Big fight with DP, still a little shaken

[SoggyGingerBiscuit]

I'll try and shorten a long story but basically saturday night DP and I ended up arguining as I'd arranged to go out with friends and he was looking forward to spending the child-free evening with me. I didn't realise he was looking forward to it or I wouldn't have booked it but by then it was too late to cancel my plans so we argued over it before finally he stormed out and went to the gym.

He came back around 6pm and the children had gone by this time (to their dad) and he asked if I'd reconsidered the evening. I said I hadn't and was still going and it erupted into another argument where he said I was selfish and never think about him and he's always bottom of my list of priorities (untrue) so anyway he walked over to me and shouted in my face "Do you the fuck you want, you always do anyway". So I told him I wasn't discussing it further with him until he'd calmed down. He then grabbed me by the arm and dragged me from the kitchen into the living room saying "go on then, fuck off, go and get ready, less I see of you right now the better anyway" etc. and he was really hurting my arm and in panic I lashed out and hit him in the face.

We both stopped, I was mortified and gobsmacked and he just looked at me. I said I was sorry and hadn't mean to actually hit him and he stormed up to me forcing me to back into the wall (although he didn't actually touch me) and snarled at me "don't ever hit me again". I've never seen him so angry and close to losing control and was actually quite frightened, he's a big bloke (6ft 4) and it was intimidating. he said then "do you understand?" I nodded and he said "get out of my fucking sight" so I went upstairs. Had a good cry, came down about 20 minutes later to apologise again and explained that I hadn't meant to hit him, it was a reflect and he said "well lets hope I don't start getting mad reflexes then". I got a bit cross because the fact that he'd dragged me around by arm before this seemed to have been forgotten so I said "you're not 100% innocent in this either" and he absolutely lost it and started saying stuff like "so I take it it's ok for us to hit each other when we're pissed off then?" he then grabbed me, knocked me onto the sofa and pinned me down and raised his fist as if he was going to punch me in the face. I screamed and begged him to stop. He got off me and I ran upstairs. He came up a few minutes later and I screamed at him to leave me alone and he said he was so sorry and had gone too far and that he'd never hurt me.

Anyway long story short I was just so glad it had all stopped I let him hug me and we 'kissed and made up' but I cant let it go. I was so frightened when he did that and its made me wonder how far hed go. I admit I should never have hit him, I know that so I kind of feel that I can't play little miss innocent on it all either. Is it just a 50/50 thing that I should accept and move on from?

Speaking as a man this is a very tricky one, although regardless, OP I'm sorry for what happened to you.

On the one hand - you did hit him and if I was in his place I would be incredibly shocked and upset and really need to reconsider the relationship.

On the other hand - let us for a moment confront the elephant in the room. A woman hitting a man is NOT the same as a man hitting a woman, however much we may wish to pretend otherwise. The potential for actual harm is almost none and this is important no matter what we may like to say.
With this in mind his reaction is so far beyond the normal limits that I would be worried. No matter how much I was (mentally) pushed, no matter how disappointed I was at the change of plans, no matter how long the problems had been building - unless I was in clear physical danger, I would never ever grab, push, pull, hit or otherwise physically react to a female partner.

I don't think he is a domestic abuser but I do think he's a not very nice person.

fuzzynavel Mon 16-Jan-12 20:20:58
"not everyone that looses their temper now and again is an axe weilding control freak murder in the making"

try it in the street next time a parking warden annoys you and see if that gets shrugged off as a one off incident

there happen to be quite a few of us who think that people should be able to exercise the same amount of physical restraint in their domestic life as they do in the street or in the workplace

unless I am completely mistaken the Law thinks so too...

Bunbury, it is not just that he is a man and she is a woman: it is also about the fact that he attacked her first dragging her about the house, her lashing out was in a panic when she was being attacked. It is all in the OP.

Cory you're absolutely right and I missed that in the OP. I would still have my reservations about labelling him a domestic abuser but I have zero experience of those who are so I would be inclined to bow to others expertise.

