first time domestic violence advice wanted

[J4J]

Should he stay or leave? I am so confused. I am married to a usually loving husband and have 4 small children. 2 days ago he became unusually angry and punched me in the face - I was knocked unconscious. It happened in front of all the children. When I came round my 4 year old daughter was holding me and crying shouting wake up. When I looked at her her first words were 'oh mummy I thought you were dead'. This is out of character for my husband. He was initially in denial and told me to get off the floor and stop pretending. It was not until my dad phoned him at work the following day and told him I was in hospital getting x-rayed that I think he realised what he did. This is a first offence so the police after arresting him when he got back from work released him with a caution. Do I let him stay in the house now. Part of me still loves him very much and another part of me is completely shocked and upset. I am really hurting inside and want things just to be normal. Statistically it may happen again but I'm not sure it will as he is a good man who needs to manage his anger but yet he knocked me out....

good luck with doctors - is there any chance of extra support from SS in view of your own health issues? GP could call them to ask for short term additional help in the home? or sure start/home start volunteers?

the police are a joke, really aren't they. They released him on a caution because it was a first offence? W.T.F? He could have seriously damaged you. Would being a "first offence" have made that okay then?

I've sent you a pm J. Go to the doc and see if waterlego can give you a hand for the next few days. (sorry WL for volunteering your help).

Oh J4J :(

Hi J4J

I can't tell you how sad I am to read that are simply, witht he exception of Waterlego, being failed by everyone who should have your back at this stage. Having said that, I have so much admiration for you in standing firm, even if it's hard work at times (which it sounds like it is at the moment).

Please disregard anything your H says his therapist has said. If you canot trust him not to knock you unconscious, you cannot trust him to tell you the truth.

I agree with izzy who suggested that you might be able to ask waterlego to act as a kind of spokesperson for you, someone who might be able to focus the attentions of those agencies who are supposed to be helping and supporting you.

I too would distance yourself completely from your H, his parents and (sadly) your parents. None of them have any business in your life unless they are ALL able to acknowledge and accept that your H's behaviour was INEXCUSABLE, COMPLETELY UNJUSTIFIABLE AND TOTALLY UNRELATED TO YOUR BEHAVIOUR OR MARRIAGE ISSUES.

Until they can all admit that and apologise profusely to you for ever suggesting you might be at fault, then they are toxic to you and your recovery and should be kept well away.

I would also reiterate laying down the law about contact with your children (at YOUR convenience, not your H's) and I would also seriously consider changing your number and only giving the new one to your actual friends (and not to your family, H's family, or H himself)

You can keep the old one and tell H that you will check it once a day for messages regarding contact. If he doesn't wish to call, he can email.

His continued contact with you, and drip-feeding suggestive ideas about what his therapist "said" is simply another (albeit more remote) form of emotional abuse. He is doing whatever he can to undermine you and the experience he put you through. PLEASE DON'T LET HIM

(Phew. Sorry, that was quite long. Hope you got through it!)

Awful at the doctors. I think it is because he got there first. I saw our family doctor - the only female at the practise. He already has been to her to get his referral to a psychiatrist. She told me that H had said that I had slapped him a few times before he punched me and that I had hit him in the past. I did hit him a couple of years ago upstairs in the spare bedroom of his mum's house. Can't remember what it was about now but he didn't lash out then. I felt accused. She doesn't think I need counselling for myself - even though I said I can't sleep and think I need to be heard by a professional. She does think family therapy is a better idea as she sees us as a family unit but he needs to agree to it and find a suitable place locally before the referral letter is sent. She was very neutral which has left me feeling rubbish as wanted her to be more with me on this. I did feel that she took the line - i hit him so justifiably he hit me'. Maybe this is just my perception at the moment. I am phoning H at 5pm to tell him this (when he comes out of a meeting).

PLEASE DON'T CALL YOUR H UNTIL YOU'VE HAD SOME OTHER PERSPECTIVES!!!

Sorry to shout, but you are being fed a line by a woman who doesn't know you and has been "got to" by your H before you had a chance to tell your story and put your side across.

Please, please, please, do not speak to your H until you've collected your thoughts and processed the conversation with your doctor. Speak to waterlego, us, anyone who can give you an objective perspective.

Oh J this is awful, absolutely awful. So sad for you.

He is manipulating and maltreating you through turning everyone against you, because he can't get at you with his fists.

You are being abused.

You need someone to advocate for you, it seems like everyone is against you at this point - for your GP to be like this beggars belief. Can you get an appointment with another doctor at that practice and reqest/demand a referral?

What will phoning your H achieve for you at this moment? Do you need to talk to him? Can you not just refuse to go to family therapy and continue to seek help for yourself?

I worry that he will attack you over the phone, and make you feel more unhappy and alone and muddled.
His long term goal is to get you back, not make you happier.

I'm going to shout to: DO NOT CALL YOUR H TONIGHT - or at any time that you do not feel that you are in a position of power and strength.

