DH can't and won't cook and won't do housework. AIBU?

[cantcookandwont]

Sorry this may be long.....

DH and me been married 25 years and DCs just left home. For all of our marriage my career has taken 2nd place because no matter how far I got with it, I'd never have earned what DH did- so I always worked p/t and did 90% housework & 100% cooking. I did find this hard because up to when I married at 30, I'd been a professional independent woman.

Now though I have launched a new freelance career which is notoriously competitive. It's still part time and I work from home. I DO have work that pays (I am earning around £1200 a month for us) but in addition I am generating contacts and trying to get work, so I can do as much or as little of that as I want. On an average week I probably work 3 full days spread over 5 days, but sometimes it's more than that. DH works longer hours- 8-7pm, travels both UK and overseas.

I still expect to do most of the domestic stuff BUT now that we are on our own I anticipated him doing more. He does nothing. He does no housework and no cooking or planning of meals. I feel as if I am his servant. I am not fanatical about housework- I maybe do 1-2 hrs a day which is a quick hoover downstairs, doing the dishwasher, loading the washer and pegging out, mopping the kitchen floor 2-3 times weekly, and the bathrooms 1-2 times a week -plus cooking a meal from scratch. I have now stopped ironing his shirts.

My biggest bugbear is how I have to plan, shop and cook everything. I have asked him until I am blue in the face to cook one meal at a weekend ( it could even be a semi-ready meal) but he never does- it's always "Next week I'll do it". He doesn't offer to take me out for a meal- I have dresses that are unworn because we rarely go out and if we do I have to suggest it.

Apart from wheeling out the bin, and any necessary DIY, he does nothing. A couple of weeks ago I suggested we had a list of household chores - 75% mine and the rest his. He just laughed and said it was ridiculous.

I don't know if I am being unreasonable. I don't see cleaning up muck as "my role" any more- we both make it and should both clear it up. But given his hours of work I wonder if IABU? And I can't afford, or want, a cleaner.

Any ideas?

He likes it the way it is. He doesn't want to change it. It suits him. When alot of men say they can't cook, they can, they just don't want to make the effort. Same goes for ironing.....Get the partner to do as much as you can.

It's not 'just' about the housework. People are conditioned to think that housework is a petty thing, but housework is a BIG thing. Without it we would starve, have no clean clothes, and get sick. The nature of the work means it is never finished.

Try doing none of it and see what happens to your life. Do it for a week and you'd be ok though you'd have to eat out/get takeaways and you might smell a bit ripe. Do it for a year and you would end up in hospital. The state of someone's house is often used as a marker of their mental health. Many people are overly concerned about perfection in their homes, but that doesn't mean that housework is unimportant. There is a minimum standard required to preserve health and social functioning and the absence of it has big consequences.

Getting upset about housework is not an over-reaction or symptomatic of anything deeper (though it can be), it is a justifiable reaction to being unhappy about something that affects all of our lives to a surprisingly large degree.

Hardoing - you answered my own point earlier by saying that you would get a cleaner in. Nothing wrong with that - ideal solution. The OP's H doesn't think he should; just that his wife should do it.

''If the DH lived on his own, he'd have to do all of it and his workload would increase. If the DW lived on HER own, however, her workload would drop dramatically and she'd still be financially independent. I think that's quite telling about the fairness in this relationship.''

From what the OP has said, I don't think she would have less to do if she were by herself. She cooks from scratch due to allergies, hoovers and mops daily 'because of the nature of the floor,' dusts skin flakes, cleans bathroom floors frequently, scrubs the bath and shower several times a week.
What would change is that the annoying things her DH does which make extra work - trailing mud, leaving plates on side - wouldn't be there.
But these are the sort of things we train our DCs not to do, aren't they?
My DH is another one who works long hours and travels a lot - but he wouldn't leave his plate on the table as wiping and rinsing your own plate and putting it in tbe dishwasher is just part of what everyone in the family is expected to do, like putting your own shoes/school bag away, hanging up your coat etc. still waiting for success on thise but we live in hope

I think the OP would find a difference if she could get her DH to see that, rather than expecting him to do x amount of housework, it would behove him to do these basic bits of picking up after himself - otherwise he's acting as if tbere are servants in the house.