The thing is, a lot of people still think that men are basically in charge of women, and own them. So when a woman's partner is angry, she should placate him at once, obey him, apologise, no matter why he's angry. And that men are entitled to be angry with women who are 'disrespectful' or 'disobedient'.

Of course, it's not wrong for anyone to be angry with a partner sometimes. People do not always agree, nor do they always behave considerately. But there is a big difference between being angry, showing that you are angry, and repeatedly attacking the partner who has displeased you. This man attacked the OP several times, he had enough time to choose to attack and terrorize her again after the first quarrel.

I'm so sorry, Soggy, but he is definitely going to attack you again. And again. He thinks it's OK to do so, because you are a 'woman' who belongs to him and therefore can be treated like a disobedient pet and slapped around until you learn your place.

Bunbury - does the term "domestic abuser" really matter? Surely it's enough that he acted as he would - that alone makes his a potentially dangerous bastard and he shouldn't get a second chance afor acting like that.
I just think that if your partner fucks you off, LEAVE. Don't resort to violence and intimidation. No-one's ever violent only once.
I just can't get my head around people would rather be with weak, violent, scummy specimens than on their own.

I also find it very odd that people seem to think it's better to hang onto a dysfunctional relationship like this one than to be single. Why on earth are people encouraging the OP to give the partner another chance? They haven't been going out for very long, they don't have any children together and they're not married so splitting up is a very simple thing. He scared her and intimidated her - what better reason is there to split up?

Relationships are supposed to enhance your life, make them richer and happier. Apart from your children you are not required to maintain a relationship with anyone if you don't want to. I just find it weird that people are trying to find reasons to justify what the OP's partner did - as though it is vitally important that these two people stay together and any suggestion that they split up is somehow way over the top. The fact of the matter is, they had a physical fight, no matter who started or finished it. Once a relationship gets to that stage it's time to call it quits. I just can't understand why people would encourage anyone to stay with someone who treats them this way. I suppose, as others have said, it goes a long way to explaining why women stay in abusive relationships for so long. There's a first incident like this, the woman tells her family/friends, they say "Oh he was just angry, it was a heat of the moment thing, give it another go" and before she knows it the woman is walking on eggshells for fear another incident will happen. Domestic violence will only decrease if women say NO violence is acceptable, at any time. The idea that some posters on here might be contributing to another woman staying with a violent man gives me the shudders.

Agree with everything cailindana has said.

You're probably right BWITGG, it may not matter at all what we call him, he doesn't deserve a second chance. I'm not sure that you're completely right in saying "no-one's ever violent once" but as Cailin points out this is not a 30 year marriage with children that MIGHT be worth saving were the same thing to happen as a one off - it's a relatively short term relationship that should be end over something like this.

A relationship with violence in it should not survive.

30 weeks, 30 months or 30 years.

Once violence has been perpetrated, there is the risk of it happening again, and that very risk can be used again and again to imply physical violence, without raising a fist.

Unless there is genuine OMG, shock horror, contrition, and immediate assumption of responsibility, then that's it.

That is NOT the case here, is it?

This guy thinks he has a right to belt his GF.

he needs to GO and GO NOW.

I haven't read the whole thread yet but OP, his behaviour is ABUSIVE. Not 50/50, not partly your fault, not even slightly your fault. You hitting him had NOTHING to do with what happened, it just conveniently gave him something that he could use to make you feel that you deserved to be treated that way.

He created an argument because you said 'no' to him.
He screamed in your face.
He dragged you around by the arm.
You accidentally hit him in the face.
He used this to further terrify you, despite KNOWING that he had hurt and frightened you.
He pushed you onto the sofa and threatened to punch you in the face.

Please, please read this back to yourself. NOTHING that you did, said, or didn't do caused this. He behaved like this because he feels justified in being abusive. Normal men do not do ANY of the above. A normal (non-abusive) man would be horrified that he had frightened you and would be as you were when you accidentally hit him - horrified and apologetic, because that's what people DO when they care about each other.