What you VERY DEFINITELY DO NOT NEED AND SHOULD NOT ENTERTAIN ANY THOUGHT OF IS FAMILY THERAPY.

Your GP is speaking out of her arse not an experienced domestic violence counsellor or advisor.

Shock can take time to manifest and I suspect that the shock of him punching you unconscious is only now impacting physically on you.

It's entirely understandable that you feel tired and drained and I suggest that you hole up with the dc for the weekend with only trusted individuals such as waterlego being allowed in your home.

If that means your h doesn't get to see the dc, tough! He gave up his right to dictate terms when he abused you in front of them.

You've been badly let down by the 'system' and undermined by family members and you need to spend the weekend on mumsnet rest, regroup, and gather your energy for the week ahead.

We'll get you through this, honey - it'll be one day and one step at a time but you will come out the other end whole and strong and ready to take on the world.

J, change your doc. If you can change surgery all the better. Anyone who thinks a man can punch a woman in the face and knock her out in front of the kids -even if she slapped him first - needs to fill shelves in Sainsbury's and not be in a position of authority or respect.

DO NOT PHONE H. Do not tell him what the doc said. Do not speak to him at all.

Find a solicitor in a practice, not at CAB, unless you hear from the current one on Monday morning. Phone ASAP and leave an urgent message.

Takes the kids somewhere nice/different for a day out. Get yourselves refreshed and do something different.

Gosh, your situation is making me so frustrated. You have been getting so little help.

Oh J :( This is such a sad thread and I feel furious on your behalf. You have been let down by so many people, it is really unbelievable that anyone would think it is ok for your h to punch you unconscious. IT NEVER IS!

You are doing really well, you children are lucky to have you as their mum. Please gather your friends around and let them help you!
And we will be here too to listen to you, hold your hand or send you a virtual hug.

What a wanker of a doctor. She sounds completely biased, family doctor or not. No professional can justify a one person punching another in the head and knocking them unconscious!!!!

You didn't go to her for family advise and information.

You went because you are struggling and need some help for yourself right now.

I would suggest you go back to a separate doctor not one who is a family doctor for an unbiased and rational appointment.

I second xales and I would also go so far as to let whatever doctor you speak to next at the practice that a previous doctor dismissed the assault on you and justified your H's abuse.

FFS read Lundy on the abuser and authorities!! Sorry about strong language.

I hope you have not phone him.

The gp should not have relayed to you her conversation with him.
Does that mean she will discuss yours with him too???
I would actually consider reporting her for breach of patient confidentiality.

If you slapped him he should have restrained you, not punched.
That's what I would do with someone weaker than me.

Regardless, also because you slapped him and in front of the children, it seems to me that your relationship has really degraded and it is better that you separate for everyone's sake.

J - I have sent you a pm. I can only add to the chorus asking you to look for another gp. You know my history, I think family therapy isn't the right step just now. Perhaps, after your H has accepted responsibility for his actions. And has had time to understand the dynamics of your relationship.
I actually think some sort of family therapy might have been helpful for us, but only after dh and I had worked through our own issues. But my dh accepted that how he had behaved was unacceptable. Yours still seems to be deflecting blame?
Try to spend time with people that are on your side. I don't believe your gp really understands what has gone on.

Did you tell your GP that your children were present when your husband hit you? Did you tell her about your husband becoming physical with your children when they tried to protect you from him?

I had exp's gp call me to tell me "but he is very depressed you know " "is there any chance you can get back together ? "
I wrote very calm and to the point to gp to say no .

More recently gp was also suggesting family therapy and again I explained ver factually na letter why not ... But. Do get the feeling no one is listening.
But you can say that you want individual counselling for six months before you consider family therapy . If you want to play games too say first individual then you might consider... But really best is change gp .... And in mewntime be very clear with them what he did t you.

And don't discuss this with h

What would you gain from that ?

I am still in shock about the GP's response. I really liked her before and now I feel that she disrespects me and thinks that I drove him to it or something. I told her what happened and that the children were present and she just responded that he told me you had 'attacked' him on previous occasions. I did once but it was hardly an attack but anyway that is irrelevant. Why did she tell me this and not tell me that what he did was out of order. I did phone H and we have agreed to family therapy. I explained to him that I will go so that at least I know that I have done my best and if it fails at least the family therapist will be able to help us split amicably. We need neutral ground to be able to hear each other's viewpoint. I can't end a 10 year relationship without that.

H took the children out today. Picked them up at 9.30 even though we had said 9. I didn't say anthing about this to him. He phoned me at 4.15pm and said he was at the house and that we had agreed 4.30 at the door in the morning. He was very accusative. I was out food shopping. I said I would finish the shopping and come back and that I genuinely did not know about this change of arrangment. Later on I sent him an email telling him that I did not appreciate the way he spoke to me especially in front of the children and that if he can't speak to me respectfully then don't say anything at all. I also added that any future arrangements even if made verbally should always be backed up by text to avoid this happenening again. Again I can see that he has a very negative view of me.

