Big fight with DP, still a little shaken

[SoggyGingerBiscuit]

I'll try and shorten a long story but basically saturday night DP and I ended up arguining as I'd arranged to go out with friends and he was looking forward to spending the child-free evening with me. I didn't realise he was looking forward to it or I wouldn't have booked it but by then it was too late to cancel my plans so we argued over it before finally he stormed out and went to the gym.

He came back around 6pm and the children had gone by this time (to their dad) and he asked if I'd reconsidered the evening. I said I hadn't and was still going and it erupted into another argument where he said I was selfish and never think about him and he's always bottom of my list of priorities (untrue) so anyway he walked over to me and shouted in my face "Do you the fuck you want, you always do anyway". So I told him I wasn't discussing it further with him until he'd calmed down. He then grabbed me by the arm and dragged me from the kitchen into the living room saying "go on then, fuck off, go and get ready, less I see of you right now the better anyway" etc. and he was really hurting my arm and in panic I lashed out and hit him in the face.

We both stopped, I was mortified and gobsmacked and he just looked at me. I said I was sorry and hadn't mean to actually hit him and he stormed up to me forcing me to back into the wall (although he didn't actually touch me) and snarled at me "don't ever hit me again". I've never seen him so angry and close to losing control and was actually quite frightened, he's a big bloke (6ft 4) and it was intimidating. he said then "do you understand?" I nodded and he said "get out of my fucking sight" so I went upstairs. Had a good cry, came down about 20 minutes later to apologise again and explained that I hadn't meant to hit him, it was a reflect and he said "well lets hope I don't start getting mad reflexes then". I got a bit cross because the fact that he'd dragged me around by arm before this seemed to have been forgotten so I said "you're not 100% innocent in this either" and he absolutely lost it and started saying stuff like "so I take it it's ok for us to hit each other when we're pissed off then?" he then grabbed me, knocked me onto the sofa and pinned me down and raised his fist as if he was going to punch me in the face. I screamed and begged him to stop. He got off me and I ran upstairs. He came up a few minutes later and I screamed at him to leave me alone and he said he was so sorry and had gone too far and that he'd never hurt me.

Anyway long story short I was just so glad it had all stopped I let him hug me and we 'kissed and made up' but I cant let it go. I was so frightened when he did that and its made me wonder how far hed go. I admit I should never have hit him, I know that so I kind of feel that I can't play little miss innocent on it all either. Is it just a 50/50 thing that I should accept and move on from?

Women commit DV too.

It's not just sons, it's everyone who should be educated about respect - respect for themselves, and respect for others - at a young age.

Unfortunately, that education happens implicitly from the role models a child is raised with.

Basil

thankyou for this;

In the majority of cases where that happens, it's because the woman has been so successfully intimidated by that one case of violence, that she moderates her behaviour from then on. She watches his moods, anticipates exactly how far she can go in expressing herself, treads on eggshells to ensure that he is pleased and calm and doesn't attack her. He never has to raise his fist to her again, to have her completely under his control. That one corrective first time, keeps her in line for the rest of their time together. And everyone says that as it was only the once, it doesn't really count and it's not DV

You gave me a light bulb moment

I was forever saying/thinking- 'he's only hit me a couple of times-hes not really that bad'

Have lurked and posted once on this thread but after recently leaving a 18 year marriage much of it abusive I realise I still think like a victim and my first reaction to the op was she shouldn't of hit him as it would only make him madder something I learnt in my marriage, which I realise Is wrong and completely missing the point,

But my point is that although this thread at times has turned a bit nasty it is still so important for these threads to come out in the open and for people like me to see this, it has once again made me realise my way of thinking is still way out of whack, the more DV is discussed and the more we can educate people to realise it's completely unacceptable the better!

Hope it had hasn't come across as rambling drivel, and I hope the op comes back at some point but I'm not so sure she will!

suzie, it takes time to get out of that thinking, don't worry about it too much, you will get there. 18 years is a long time to live like that. It's not going to change overnight.

Agreed this is a subject that MUST be discussed in FULL VIEW. the more light shone onto this shady of subjects the better....

after all cockroaches scurry from the light

I'm hoping the OP is reading, even if she's not responding.

I know it got silly at times but I think, as susiedaisy said, the discussion on this thread has been worthwhile. A few posters said the same thing as you thought susie - "Why did she hit him back, it just made things worse" and a few focused on her entirely, saying she shouldn't have hit him at all. Those attitudes illustrate exactly why so many women stay in abusive relationships - because there are attitudes out there that state that women shouldn't fight back, they should just back down as soon as they're physically threatened and modify their behaviour from there on in to ensure it doesn't happen again. What that leads to is a woman who's terribly shaken up from having her safety threatened, confused, upset and lonely, hearing that she has to put up with the violence, that it "wasn't that bad." What sort of a message is that to give out?? The message should be that any sort of violence in any relationship, whether perpetrated by a man or a woman is absolutely not acceptable and that if you're considering leaving a partner because they were violent then you are doing a very sensible and appropriate thing.

spot onsuzie

He exploded becuase you've had the cheek to make plans for yourself after his scetchy plans weren't confirmed. He shouted in your face then dragged you by the arm and hurt you. You lashed out to get him off you as you would if a total stranger did the same thing because you were in pain. He then repeated this behaviour and escalated it to the point where he was going to punch you in the face. It sounds to me like he stopped this time and made an excuse that he was just trying to frighten you. Listen to me:

BULLSHIT

He was going to hit you, he did not do it just to frighten you, he will do it again and next time he will take it further.

