Are relationships work?

[menopausemad]

What do you do when your marriage is crap and your partner truly believes that a good relationship is just good without any effort? When he thinks that you should not have to work at having a happy relationship? When he believes you do not need to make any effort to makes things work if you were truly meant to be together? This is after 20 plus years of marriage, an affair and total loss of trust and security. He does not think we should have to work to make things better? We are at an impasse.

dh - dc (with some nagging) do their own washing or run out of stuff. Actually if I am feeling kind I might put a load in for them, especially middle son who struggles with organisation. I go through phases of ignoring dh washing but then atm I work fewer hours than he does so I do most of it, that feels fair. I just hate the dirty socks and unmentionable stuff!

oh tis daft to get hung up on this when there are better things to feel lost about, I just thought I would ask as I feel like I say the same things all the time and I do know I am over sensitive right now. It is the eye rolling that really gets to me.

you didn't work fewer hours than him today - it was the weekend and you took care of the children whilst he went to play football (re: leisure) then he dumps his stuff for you to wash when he gets back. it's not daft meno - it's part of a whole picture that keeps pushing details of itself upon you - it's not a picture of much respect or consideration sadly and it does all link up.

I think you need a (caring and well meant) kick up the bum to be honest.

You've said you want to be loved by this man, but that option just isn't available. It's a form of masochism to keep wanting to achieve the impossible, so what needs unlocking in my view is: Why are you doing this? What are you afraid of, if you do something different?

Your husband is a selfish man and your sons are following his example. You're coming across like a doormat who quite literally cleans up others' shit.

Your husband could tell you he loved you from morning till night, but what would that prove? Nothing, because he doesn't mean it.

As this thread has gone on and posters have reacted to your disclosures about your husband's selfishness and entitlement (and your behaviour that enables it) you have rushed to defend him and put the blame on yourself.

I bet you've had other threads that have gone like this about this situation, if it's been going on for three years. Did they all go the same way?

The answer to this is in your hands and Lord alone knows, you need to stop vacillating and make a decision one way or the other. Either get help and get out or stay and remain this unhappy, until he finds someone else and takes the decision out of your hands. Because there is no other option, with this man and this relationship.

I love him, this is so hard. You have to bear in mind this is my side of the story...I bet he would have plenty to say about me.

I know I need to do stuff for me but I can't think what. And that makes me feel even more useless. I wish she had not changed her mind and it was all done.

I can think what.

Leave him. Find happiness within yourself and don't be at the mercy of anyone else.

Or stay with someone who doesn't love you and make the best of it.

Those are your only options.

sure he'd have things to say about you, sure you're not perfect. you don't have to be perfect to merit basic love and respect and consideration from the person you share your life with. it's not conditional on never making a mistake, never having an undesirable emotion, never struggling to cope with or get over something. it's a given.

when someone doesn't give you those things then they wouldn't even if you were perfect, felt perfectly, said the perfect thing, did the perfect thing. there's no hoop that could be jumped through to change it all.

You are right about hoops. You are right about enabling. You are right about similar threads.

What can I say? I feel very trapped. I can't think what would make me happy. I cetainly can't find happiness within me. I can't even imagine it or where to look for it.

I believe put up and shut up is the phrase. I do tick along and then I burst. Then I tick along again.

I feel like a leech who sucks up the empathy then dwells quietly acceptingly doormatly again. I know I need to work on self esteem but I am not sure I am worth it.

He knows me better than anyone, and does not like me. That by itself says it all.

no it doesn't. he's one person and not a very nice one at that by the sounds of him.

have you talked to anyone about how down you're feeling?

i have to go to bed but will be back tomorrow. please try to get conscious of how you're talking to yourself now, you control that and at the minute it's all negative and horrible and will make you feel worse and worse. just for tonight try to speak nicely to yourself and be compassionate x

But what is it about the alternative that you fear more than this desperately unhappy situation? Apart from unrequited love which is an insane pastime, what is it that is stopping you?

That's what I'm trying to get at and you don't seem to be able to address it.

Is it structural? In that you wouldn't be able to support yourself financially if you became a single woman?

Is it ideological? In that you don't want to be single, or admit that this marriage is broken and not fit for purpose?

Nothing is going to change in your life, if you keep on doing the same things.

So you'll remain unhappy, him and the family will continue to view you as a doormat, you'll carry on being needy and the kids will continue to see a horrible role model of a marriage.

He's not going to change, so if you want something different, you must.

Not structural. Some part ideological.

He is part of me. A big part. He is the only one who know so much. He knew my father. He watched me and held me give birth. He wept with me through great loss and despite loss we smiled.

I feel as though I am failing here as well charbon. I don't really have the words to answer your questions. I can see exactly why you ask, and what you think, I feel frozen. Perhaps even buried? Stuck anyway.

But through your children, he's for better or worse going to remain a part of your life.

But hopefully he will lose his power to define it.

At the moment, it seems all your self-worth is derived from him. Hence it is at zero level. He gives you no self-worth and consequently you don't feel worthy.

Remove his power to define who you are. You are a woman in your own right.

you keep describing depression meno - have you talked to a doctor or anyone about these feelings?

I came off anti depressants last year as I felt they were hindering me getting myself sorted after a couple of years on them. I want to get through this and out of this hole without.