I don't expect my DH to pull his weight with actual housework, apart from occasional jobs I struggle with because of back problems, but that's different from expecting him to behave like an adult and be conscious of his own mess and not make extra for someone else to deal with.
< Tries not to think about the clothes draped over the end of the bed >

Oh, and Flylady 'swish and swipe' is the way to go with bathrooms.

And make his life as easy as possible.

Gosh, he does sound like a bit of a slob.

Can you ask him to clean after himself rather than treating him like a non-potty trained puppy?

Can you just ask him to put his breakfast dishes away? Mop after making print on carpet etc?

cantcookandwont said:

"My reasons for leaving were linked very much to what is happening now- his lack of engagement in our relationship- using me as a backdrop for his own successful career., but never showing any appreciation of me. Never thinking much about birthday and Xmas presents, never taking me out, never making a fuss over me, never spending any time planning holidays unless brought it up and I micro managed the whole thing, never having anything to offer in terms of conversation- dinner, TV then bed each night- no shared goals or dreams for our future, despite being able- once retired- to have plenty of money to do all sorts of things.

He was always a very good father to the kids- put time into them etc etc-but I felt neglected"

A bit of help with the cooking and cleaning is NOT going to fix all the above.

3littlefrogs I have told him. I have made it very very clear. It is as if he only has so much energy but it all goes on work. I am being honest- I don't know if I want to stay with him. I want us to have some shared goals and aims for the next phase of our lives. Cooking and looking after the home together are a tiny part of that, but they would make me feel we are a team- instead of me being a drudge and him bringing home the bacon.

The other point is we are not awash with money. We have a decent income but we do have a mortgage still and we live in a very expensive part of the country. There is not a huge amount left over each month, and we live quite simply.

I'm sorry- my posts keep crossing with others, so excuse me if I keep coming back to things you have all suggested.

This is such a good reason for A, Women to keep their own identity when raising children and B, Men to be expected to share boring household stuff all through the marriage.
What would he do if he didnt have you?Starve?Wear dirty clothes?He is being an arse,dont put up with it.

OP: I understand, I really do. Please read Wifework if you already haven't and you will see that others understand too. In my case, I tried and tried to explain to DH about the mental stress of it, the thinking about food, bills, pirate costumes, birthday party invitations, insurance, dinner money etc... on top of working that killed me. It was the fact that he could not and would not change behaviours which were causing me a lot of stress, even when he admitted that I was right and that it wouldn?t kill him to do his far share. Partly it boiled down to a lack of respect for those tasks and complete ignorance of how things quickly fall apart when they stop being done. DH?s stock responses were also lower your standards, get a cleaner and so on. I did and I did and that was the point. I then had to remember to pay the cleaner, leave out the stuff that needed ironing etc... All small things, but the in the scheme of a busy life, maddening. We took drastic measures in the end to sort things out and we are ok now, but it wasn?t fun for a while. It?s a simple matter of justice and respect for me.

I agree with you.

The things you mention are fundamental to a lasting relationship and a shared future.

Maybe if he helped with cooking and cleaning it might make a difference, but it might not - you might find that the rest of it doesn't change.

Shotgun You are exaggerating a little here- From what the OP has said, I don't think she would have less to do if she were by herself. She cooks from scratch due to allergies, hoovers and mops daily 'because of the nature of the floor,' dusts skin flakes, cleans bathroom floors frequently, scrubs the bath and shower several times a week.

I squirt bath cleaner round the bath 2-3 times a week ( mainly as I use the bath- he showers) and the basin, and give the loo a quick wipe over. I have said at least twice that I clean the bathroom floor no more than once week if that.