I screamed at him to leave me alone and he said he was so sorry and had gone too far and that he'd never hurt me.

Listen to me:

He did hurt you. He did frighten you. He will do it again.

This is classic behaviour, grovelling afterwards, promises that it won't happen again. It will. Get out now.

The ignorance of the pathology of domestic abuse is mind boggling!

There are almost always attachment disorders in early life, of those who abuse. Men and women. One of the reasons it is worse in men, is because men are encouraged to dissociate, and women are allowed to talk, and discuss feelings.

Often abuser's parents , especially (for the reasons above) fathers are abusive too.

Abusers have the mindset of "victim". They see themselves in the role of victim, and that is the thing that causes the sense of entitlement, to use manipulation, either verbal, psychological, or physical, to make it somehow "fair" for them.

This is one of the reasons it escalates, because they will STILL perceive themselves to be a victim, even after asserting control in this dysfunctional way. It's NEVER going to be "fair" for these people.

That's why they blame everyone and everything else, and especially the person into whom they have projected all the stuff about themselves, that they don't want to, and because of the dissociation, can't, accept about themselves, and just how needy the failed attachments in early childhood have left them.

The answer?

If you are in an abusive relationship..GET OUT! This is how it gets passed on from generation to generation. If you are living in fear, anxiety, stress, depression, caused by living with an abusive partner, you cannot devote the energy required into secure attachments with children! You have to look after yourself, and be happy and secure in yourself, to give that to your babies.

Someone on here once said, The best thing a man can do for his kids, is love their mother. Total sense!

Happy mummy=happy baby. This is more true than I ever realised.

To add:

Abusers are often "addicted" to their partners. They need their partner, way more than the other way round. They are needy babies, in a grown man's body. And what do angry babies, and especially toddlers do, when they don't get their own way? And yet, we all know how much they NEED their mummies totally, don't they?

Abusers are stuck in early childhood.

And if you want to educate boys...change society to make it ok for men to cry, and express a full range of emotion, without the risk of feeling in any way emasculated.

I can see in my teenage DS, the way he is being socialised to detach from his feelings, and deny their existence. This is a major factor in the the pathology of abuse.

'Abusers are stuck in early childhood'

yes i completely agree with that,

I don't see that this thread is a 'fist fight between posters'TheTruth. Mumsnet is a broad church and posts such as this provide an opportunity for full and frank debate with the possibility of some consensus of opinion being reached.

It's not that easy to run when you have been attacked from behind, an arm is around your neck pressing on your windpipe and what feels as if it could be (and was) a knife is pointing at your kidneys AF

Being that he was 8" taller and some 6+ stone heavier than me, my attacker ostensibly had the advantage but, given that I was unable to engage in flight, the fight response kicked in and the damage was done (to him) when I became incensed overwhelmed by a feeling of 'how dare you' after I had disarmed him by breaking his arm.

I don't hold to the view that Western women are conditioned to live in fear of attack/rape, nor should they be. If a female has the misfortune to be attacked in the street or in their home, their first experience of physical violence is likely to be as unexpected as it is shocking.

I advocate self-defence classes for females so that they are alerted to the possibility of attack by known and unknown males/females and acquire the necessary skills to defend themselves should occasion arise.

I also don't see any reason why girls/women shouldn't be able to walk the streets in any footwear of their choice and I have no intention of wearing trainers or flats solely (no pun intended) to facilitate a speedy retreat from a man, or woman for that matter, who is intent on violence.

As I've said, the psychology of domestic violence is complex but, IME, women with high self-esteem do not linger in violent relationships. Becoming proficient in a skill such as karate, kung-fu, etc, can build self-esteem in those who do not naturally have this quality in abundance.

This debate could run and run and, in the interests of raising female awareness of dv and stranger attack, I hope it does.

me too izzy, debate away

but not everyone is a ninja, like you or physically able to overpower a man by utilising kung fu moves

< deja vu >

< echo, echo >

No indeed not.

I have rheumatoid arthritis, (probably caused by the somatic experience of a lifetime of abuse and suppressed rage) and sometime I can't stand up, or raise my arms, I don't think any amount of martial arts or self defence training would have helped me escape my attack.

But continuing therapy to attempt to recover some life and self esteem may stop me being in an abusive situation in the first place, in the future.

Can I just say that I feel very privileged to posting on the same thread as Jane Austen. Thanks.

Glad to be of assistance bejeezus.

You lost me there

Jane Austen ?

[whispers] Izzy. She is very majestic and 18th century. I am sure she is the present ghost of austen past. [bows]

Did Jane Austen use ninja moves ?

I thought she was rather ladylike (and rather wet...)

btw I have nothing against wet people...there is no way that I would be able to fight back against an big aggressive bloke intent on hurting me

call me soft

I meat her irrepressible use of austenesque lingo. Ignore me.

Where is the OP?

Are you ok op?

Ah, I see, UA. Different tangents innit. And i never ignore you. Nor izzywhizzywhatnots.

I guess I was still smarting from the inference "why wouldn't you simply karate-chop the fucker?"

MM. I know.

I prefer doing the 'lowering slowly to the floor in an arm lock' thingy. I might try that on a bottle of chardonnay any minute now.

how will you get your gob low enough to get the wine in though ?

um, maybe I'll have a nice cup of tea instead.

Still thinking of you Soggy x