DH can't and won't cook and won't do housework. AIBU?

[cantcookandwont]

Sorry this may be long.....

DH and me been married 25 years and DCs just left home. For all of our marriage my career has taken 2nd place because no matter how far I got with it, I'd never have earned what DH did- so I always worked p/t and did 90% housework & 100% cooking. I did find this hard because up to when I married at 30, I'd been a professional independent woman.

Now though I have launched a new freelance career which is notoriously competitive. It's still part time and I work from home. I DO have work that pays (I am earning around £1200 a month for us) but in addition I am generating contacts and trying to get work, so I can do as much or as little of that as I want. On an average week I probably work 3 full days spread over 5 days, but sometimes it's more than that. DH works longer hours- 8-7pm, travels both UK and overseas.

I still expect to do most of the domestic stuff BUT now that we are on our own I anticipated him doing more. He does nothing. He does no housework and no cooking or planning of meals. I feel as if I am his servant. I am not fanatical about housework- I maybe do 1-2 hrs a day which is a quick hoover downstairs, doing the dishwasher, loading the washer and pegging out, mopping the kitchen floor 2-3 times weekly, and the bathrooms 1-2 times a week -plus cooking a meal from scratch. I have now stopped ironing his shirts.

My biggest bugbear is how I have to plan, shop and cook everything. I have asked him until I am blue in the face to cook one meal at a weekend ( it could even be a semi-ready meal) but he never does- it's always "Next week I'll do it". He doesn't offer to take me out for a meal- I have dresses that are unworn because we rarely go out and if we do I have to suggest it.

Apart from wheeling out the bin, and any necessary DIY, he does nothing. A couple of weeks ago I suggested we had a list of household chores - 75% mine and the rest his. He just laughed and said it was ridiculous.

I don't know if I am being unreasonable. I don't see cleaning up muck as "my role" any more- we both make it and should both clear it up. But given his hours of work I wonder if IABU? And I can't afford, or want, a cleaner.

Any ideas?

[cestlavielife]

shower in muck not in much

[bibbitybobbityhat]

Dear Lord, a man who never cooks and never comes up with meal ideas or shops - how deeply unattractive that is.

My dh works long and erratic hours (but puts dirty dishes in the dishwasher after I have cooked) helps me if I am hanging washing out, will put hoover round if I ask him, and cooks at least once a week. I detest housework - we have a cleaner, it is honestly well worth it. Oh and I don't work at all.

OP has been doing all this for 25 years, 25 YEARS people, and yet still some of you think she should cheerfully do it all because her husband works longer hours than her.

Utter bollocks.

[sunshineandbooks]

On threads of this sort we often see women encouraged to 'lower their standards'. What does that mean, exactly?

If the OP's DH says she's placing unreasonable demands on him because her standards are too high, what do you think he would suggest gets lowered? You can bet you last £ that it won't be his meals being cooked, the shopping being thought about, planned and done, or his laundry being taken care of. No, it will the things that affect his wife that will be lowered (e.g. you can live in a less clean home. I'm not here to see it much so it doesn't bother me and it's irrelevant to me that it bothers you). Which basically says that the domestic arrangements that affect him are more important than any that affect her, even though she is the one doing 100% of them all.

If you invited a family member round for dinner and you knew they didn't like fish, would you cook a fish dish? No, you wouldn't, because even though you like fish and would prefer it, that family member's wants and needs are important to you. Housework is no different. Why does it always have to be the woman compromising by doing less, lowering her standards, etc. If the DH doesn't want to do it all himself, fair enough, but in that case HE should find a way to put a plan in action that meets his end of the responsibility, by paying for, and organising HIMSELF, a cleaner to come in, for example.

If the DH lived on his own, he'd have to do all of it and his workload would increase. If the DW lived on HER own, however, her workload would drop dramatically and she'd still be financially independent. I think that's quite telling about the fairness in this relationship.

[3littlefrogs]

People have made lots of helpful suggestions as to how you can reduce the amount of cooking and cleaning.

You are ignoring them because the cleaning is a symptom, not the disease.

I think the bottom line is that you are unhappy in your marriage for a host of reasons.

Maybe it would be better all round if you separate, sell the house and have a small flat each.