I am surprised that he is behaving like this and not being apologetic or at least a little softer. What's the point of being like this?

Thank you NoWayNoHow I agree with what you say although prob won't change number - he doesn't call and harrass me - quite the opposite actually! Lundy said (and one of you further up thread) that he is doing what he can to get me back - I can't see this though as he is being so cold he knows this is not a way to get me back, quite the opposite in fact. I can't figure this out.

Oh MY GOd I can't believe the reaction from the GP

I repeat that at the present time there is NO WAY you should be considering 'family therapy' and if he is proposing that you attend sessions at Relate, or similar, you should be aware that they will not engage in joint counselling where one party is a violent abuser.

Although waterlego responded here the other evening, I am still unclear as to whether you have a direct number for the solicitor you consulted and whether you have signed your Affidavit in support of your application for an Occupation order.

Have spoken to the/your independent domestic violence counsellor who will be representing you at next week's MARAC meeting?

He was very accusative

Again I can see that he has a very negative view of me

I am surprised that he is behaving like this and not being apologetic or at least a little softer

J4J I am so sorry to hear that he is still behaving like this. And I cannot stress enough how absolutely VITAL it is that you do not attend any kind of therapy with him at all in any way shape or form.

There is a reason that Relate won't allow joint/family counselling when one partner is abusive. And that is because it will go one way and one way only:

-He will tell lies or very, very exaggerated truths about you to the therapist.
-You will be too intimidated (after years of emotional abuse) to defend yourself and won't know what to say on the spot.

• He will act, and play the victim, and blame the problems in your marriage on you.
• He will either fail to mention The Incident at all, or he will lie and tell them that he lashed out and regretted it and wants to change (all of which is completely untrue and for which you've seen ZERO evidence thus far).
• You will feel compelled to tow the line and will start buying into his bullshit once again because not only will he be using those tried and tested tricks on you, but he'll have engaged an objective third party to support him.

You say that you can't see that what he's doing is aimed solely at getting you back, yet in the last 48 hours you've agreed to go to relationship counselling with him to fix your (plural) relationship "so that at least I know that I have done my best". It's not your job to do your best, J , not when he's yet to even acknowledge that he behaved in such a vile and unforgivable way by punching you unconscious in front of your children, blaming you and manhandling them.

He is a master manipulator, and he's going to ramp that up 100% when he has an audience in the form of a therapist. Please, please, please, please, I am BEGGING you - call and cancel any therapy with him. It will do you an enormous amount of psychological damage.

I am really concerned that every professional you have come into contact with appears to have no understanding of Child Protection and has disregarded the glaringly obvious Child Protection concerns here.

If you have told your GP about the incident as you related it here on the thread then she should have made a referral to Children?s Services as your children are clearly at risk.

I have worked in Child Protection for years and I have never heard of a case such as this being closed within a week (or two) of such an extreme case of DV occurring. I cannot speak for every police force but I have worked very closely with police to ensure that partners are removed from the home in far less serious cases of DV.

In my experience the hospital and police would have both referred immediately to Children?s Services and you would have had an immediate visit from Social Workers to assess the safety of your children. I myself have regularly been found doing such visits with police at 3am on a Sunday morning, such is the importance put upon responding to such violence in households where children are present. In my experience there is absolutely no way that a case such as yours (or rather your children?s) would have been closed without a child protection conference taking place and to be honest had a child protection conference taken place your children would have made subject to a child protection plan because right now they continue to be at risk given that they have contact with a man who has knocked you out and who has been rough/physical with them in the aftermath of this incident.

I very worried about any children living in the situation as you describe it. But I am also very worried about other women living in violent households reading this thread, they would no doubt think that absolutely none of the support services put in place to protect them and their children would actually lift a finger to help if they got up the courage to report what is happening to them.

So I cannot say strongly enough that your experience is not typical! Children living in such a dangerous situation would not be left at risk in this way especially not given the number of services (hospital, police, Children?s Services, solicitor and GP) were made aware of the situation.

Suffice to say if a therapist (be it individual or family) hears the story as it is relayed on this thread they will also by duty bound to make a referral to Children?s Services.

Excellent post Nigella, I work in this field and second every word you wrote.

Dear J and Water Lego, I can't remember if anyone has mentioned Respect - give them a call on Monday and talk through the situation. They are the government-funded service for DV perpetrators and set up the best DV therapy 0808 802 4040. And they are easy to get through to (wonder why?)
A lot of the things that have been mentioned upthread re unhelpful advice they have the answers to.
Stuff re H's rubbish from his therapist they have heard thousands of times before. And they can give you the appropriate response to the GP.
The professional response J has had is awful.
One good bit of advice I had was to be hard and hard-headed. If H does change, things do turn around to whatever degree then J can soften in response. It is much harder to do it the other way round. And no unsupervised contact. You can approach SS yourselves and ask for their help in determining what is safe contact and how it is to be arranged.
Please don't give H any benefit of the doubt at the moment.