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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Are relationships work?

201 replies

menopausemad · 17/02/2012 20:38

What do you do when your marriage is crap and your partner truly believes that a good relationship is just good without any effort? When he thinks that you should not have to work at having a happy relationship? When he believes you do not need to make any effort to makes things work if you were truly meant to be together? This is after 20 plus years of marriage, an affair and total loss of trust and security. He does not think we should have to work to make things better? We are at an impasse.

OP posts:
swallowedAfly · 19/02/2012 11:54

i can also tell you from personal experience that the whole man gets taken back on the condition it is never mentioned again and he's not challenged or expected to address what he's done is very, very damaging for children too. they too have been betrayed, hurt, feel a complex mixture of emotions and fears that need to be addressed and supported and have time and openess to heal. i can tell you that everything in my childhood after this was fucked up lies. i felt like a silenced prisoner in some drama not of my own making and that no one gave a damn how i felt so long as i shut up and didn't rock the boat.

swallowedAfly · 19/02/2012 11:58

i never trusted my father or mother after this - i think it also effected my basic trust of what it means when someone says they love you (re: not trusting particularly that it means anything).

how are your children? please talk with them, listen to them, let them express themselves and provide them with someone else to talk to if you can't do this which may be as simple as giving them permission to talk to someone (if they feel they are not allowed, secret family business, will be in trouble if they do) or as proactive as arranging for some family counselling in which they can talk.

Original poster
menopausemad · 19/02/2012 12:45

Thanks swallowed - you are very kind to pass all this on.

The children are fairly ok - they have close family (adults) that talk to them when they cannot talk to me. Everything has always been very open, no secrets, which has huge downsides, but I hope will prevent that lack of trust. One did have some counselling and made his own choice to stop it when he had drawn what he needed form it. I think family counselling at this point would be very difficult without making them a part of the problem if that makes sense?

They absolutely know they are loved and that that love is not conditional in any way. They also have some fab relationships around them to see - and are all old enough to draw their own conclusions.

The downside of openness includes uncertainly but I think/hope this only reinforces their own desire for warm and loving relationships.

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swallowedAfly · 19/02/2012 13:21

glad they're ok meno. yes it's bound to be upsetting but i honestly think that honesty and it being ok for them to show their feelings, say what they need to etc cushions a lot of the damage. if you can see that is true for them how come it doesn't apply to you? Wink

swallowedAfly · 19/02/2012 13:21

you've identified they need to know absolutely that they are loved and if needed have had counselling and lots of help to still trust. don't you need just the same?

Singlebedplease · 19/02/2012 13:33

If he has cheated he should be bending over backwards to show you he can be trusted

Not behaving in an arrogant 'you need to get over it' way IMO

Original poster
menopausemad · 19/02/2012 15:11

He has said sorry. He should not have to pay penance for life. I am so confused.

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OriginalJamie · 19/02/2012 15:21

Well It's interesting that he should call it penance. Id say that the issue is that you, currently are not happy. As your life partner, he should be willing to do what it takes to help you become happy, and in this case, that involves getting some counselling together. Making an effort is not penance.

OriginalJamie · 19/02/2012 15:22

I really wish WWIFN was on here. She used to say exactly the right things

kodachrome · 19/02/2012 15:22

Saying sorry doesn't really cut it. We're not talking about penance for life, we're talking about dealing with what happened properly - allowing you to be angry, allowing you to be upset, helping you heal.

OriginalJamie · 19/02/2012 15:24

Yes, this is the real issue. He can't listen to you having normal emotions. That's bloody immature, actually

Singlebedplease · 19/02/2012 15:26

I remeber watching an episode of 'Dr Phil' the relationship guy about cheating partners and several of the men had the attitude that they has 'said' sorry so as far as they were concerned it was all over.

He said that whilst they shouldnt be punished every day by their partner, in order to get forgiveness they had to make their wife the priority from now on, and SHOW how they felt, not just say it

Original poster
menopausemad · 19/02/2012 15:30

I used the word penance. I think I am dragging it on and should be over it. I just don't know if I can. I do not feel adequate let alone attractive.

OP posts:
Original poster
menopausemad · 19/02/2012 15:33

I don't feel loved and I dont feel worth loving. He will only say he loves me if I am upset never just for saying it. He did not tell me he loves me on valentines day. I have said I need to hear it a lot to try and believe it.

OP posts:
kodachrome · 19/02/2012 15:40

How long has he been back in the home?

Your feelings are valid. Of course you don't feel loved if the only way you can drag the words out of him is to be upset. Of course you don't feel loved when he cheated on you and left, and only returned after the OW dumped him.

Original poster
menopausemad · 19/02/2012 15:52

Years. Three. I am ashamed.

I know I should do more to improve my life.

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Singlebedplease · 19/02/2012 15:58

I think it will be very hard for you to forgive and move on when you are reminded daily of how you should be feeling

There is no time limit on these feelings

Singlebedplease · 19/02/2012 15:58

Could you talk to someone on your own?

kodachrome · 19/02/2012 16:10

I don't think you have anything to be ashamed of, 'though.

If he has been disengaged emotionally all this time and you have been on the back-foot trying to get him to show he cares, it's no wonder you feel unlovable and your self-esteem is through the floor. You're locked into a loop, stuck.

You shouldn't do another four years of this 'though.

You really can move on in some way, and (sorry to go on about it) counselling could really be a way forward, just for you at this point in time.

Original poster
menopausemad · 19/02/2012 18:03

Ok while I am in checking things out mode. Is it disrespectful to leave shit in the loo for someone else (me) to clean up? And at what age should youngsters clean up after themselves. Wee all around and shit under seat.

And, rolling eyes and sighing when you try and say how you feel? Does there come a point when that is acceptable? I have been at home (trying to work from home) for a long while but I do think he could put his football gear in washing?

It all makes me feel of so little consequence but am I over reacting because of me, how I feel about me?

OP posts:
OriginalJamie · 19/02/2012 18:11

Nope, none of that acceptable. And if their father speaks or reacts to you in a dismissive way it's not very surprising if the DCs start to.

I have 2 DCs, age 8 and 11 and they clean the wee and poo from the toilet. Have been doing that for over a year (should have made them do it sooner). I use the toilet duck system - little paper squares impregnated with toilet cleaner which clip into a stick, and then you flush it a way. They can wipe the seat with wet wipes

Original poster
menopausemad · 19/02/2012 18:13

Oh and single, we are halfway through some decorating and if I do nit start it he won't.

OP posts:
swallowedAfly · 19/02/2012 18:15

only have one ds - he is 4 and doesn't get wee or poo over the toilet so i'm not sure why older children should.

OriginalJamie · 19/02/2012 18:17

swallowed - that's true, actually. We get the odd skiddy but nothing terrible

swallowedAfly · 19/02/2012 18:20

having said that i'm well aware there are grown men out there who pee all over the seat - somehow i don't think that's necessary though but just a symptom of zero respect for the home and the person who takes care of it.

who didn't put the football kit in the wash - dh or dc?