[ISayHolmes]

The fact that you left him for two months and he has made no effort to improve on the things that caused you to leave makes me question just how much he cares that this bothers you. Especially since he promised to try and improve on things..it comes across as him just settling back into the routine now that you've come back and not intending to change at all- you've returned, why bother?

[bibbitybobbityhat]

[Devora]

OP, there are some very strange posts on this thread. You are NOT being unreasonable.

[YuleingFanjo]

Are you washing and ironing his shirts? Stop.

tell him you are stopping and stick to it.

I did this and now DH irons and washes his own things.

[LtEveDallas]

It's the cooking that gets me down- not the actual cooking itself but the responsibility of always having to think what to have ...and never having a night off

If you have to cook fresh every night - Meal Plan.

Give yourself a 14 day schedule - On Monday its Spag Bol, on Tue its Sausage and Mash, on Wednesday it's Chicken Curry...etc. You could buy a weeks worth of ingredients and know every morning what you are having the next day.

Get a Slow Cooker. Bung all the ingredients in and leave it all day.

Batch cook at the weekend, freeze down and take out the night before.

Choose simple meals - either stuff you can bung in a wok all together or things like Cottage Pie - One pot meals.

I do however think you are over-anxious about 'dirt'. The world will not fall apart if you don't clean every day. Can you not see from many of the posts here that maybe you are expecting too much? Can you see that maybe your standards are set a bit too high? When you get the same comments from lots of people it is time to examine the possibility that you may not be right.

I cannot help but think this is about far far more than cooking and cleaning. But if that is all it is, then there really is a simple solution. You said I do ask him to help- I'll say "Please help me change the bed" or "Please hoover the stairs". He does it without quibbling but my point is that I am micro-managing it all. He doesn't see what needs doing. The important part there is he does it without quibbling. So just keep asking to do certain jobs - why is that hard? His standards are obviously set lower than yours, so no, he doesn't see it. If you want him to have your standards then you will have to point them out, or carry on fuming about this.

[bakingaddict]

Cook for yourself and do your own laundry, leave him to his own devices and get in a cleaner so you dont have to go in a manky loo

If he's never had to do it before I dont think he's going to start after 25yrs unless he has some kind of short-sharp-shock treatment. Men are like dogs in this respect they need training from the off

[3littlefrogs]

Could he reduce his hours so that he is at home more to help?

More importantly, if he reduced his hours, would he help, and would the drop in income be worth it?

Would you want him to be at home more?

These are very important questions.

[didldidi]

I agree with 3LF - the cleaning is probably a way of trying to control the situation and who in God's name has a pale wood floor in the hall? asking for trouble. I think nothing of collecting all the breakfast/dinner stuff as I take mine to the kitchen and automatically swish round the sink after hubby/kids stubble/toothpase in two seconds as I clean my teeth. That's because we have a good relationship.

[cantcookandwont]

This is funny.

My house is not overly clean. My friend laughs at me because my standards are lower than hers- it's joke we are good friends. I can run my fingers through dust in any room. I do have a minimum standard for kitchens and bathrooms, which are far from excessive- I do far less cleaning than my mother ever did or does in her 80s! Our kitchen is at the front of the house so gets a lot of wear and tear and traffic through it.

Anyway- why am I defending myself?

I asked a simple question. AIBU to be taking on 100% of the domestic chores and cooking, when I also work?

And my work is erratic. I have had occasions when I've had deadlines and have had to work a 15 hr day. It varies.

My one compromise is that I internet food shop. That saves me 2 hours a week almost in travelling and shopping time.

I hope some of you understand- it's not the actual cleaning that is the issue- it's the fact that in 2012 I am a professional woman with a job, and yet DH expects the whole domestic side of our marriage to be looked after by me.

I don't expect him to dust or hoover or anything during the week. I'd like him to so something at a weekend, and cook maybe once or twice a week.

I have asked him many, many times- and got nowhere. He says he is trying to change and is terrified I leave him, again- but seems unable to appreciate what he ought to do.