Am using wine instead and need to stop that. Have given up giving up smoking so perhaps will stop the wine crutch. I know it would help. Watched my father die of alcohol related illness.

so other than drinking (which obviously doesn't really help it's just a way of drowning oneself and one's feelings) what have you been doing about the depression? no meds is fine if that's what you want but the alternative can't be nothing. alternatives are counselling, regular brisk exercise, challenging your thoughts and feelings along cbt type lines, keeping up social activities and things that take you out of yourself, scheduling regular pleasure giving activities, scheduling time for relaxation or meditation every day etc etc etc.

my guess is you've given up the tablets and pretended that means you're better rather than replacing them with other methods of dealing with your depression.

you're thinking is classically depressed on here, distorted, everything is your fault, your worthless, nothing can/will get any better, can't make decisions or plans or imagine solutions etc etc. you need to try and deal with the depression and get to a place where you can make these decisions and work out what you want (within the bounds of reality) - that's what you can do for you. though there may be a subconscious sabotage in that getting better will mean having to make decisions and deal with things. but hiding in depression to avoid action is not a sustainable solution. you deserve more.

did the antid's help? in what way did they hinder you? how are you dealing with your depression now?

and obviously the set of circumstances that is making you depressed is still there. it's all a bit of a vicious circle isn't it? you can't just lie down and die as a person in the middle of it x

He knows me better than anyone, and does not like me. That by itself says it all.

That isn't true at all meno. The fact that he knows you so well means he knows how to push your buttons and bring out the worst in you, to make himself feel better.

You say that you are horrible to live with, but this is because you are living with him. If you lived with someone kind and respectful I'm pretty sure you would be kind and respectful too.

It takes two to sort out a marriage and although I'm not of the 'leave the bastard' school of thought, I know from personal experience that he needs to be willing to do WHATEVER it takes to atone for his behaviour and prove both with actions and words that he loves you. If he really doesn't care enough to try harder than this, there is no hope and you must find a way out to preserve what is left of yourself and start to rebuild your own life.

If you don't feel strong enough to go it alone physically - I know that seems such a daunting prospect - then at least break away from him emotionally for now, so that your emotions and self-esteem aren't so bound up in his view of you. As Charbon says don't let him define who you are. Simply knowing that you could survive without him will make you feel stronger, then in the future you may feel able to make the move.

And I second the excellent advice re depression by swallowedafly. Might it be worth giving the ADs another go until you are able to change the circumstances that make you feel so low?

If not, then definitely try some of the other natural suggestions, but don't let this become solely about you fixing yourself. Its a good place to start, but he has to help heal the damage he has caused if he's going to continue being part of your life.

If he's not part of the solution then he's a big part of the problem.

I agree about the depression. your thinking style is essentially that of someone who is currently depressed.

Sorry - pressed post too soon. I remember a time when I felt as bad as you do. I think I'll always be vulnerable to it, but I was not that person, I was depressed.

What changed e was recovering from the depression by getting out of the situation that had lead to it, and then doing a lot of exercise, being very kind to myself, and then looking at why I had failed to seek help to change my situation sooner, and why when things went wrong I would always blame myself.

FWIW, if I felt that bad again, this time I'd try antidepressants.

Today I have thought far less about everything - no doubt because I have been really really busy at work. I know that is the key, for me, to keeping depression at bay. Exercise is also good but I am not physically very strong right now (yes another factor in everything as walking the dog is one important sanity line) so that s very limited.

He does not know quite how bad I have felt over the last few days but clearly knows/guesses something as he told me he loved me before he went to work this morning.

Oh I don't know. I just don't. I will think about the anti ds but at the moment I really really do not want to start them again (for lots of reasons some good some bad I know). I do not seem to be able to think properly now - and the tablets made it worse. I could not even read and that was a disaster as my job at the time was thinking reading and writing! I do something far less demanding of cognitive skill now and hope I can make it work. Work is very important to me. I have had two careers disappear down the drain, one many years ago when keeping it going interfered with family life and this last one due to brain failure, I know I will feel better about myself if I can make this job (it is not a career) work.

I just wish I could remember or work out what I enjoy doing. Even walking is a chore because it hurts. Reading anything worthwhile is beyond me. I need to think about it and try something.

Anyone want to tell me a joke? My sense of humour has long gone walkabout too...ask my family :(

I do feel very worthless and unlovable. I don't feel as though it is possible that he (or anyone) could love me let alone that they do.

i remember a doctor asking me to recall happy memories once and to tell them things i enjoyed doing and my mind being a complete and utter blank - i really could not think of anything. that is absolutely characteristic of depression.

the not being able to read seems more likely to be the stress and depression than antidepressants tbh which seems to be confirmed by your still having the problem off of them. depression can make it very hard to concentrate - when down i found i could only do very superficial things like the internet, watch rubbish half heartedly, play simple computer games. reading or watching something very involved was beyond me.

might be good to do some brain exercise and practice those skills - even simple things like doing a puzzle a day or something. sorry if this sounds random and off the topic. dog walking is great - could you manage maybe to drive somewhere with the dog where you can stand in one spot and let it run around? would still get the fresh air and the view and getting out but without the physical strain if you're in pain - seem to remember someone telling me they did this when they had a knee problem or something.

I do take dog to the woods and just sit. He sits too, looks at me and barks!!

I can read now but only light fiction. Trust me that is an improvement on last year!

Yes. I am very low. Life is just shit and I can't see a way out. I hear people say chuck him out but on its own that is no answer. To return to topic I just wish he would accept relationships require effort. They don't just happen. He interprets the need for effort as meaning they are useless anyway.