Big fight with DP, still a little shaken

[SoggyGingerBiscuit]

I'll try and shorten a long story but basically saturday night DP and I ended up arguining as I'd arranged to go out with friends and he was looking forward to spending the child-free evening with me. I didn't realise he was looking forward to it or I wouldn't have booked it but by then it was too late to cancel my plans so we argued over it before finally he stormed out and went to the gym.

He came back around 6pm and the children had gone by this time (to their dad) and he asked if I'd reconsidered the evening. I said I hadn't and was still going and it erupted into another argument where he said I was selfish and never think about him and he's always bottom of my list of priorities (untrue) so anyway he walked over to me and shouted in my face "Do you the fuck you want, you always do anyway". So I told him I wasn't discussing it further with him until he'd calmed down. He then grabbed me by the arm and dragged me from the kitchen into the living room saying "go on then, fuck off, go and get ready, less I see of you right now the better anyway" etc. and he was really hurting my arm and in panic I lashed out and hit him in the face.

We both stopped, I was mortified and gobsmacked and he just looked at me. I said I was sorry and hadn't mean to actually hit him and he stormed up to me forcing me to back into the wall (although he didn't actually touch me) and snarled at me "don't ever hit me again". I've never seen him so angry and close to losing control and was actually quite frightened, he's a big bloke (6ft 4) and it was intimidating. he said then "do you understand?" I nodded and he said "get out of my fucking sight" so I went upstairs. Had a good cry, came down about 20 minutes later to apologise again and explained that I hadn't meant to hit him, it was a reflect and he said "well lets hope I don't start getting mad reflexes then". I got a bit cross because the fact that he'd dragged me around by arm before this seemed to have been forgotten so I said "you're not 100% innocent in this either" and he absolutely lost it and started saying stuff like "so I take it it's ok for us to hit each other when we're pissed off then?" he then grabbed me, knocked me onto the sofa and pinned me down and raised his fist as if he was going to punch me in the face. I screamed and begged him to stop. He got off me and I ran upstairs. He came up a few minutes later and I screamed at him to leave me alone and he said he was so sorry and had gone too far and that he'd never hurt me.

Anyway long story short I was just so glad it had all stopped I let him hug me and we 'kissed and made up' but I cant let it go. I was so frightened when he did that and its made me wonder how far hed go. I admit I should never have hit him, I know that so I kind of feel that I can't play little miss innocent on it all either. Is it just a 50/50 thing that I should accept and move on from?

coffee how very dare you, I would not give my buns away to anyone

the cake is mine

and the OP hasn't been back for quite some time, long before OMC and I's little bout of ninjo posturing

Am I being FICK? I don't get why OMC is coming in for flack? He's not saying the shit fuzzy is spewing..

I'd rather listen to this guy talking about his view of DV all day long and what HE'D do than a couple of frankly idiotic and naive women basically telling the OP that she brought it on herself and that she's over-fucking-reacting.

If OMC was a DV apologist - which I frankly don't see at all from his posts, unless I missed one somewhere - he'd not have stepped in to 3 DV situations. I only wish I could have done when I witnessed an assault. Alas I was the wrong side of a 8 lane road and 4 flights up in a country I couldn't reasonably leave the house in.

OK so violence is NEVER OK, but the bloke put the OP in a situation where involuntary violence was a consequence in response to his premeditated and calculated attack on the OP.

There IS no grey area in this situation,

There is simply a bright red flashing neon sign that screams GET OUT to the OP.

hissy, what people are taking issue with in OMC's posts is his rather high-handed and mansplaining manner when he implies that OP is equally as bad as the man that attacked her

and then the application of biscuits when the yappy wimminz won't shut up and worship his manly opinion

and FWIW, I said he wasn't an apolologist for DV, but that he had another agenda

and IMO, that was that he said men ie. him and his ninja wrist-wrestling, were allowed to defend themselves but women were "nutcases" when they did it in the only way that they may know how (not being ninja's, and simply petrified they were going to get hurt by a person much bigger and stronger than them)

does that clear it up for you ? Like mud ?

I don't think OMC is a DV apologist.

I jsut think he very obviously doesn't know very much about the dynamics of DV.

I also don't understand why people are allowed to defend themselves from violent attack, but women aren't.