This is the first time he has behaved like this. The first time. What do you think the next time will be like? Or the next time? You are rightly shaken, upset and angry and so you should be. Your partner has revealed his true self. His real self. THIS is the real him. Not the hearts and flowers guy who no doubt professes his love and talks the talk and 'lets' you go out with your friends. Words are cheap, they mean nothing. It's what people DO that counts and he has shown you exactly who he is and what he thinks of you. If you ignore this, play it down, pretend it didn't happen and are just glad that he has stopped being nasty and be grateful to him for that, you have just entered an abusive relationship.

He has shown quite clearly, not only by what he did at the time but also by what he did and said afterwards that he is ABUSIVE. He was not sorry. You even walked away from him and gave him time to calm down. Anger didn't cause this OP. This is not an anger management problem, it is an abuse problem.

He made it quite clear to you that he is holding you responsible for his abuse and that if he so felt the need that it WILL happen again. He alluded to his physical strength and what he is capable of. Normal men DO NOT say or do things like that.

Yes he said that he was 'sorry' and that he had 'gone too far' and that he would 'never hurt me'. BUT he DID hurt you OP, he knew he was hurting you, emotionally and physically but he did it anyway, but he didn't care!

How you react now will change your life, forever. You have a choice now to either hope he never does it again and carry on, unwilling to let go of the 'nice guy' who never really existed and who will become a more infrequent visitor as time passes, eventually to never be seen again OR you tell him that he has blown it, leave, have a good life free from abuse and be happy again with a GOOD man. A kind man who would never, ever drag you around or threaten to punch you in the face.

He will do this again, I suspect if you carry on in the relationship it won't be too long before it happens again either. People disagree in normal relationships, how long do you think it will be before you disagree with him again?

Please speak to someone in RL, tell your friends, your mum or family. If you brush this under the carpet you have just given him a green light to abuse you. Please get out while you still can.

OP are you still reading ?

I have seen your future, in Mumsnet thread form

would you like a glimpse of it ?

it's here

I am very sorry...but I am more sorry for the OP of that other thread

you are not deep in

you are in a new relationship, and this man has done you a favour believe it or not

he has revealed himself at an early juncture

listen to the message he is giving you, it is a gift if you could but see it, because thankfully you are not yet in too deep

This isn't out of character behaviour for him, this is in character behaviour.

"I had told him 2 days ago I was thinking of going out and he asked me not to as he was buying wine etc and I said I'd try and get out of it but I never did"

is the issue. When people are hurt or frightened they turn it to anger because anger feels less helpless.

You have a right to do what you want to do. So you clearly preferred to go out with your friends, (normal people have friendships, why not) - and you did something passive.

1. Why didn't you say clearly, sorry I have already arranged something? (firm boundaries, clear statement, honest and upfront

1. How would he have reacted to this?

This is the rub of it. Does he have friends, a life outside you? Or does he want to keep you all to himself?

Talk to some of his exes. What do they say about him?

Are you still reading your thread, OP ?

No of course the poster won't come back to this. Because it has ended the way they mostly always do.

The one post on here that makes total sense is crabby and look what all of you did to her.

In some cases, yes there are shades of grey.

Oh and another thing, look what you do to fabby on here. She is entitled to her opinion. A lot of you advocate a holier than though attitude but the way you attack other posters makes me sick.

Unfortunately there are a lot of bullies on here in disguise.

fuzzy, there are a lot of posters who think that any level of DV is intolerable

if you have a problem with that, you are on the wrong site

AF, I can use this site just as much as anyone else so you can pack that right up.

Ah, blame. That loveliest of creatures.

of course you can

but you could also quit the whinging about "bullies" and "posters being attacked"

I don't understand why somebody who hated the opinion of the other posters on a site, thinks they see bullying left right and centre and can find no common ground, would bother to stick around at all, tbh

one of the reasons I do stick around here is because of the generally low level of tolerance for the mistreatment of women by men

I'd say for the sake of your children and yourself, to at least ask him to move out, as this doesn't sound like a good relationship to me.

you came back for a row, fuzzy, that is quite clear

the thread had gone quiet, there were a couple of shout outs to check if Op is ok, and up you pop with your "you are all bullies" tirade

perhaps your approach to posting could be examined a bit more closely, eh ?