[Hardgoing]

Sunshineandbooks, it's not always about husbands lowering their standards, I am a woman and have lowered my domestic standards as I have more interesting things to do than spend 1-2 hours a day on housework when there are no children around. It doesn't sound like the DH does nothing, he just doesn't do them to the satisfaction of his wife. I don't stack the dishwasher every morning, I often leave cups and dishes around, I wouldn't want another adult telling me before I did my 11 hour day I should do lots of cleaning. So what if he puts them away later, or takes the bin out and leaves a bit of mud on the floor? I cut corners and accept lower standards. If my husband came in and started making me keep the house to a very high standard when I worked full-time, or cook every meal from scratch (we have a lot of cold meat and salads in our house!) I'd tell him where to go.

I don't think this is about housework, it's about the husband's lack of interest in his wife per se. I don't think the relationship would be improved if he suddenly started meal planning (what is that anyway, I've never planned a meal in my life!)

If I were him, and earning that much money, I would sure as heck get a cleaner and not expect my wife who is also working now to do everything or be superwoman. But surely the point of everyone working is to have a better quality of life, not to spend it all shopping in tescos and dusting imaginary dust (how can be shedding skin on a daily basis when he is not even there a few days a week).

[Hattytown]

I agree with you sunshine but I think some women have real difficulty assessing what this behaviour really means i.e a lack of love.

However I don't get the impression that it's a one-sided lack of love in this OP's marriage.

[Truckulentagain]

Can you as ask him to reduce his hours?

Life changes. The children have left, you've started a career he doesn't need to be the bread-winner anymore.

He might find he likes cooking. Not sure he'll enjoy cleaning.

Put it to him he can ease up on the career.

[cantcookandwont]

3frogs the answer to all of that is no! He cannot reduce his hours- he has a senior managerial role- and will most likely retire in 5years. That is why I am trying to renegotiate because I will carry on working I think, and do not want to be full of resentment later on.

[didldidi]

What other reasons were there for leaving last time?

[didldidi]

and I think it's too late for the resentment...

[cantcookandwont]

Sorry- but as said above his job is not negotiable. It's the job- a package- and it involves travel overseas and the UK. It is also a final salary pension job and we stand to get a nice pension & big lump sum based on his final 2 years earnings- so it would be madness to give it up- and he loves his job anyway.

[3littlefrogs]

My DH works 80 hours a week, as I said earlier.

I work 4 days and do the bulk of the domestic stuff.

I wouldn't want to do his job, it is very tough and stressful.

The thing is, though, if the roles were reversed, he would more than pull his weight, as I do, because we love each other, and we are a team.

This is why I am saying that it isn't the cleaning, the cooking, or the division of labour that is your problem. It is a convenient hook upon which to hang the fact that you don't seem to love or care for each other.

There is so much resentment coming through that goes back years and years.

It is sad, but not all relationships work, not all marriages last for ever, and I just wonder whether you need to face the fact that their are deeper issues than those that you have posted about here.

[cantcookandwont]

My reasons for leaving were linked very much to what is happening now- his lack of engagement in our relationship- using me as a backdrop for his own successful career., but never showing any appreciation of me. Never thinking much about birthday and Xmas presents, never taking me out, never making a fuss over me, never spending any time planning holidays unless brought it up and I micro managed the whole thing, never having anything to offer in terms of conversation- dinner, TV then bed each night- no shared goals or dreams for our future, despite being able- once retired- to have plenty of money to do all sorts of things.

He was always a very good father to the kids- put time into them etc etc-but I felt neglected.

[ISayHolmes]

"I have asked him many, many times- and got nowhere. He says he is trying to change and is terrified I leave him, again- but seems unable to appreciate what he ought to do."

What is he doing that indicates he is trying to change? Could he specify anything? It's depressing that he is afraid of you leaving but can't do any of the things you ask (I mean, cooking a meal occasionally or cleaning something of his own volition is not a lot to ask, and would indicate effort).

[3littlefrogs]

So there you have it - the real problem.

Have you told him this?

Because if you don't tell him what you have just written, and only make it about the cleaning, he isn't going to understand what is really wrong.

[cantcookandwont]

Hatty you have mentioned a few times that you think I don't love him. I do love him, but I don't want to spend my next 30 years like this.

He says he loves me and was in a real mess when I left. I have tried to cut him some slack due to his being ill, but I see him slipping back to his old ways. The point is, I am not asking him to do much. I have told him very clearly how cooking once at a weekend would make a huge difference to me- so he is actually engaged in our marriage in a way.