Oh let him swing his dick if he so wishes, i'd still rather that than the vile stuff fabby and fuzzy wank off about

Nah, the arm wrestling stuff and nutcase comment didn't come across like that to me at all. He said he'd not react violently and if a woman DID hit him, he'd think nutjob and bin her. Totally right too IMVHO.

Perhaps where OMC fails is to fully understand the position of underdog. I don't know how tall he is, but if he were a short man, perhaps he might get it, but from what he's said, i don't think he is short.

Men don't naturally understand that for a woman walking along a street alone, even in daylight, if there is a guy walking behind her, it WILL cross her mind what his intentions are, and she will consider to herself if she is in any danger. She may start to hear that 'Crimewatch Reconstruction Voice' narrating her last movements.

She may think to cross the street, or wonder where to run to if anything kicks off.

To be a woman in the presence of a man who is raving is a terrifying prospect for anyone, to be utterly physically outgunned by him and have him screaming at you, dragging you across the floor by the arm is something every woman can understand/imagine on some level.

I wonder if blokes that ARE more sure of their physical capabilities really CAN understand the fear that is being dominated in every way possible.

OMC didn't IMO excuse the DV, he merely said that she ought to get out of it. He may not understand the subtleties of DV, but has seemingly shown much understanding that a physical assault is unacceptable, and interestingly with varied and unexpected reactions.

He may also have forgotten, as clearly some others have on this thread, that the physical violence is one of the LAST forms of abuse that is meted out.

The bloke here has groomed her for the last 18m for this. He's sure she won't leave him.

The thing is, he said that if a woman hit him, he'd think she was a nutter.

Which in isolation, is perfectly reasonable.

What he didn't mention, is if a woman is to be considered a nutter if she hits a man because he is hurting her and she doesn't know how much more he's going to hurt her.

He talked about this case, as if it were a woman hitting a man randomly with no reason. This woman hit this man in self-defence. That doesn't make her a nutter, it makes her someone who is scared, in pain and defending herself.

I realise that he prob didn't mean to imply that every woman who defends herself when under attack is a nutter, while men who get attacked simply calmly and rationally defend themselves as befits them; but that's how it came across and I suspect that's why he got such a negative response.

Oh dear, this scenario is sounding horribly familiar.
A bit like the time I ruptured my exes eardrum..... oh god I never heard the end of that.
The forgotten bit, though, was that he was holding me down on the bed and punching me in the head, and his injury was the result of my flailing hand hitting his ear.
My fault, though, of course.
Just like the bruises up my arm and leg, that looked as if I'd been hit by a truck, were my fault. I was on the bed then as well, curled up in a ball on my side. It was my fault though because I'd got drunk and flirted.
Any one on here justifying this scary man's behaviour... sorry, can't get my head around it at all. And anyone somehow taking from this that the OP hit him - just how much of a blind spot or agenda can one possibly have?
I never thought I'd read some of the opinions I have on here. Thank god they are not the majority, but depressing as hell all the same.

'nutcases' re wimmin and arm locking and 'lowering' to the ground re blokes.

lmao.

I bet you're short.

Arf at ninjo

xkittyx I have had a similar experience-I smacked a man full in the face once and did him some damage. This caught him off guard, he released his grip, and momentarily took the knife away from my neck allowing me to leg it. I am not a nutter.

Actually, I sound a bit ninjo here myself. But the point is-this was a domestic situation, -the second incident, if you like. The first being a push. A push. That was all. Escalation, much?

Forgive me for concluding that the man who does this once but never ever again is the exception and not the rule.

kitty I am so sorry you had to experience that

FWIW hissy I would prefer to read the woefully uninformed comments (if I must...) from men than hear the same from women

even though I know I should be equally appalled by them from either gender

I guess that is conditioning...that we make more allowances for men than women

but you see, it's quite dangerous territory (from a sexist POV) to say "well, men can never understand that can they?"

I know this thread is getting terribly off-track now, but I just had a bit of a lightbulb moment

where is OP, btw ?

< rambles >

Yes of course Basil, I hadn't thought of that scenario, duh. I was thinking of the man who undergoes an epiphany of some sort and sees the light and so on.....hmmm, -now I'm arf-ing at myself for thinking that might be likely.