This is not OTT- I have friends who clean them after every single use, and who hoover and dust the whole house daily.

It's not about the housework.

But, accept that there are ways you can make that easier for yourself. And it is something you can take out of the equation. Get a cleaner. Get a firm that sends 3-5 people out in one go so that in 30 minutes the house is done and they are not in your way. Get a monthly meal planner going, with shopping lists online for each weekly shop. That also takes the sting out of deciding what to cook/buy.

For the washing - stop doing his. Until he notices, or thanks for you doing it.

And get thee some counselling - couples and for you. Why are you putting up with this?

You've kind of proved my point - the bath-cleaning is bexause you have a bath, yes? (See Flylady on that one - not difficult to run a sponge around when you're getting dried). As for the rest - they're all about how you choose to clean your home. I suspect you'd still do all of the above if your DH wasn't there (well, he frequently isn't), but what seems to cause extra labour is him not picking up after himself, as any adult should, whether there's a non-working or part-time working partner at home or not.
Train train train!

Do you have a laugh together OP? Do you think, "oh I can't wait until DH gets home to tell him this/see what he thinks of this"? Do you exchange a look that can convey mutual thoughts without having to say anything? Do you talk about all the traveling/things you will do together once retired?

DH and I are not even 40 yet, but we talk about where we would like to go around the world when we retire. DH says, "Oh the traveling we'' do Knickerless".

If the answer is no to all of these, I don't see any point to this relationship.

"Oh the traveling we will do Knickerless". ffs

Yes I keep mentioning it because it really doesn't sound as though you love him, that's why. The line that really made me think that, was earlier in your thread, when you mentioned his skin scaling and the dust his body produced. Later on, this seemed to be less about housework and more about his personality which at his age (assuming he's 50+) is unlikely to change.

And it doesn't sound as though he loves you either. If he did, he would have changed what was possible to change. Maybe you read too much into him being a mess when you left? Maybe that wasn't love, but fear of being on his own and having to do everything himself? Dependancy, not love.

I'm just going on your posts. I'm not saying I'm right, but several posters are saying this doesn't seem to be about housework and points to deeper troubles.

Would it frighten you to admit you don't love eachother anymore? Especially the bit about him not loving you? I can imagine it would and it would be understandable. But sometimes the thing that frightens us most is the thing we most need to confront.

If there's only the two of you, how much actual "housework" is there?
There can't be very much at all, I'd say I do less than 1 hour a week and the house is clean and tidy.
There are me and DH at home , I work 16 hours a week (weekdays), DH is out of the house from 7am - 6pm ( weekdays) - I do the cooking Mon/Weds/Thurs because I'm at home in the afternoon , Tues and Fri, DH cooks as he's in a good half hour before me, he wouldn't dream of sitting there waiting for me to come in and cook - we share the cooking at weekends, he probably does more than me because he likes to bake, he also cleans the loo/bath if it needs it and cleans the kitchen when he's been cooking or baking, he'll run the hoover round too.
If he leaves a mess (wet towels on the bed) I pick it up, if I leave a mess, he'll clean up after me - it's what happens when you are a team.
We do the food shopping together at the weekend.

1-2 hours of domestic work a day is fanatical when there are only 2 adults in a house! If I hoovered , mopped, cleaned kitchen and bathroom it would only take me an hour at most.

In answer to your initial question, no it is not fair that you do 100%.

But this:

this is not going to be solved by getting a cleaner, lowering your standards or even by him cooking a meal every now and then.

Has he always been like this, or was he once more considerate? If this is how its always been then, honestly, its not going to change. If he was once more considerate of you, then yes he could change but either doesn't understand the problem or likes having a handy housekeeper/backdrop whose needs he doesn't have to consider.

Sorry it's a tough one. You know what you want (him to change). What do you want if he won't?