Oh I'm always doing that duh thing. The duh was at myself in case you're wondering. I got told off for that recently where someone thought I was duh-ing them.

Now that's rambling.

Even when my ExH showed me the bag full of lubricants and condoms in his suitcase when he came back from Heathrow the first time, and said he had intended to get to bangland and 'immerse himself in seedy sex' I didn't hit him.

I made a face certainly - and euwwwww

I now wish I had. Hard. Right in the goolies.

OP, you know what you have to do, don't you? You have to protect yourself and your children. Get out of his life. He's got you twisting and turning, frightened and shaken. He will do it again. You know that already anyway.

Leave him. Please.

I'd be obliged if those who are making sweeping generalisations about the 'weaker' sex will count me out.

I am 5.6" tall and weigh 8.5 stone. When I was the victim of a random attack by a 6.2" stockily built stranger, he was the one that became scarred for life.

I wouldn't be so melodramatic as to say that kung-fu and karate classes saved my life but put it this way, despite the best efforts of a burly stranger I'm still here in one piece and none the worse for my experience.

A minimal financial investment in self-defence classes for women and girls of all ages may bring about a decrease in the numbers of female victims of violence by unknown males.

However, in terms of female victims of violence by known males, the psychology of domestic violence is more complex albeit that, when asked, the reason given by many women who choose to stay with their violent and abusive spouses/partners is that they 'love him'.

All young girls should be made aware of the necessity of putting self-preservation and self-esteem before any notion of romantic love for abusive males, and the most effective way of ensuring that acceptance of male violence in the home does not pass down to the next generation is for mothers/female carers to lead by example.

Izzy, it is a fact that women are generally smaller and have less physical strength than men

It is not recommended that women fight back, but that they run or otherwise get away by any means possible when confronted by a random attacker

I am glad you managed to fight your attacker off, but we should be aware that the instinctive reaction by many women is to freeze

I agree with the second half of your last post though

Interesting. Your post Izzy made me think. I remember when I was 17 or so, my then boyfriend beat the shit out of me. I managed to get him off me finally and ran home like the wind. When I told my mother what had happened, she laughed and said 'you probably deserved it'. End of conversation.

I got back together with the boyfriend and he hit me twice more meaning two further splits, before I was finally able to finish the relationship...at which point he threatened suicide and begged on his knees. Thankfully I went abroad for a couple of months and then went to Uni and never saw him again.

For many years I felt my mother was probably right. After all, I was a smart-arse and probably quite a pompous young woman.

And lo and behold, I went on to have a string of abusive relationships not least my marriage.

Since that marriage finished I have taught myself a lot about how emotionally and physically abusive men operate, a huge amount about red flags, read heaps of books about how and why they pick their targets etc. I realise that I have always gone around with 'mug' somehow stamped on my face - and thus invited a right stamping from several horrible 'lovers'

If my mother had shown any kind of shock and horror when I returned battered and bruised that night, if she had hugged me and sat me down for a good talking to about how physical violence is unacceptable etc etc, maybe my self-esteem would have been genuine instead of built on sand and I would not have endured years of sobbing and confusion. And my child would have had a decent, kind father.

I wonder if many mothers simply turn a blind eye to their daughters being abused, because at the teenagery time when they are first learning about love and boundaries etc, they are a PITA and extremely irritating to their mums?

But then my parents marriage was emotionally abusive - my mother bullied and bullied my father incessantly and he whimpered and took it all.

Very similar here UA.

My parents relationship was abusive...my mother the abuser, my father did nothing to defend either himself or his children.

I have had two abusive marriages, and have come to the realisation that every relationship I have ever had has been toxic, and every man I have fallen for comes from a toxic family too, usually a preponderence of alcoholic mothers.

My current stbxh comes from a family whose toxicity would make your hair curl. One of THOSE families, you know the really rough ones from the really rough street, that everyone knew about and were on the crime pages of the local rag rather a lot? And h managed to keep ALL that from me for nine years! I married a myth, a liar, a fraud. I understand why he did that, but his own toxic behaviour eventually gave him away.

Had I known then what I know now.............

And of the OP, or anyone in a similar situation, is reading this, the best defence you have is informing yourselves. Read all the links at the top of this thread, read the books, as many as you can. The more you know, the "easier" it becomes to get yourself out, and not get into one of these relationships again.