You have enabled him to do nothing he doesn't want to do. so he manages to spend time keeping fit etc at the weekend. lucky him.
You sound like his housekeeper . STOP!!!

Jenny60 Thank you! It's the juggling. I work, but I also micro and macro manage everything else. All he does is go to work. Yes, it's a demanding job but he loves it. It is not stressful as he is in control and he loves the job. The travelling is tiring but he likes what he does when he gets there! he has been with the company for 30 years.

Meanwhile, I have now re-trained and am on my 3rd career. I relocated when we married, gave up my friends you could say, was a SAHM, then a p/t employee, then went S/e and am now doing something new. On top of all of this, he has had my constant support as a wife, a mother to his kids, and yes, I've had financial security.

He would be pushed to have the life he has without me. When I was away, he lived on ready meals ( very healthy) or my DS cooked for him, and realised how much time it takes just to do the bare minimum of looking after yourself- washing, ironing, changing the bed, tiny bit of cleaning.

He says constantly that he loves me and doesn't want to lose me- but in my own mind I am putting a time limit on it all and seeing if he will behave differently.

it's not just about housework and cooking- it's about sharing- and cooking meal together- rather than him being somewhere else in the house ane me calling "Dinners' ready!" is part of it.

The other thing is, that to cook and eat healthy food, you have to care and put thought and energy into meals. I would not go as far as saying "every meal is an act of love" but it is about nurturing someone and doing your best.

How does your DH feel about your business? Is he supportive, does he show respect for what you are doing? Is he understanding if you have a deadline and can't do the domestic stuff?

I'm just wondering if he is lacking in this department and the domestic chores aspect is rubbing it a bit?

I do think that perhaps you need to ask/tell him what you need help with a bit more though. I realise it's a pita but sadly a lot of men seem to need this.

Sounds like you feel as if you're nothing more than his housekeeper who is told 'I love you'. Does he ever say - "Look, I'll do that. You're tired."?

OP, I have some of the same issues so believe me, I sympathise. I too have to manage the expectation that I will be the one to decide on what we eat each night, and (almost always) cook it. If I stopped trying to keep things reasonably tidy, if not squeaky clean, DP would happily allow the house to reach municipal dump-style conditions because, like your DH, he just does not/will not see any problem.

I'm wondering how you envisage things might be when he retires and you're still working. Will he expect you to carry on shouldering responsibility for all this even if, for example, he's been relaxing at home all day while you work? Because that's no fun at all. And IMHO you can't let that situation develop from the already very unsatisfactory one.

It's all very well saying 'I love you' but love is a verb - something you do not just feel. The words mean nothing if there are no actions to prove it.

As you say, making a meal together as a team would be something to prove his feelings, arranging the odd night out, thinking about a holiday you could take - or maybe he thinks he's proving it by focusing on his work, thinking about the future he sees that providing?
Try asking him to point out the ways he shows you he loves you - think about it yourself. You sound as if you need convincing, so why not ask him about it?

I would stop with the 'meals are an act of love' stuff really, I think doing things together, listening, sharing ideas and dreams, curling up on the TV can all be loving. I hate cooking, so on weekends, we eat out a lot or get in ready-made food. I think some evenings out/cinema/doing activities together would improve things a lot. But you seem very set on what they have to be, i.e. he has to do what you do to show love (cook meal from scratch). I would try to find out other ways he can show you love, ones he actually enjoys too.

Sorry to sound unsympathetic, but he's not going to turn into you. But I think you are right to want more from, more appreciation, more demonstrations of love, more affection, I just don't think they are going to come in the form of housework tbh.

And you do sound quite unappreciative of him financially supporting you which is a massive big deal which allowed you to be a SAHM and then work part-time (which presumably you did want), saying he loves it anyway etc. Perhaps you both feel unappreciated.

I really think talking this through with someone could help. It's hard to renegotiate all this stuff after 25 years, and it sounds like neither of you really appreciates the other's point of view or contribution at the moment, and perhaps that would be a starting point.