I've taken self defence classes, the main thing one learns is that one does not want to engage the attacker but run! However in the case of being attacked and held down we were taught how to incapacitate the attacker long enough to get away safely, in which case any person attacking me would actually end up hurt if instinct kicked in (prolly a lot worse than slap on the face), I've never been taught to gently lower an attacker to the floor!!!!

My self defence teacher once said he had been accosted at a bar and his automatic reaction was to hurt the attacker pretty badly.

I left ex because he was incredibly abusive, the last fight I did lash out because I was cornered, he would not stop hitting me and he was standing between me and my terrified baby. Perrhaps I should not have hit out at him, however I needed to get the hell away from him with my child safely and he wouldnt let me.

I don't feel I'm to blame for his assaults on me and his violent tendencies in any shape or form. I've managed to get to my thirties without ever hitting a person, I defended myself agianst ex.

Bottom line I would never ever allow any man to hurt me, I'd leave I don't care how long the relationship had been going for, I could not love and sleep with a man who found it easy to use his strength to terrify me into submission.

Thing is, as is demonstrated on here day in day out, if you have a 'normal'/healthy relationship it's almost impossible to understand why an otherwise intelligent, educated, travelled and 'has it all' woman puts up with domestic violence?

How many times do we get posters shrieking at the OP, Why on earth are you STILL putting up with this, WHY do you stay?

If my bloke ever did THAT to me, I'd walk/belt him back, tell him to FF off....

From a position of blissful ignorance, the viewpoint is skewed.

What I actually meant by my comments was that if a man doesn't appreciate the innate vulnerability of women in general it's not that hard a concept to understand for him to then go on and say, well if X hit me, I would do Y.

We are conditioned to fear attack, rape is the most common of these attack fears. We even now come across stories and sound bites where some dick head says, 'She was wearing a short skirt/had lots of boyfriends/was out until all hours... she brought it on herself'

I am NOT saying that women ARE more vulnerable per se. We are JUST as capable of defending ourselves if need be.

Women are not a 'special case' but it is NOT a generalisation to say that many men are much more physically powerful than most women, having done a bit of self defence learned that it's mostly centre of balance and knowing what to do when, but if we don't know that... That said, the fact of the matter is that we shouldn't HAVE to.

Society STILL force feeds the Macho Man and the Orange Fluffy Bimbette with big tits and high heels down our throats. To some, we are not supposed to be equal it would seem. It's inconvenient.

Being strong, intelligent, independent, no nonsense and uncompromising are qualities that we women ALL have the ability to be, but it would seem that society tends to attribute negative labels to women that possess them.

Until we educate our children that abuse, entitlement, manipulation and control are UNACCEPTABLE and must be rejected at the FIRST instance of it, no exceptions, it will carry on. Our daughters and grand-daughters will be on here, posting the same heartbreaking stories that we are. NOTHING saddens me more than that idea. Not when this stuff really IS as simple as saying, 'Naah, that won't work for me mate, on your bike...' at the very first incident where controlling behaviour raises it's ugly head.

We have to know our rights first, we have to demand them and make them dealbreakers. Every. Single. Time.

Female equality is not a war to be won. It will never be 'WON', we can never dust off our hands and say Great, that's THAT then. It is a position that we will always need to work at, or we will LOSE it.

An analogy for you. Female Equality is like a garden. You put immense effort to create it, nurture it, cultivate it. It needs to be constantly maintained. If you walk away from it, thinking the job is done, in no time at all it will be back to where it started and you'll have to do it ALL again.

I read just the first page and came to last and saw that this thread has degenerated into some fist fight between posters.

Anyway, to the OP, dump him now, not tomorrow, now. He is NOT the kindest man you have ever seen, he is a thug. He looks like a good actor to me, acting like he is kind etc. Tell him to fuck the fuck off and probably even report him to police for violence.

Shouldn't parents be educating their sons about domestic violence?

Going from this site women don't commit DV they defend themselves, 1 in 4 women suffer from DV so there are a lot of men out there being violent and abusive.

And hard as it may be to admit it, statistically some posters sons are going to end up committing DV so they are the ones that should be educated about not committing DV as well.