Think I have decided to forgive him for this, wondered if others would do the same

[kittyfishersknickers]

This happened a few months ago but is something I'm still thinking about. We were sleeping in the same bed but I had made it clear that I didn't want to have sex and he was fine with this. I was wearing pyjamas (well, leggings and top) to reinforce this fact. When we turned the light out I settled on my side facing away from him and after a few minutes he scootched across the bed and starting nuzzling me. I warned him not to as it would be bound to turn him on and he would want it to lead to things but he carried on. He tried to take my leggings off but I told him this was annoying and to stop, same when he put his hand up my top. Even though I kept telling him not to, he held onto me quite firmly and started having sex with me. After a few minutes he could tell I was not really into it and stopped, but then lay there fidgeting and obviously not about to go to sleep as he was so frustrated, so I said he could carry on.

For a while he refused to admit that he had done anything wrong, saying that I hadn't used a special safe word we have used before, and that because I had let him at the end it validated the whole thing. I did see his point, although still wasn't that happy. But we talked about it again recently and now he admits that he was too pressuring and went too far. There was nothing violent about any of it and he is now very sorry he did it, and I think now actually realises what his actions could be called. At the end of the discussion he seemed pretty upset by this and so I told him it was OK.

Do you think it's possible to do something like that but really not intend it and to never do it again?

He is lovely though and looks after me. He is currently planning a trip away to help me relax because I am stressed at work. He is usually very caring and I do trust him

headdesk

He does not look after you, he rapes and abuses you while making you think that he cares for and respects you

Please don't let him have a chance to do this again.

Those are all great qualities, but think about what it means that he looks after you. Is that because you have the idea you can't look after yourself? Who's given you that idea? It's nice for a man to feel like a man but if he's having sex with you when you've said you don't want him to, and grabbing you so that it hurts, he's asserting himself in a way that's abusive. And it doesn't sound like you can talk to him about that properly, either because he won't hear it or you're too afraid, or both. These are bad signs, kitty. A real man doesn't hurt or force himself on his wife.

OP lots of rape victims reproach themselves for not showing more distressed or not being more distressed at the time of their rape.

It's a self-defence mechanism and cultural conditioning. How you reacted makes no difference at all to what his actions were.

He is sounding worse and worse btw. There's something ever so not quite right about what you are telling us about him.

No way would I forgive my partner this. We have edgy sex too, safe word and all that, but this is a totally different scenario. In a relationship, you need to know that when you say no, that will be respected.

He really did apologize straight away about the wrist grabbing thing. I'm not afraid of him. These are two things that happened months apart and all the nice and good stuff outweighs it by far.

Oh OP

OP sounds like she feels very afraid, but can't quiet articulate that to herself yet. Rape and physical abuse? This man has no redeeming features.

How long have you known him OP and how long have you been together? What is his relationship history - and yours?

You don't have to answer on here the question I asked in my last post, but I think it would be helpful for you to think about it.

Apologising is irrelevant. All abusers apologise. And how quickly or slowly they do it is also irrelevant.

Okay, well then I'd suggest you talk fully and frankly about the fact that you said it was 'okay' because you felt like you didn't want him to be upset. Now that's a bad sign in itself and suggests that him being upset is more important for you to 'solve' than recognising your own confusion, hurt or upset and it really, really isn't when you've done nothing wrong and he has. If the relationship is weighted towards pleasing him, sexually, emotionally or whatever, that's not okay.

It wasn't okay that he did that, and 'forgiving' isn't an option unless you know why he thought it was okay and why he knows it won't happen again. You still think about it and struggle with it a bit and he needs to understand that and it can't just disappear through the magic words 'i forgive you'. It is not about those words. It is about his actions. Nothing like that should ever happen again no matter what.

How long have you been together?

However well he looks after you, and whatever nice things he does, this is a BIG minus point. And it's not an excuse. You need to look at this issue in isolation and not as a balancing factor. I have, in my work, known some very nice paedophiles who are caring, friendly helpful people. But they are doing something inexcusable and illegal.

Sorry to bring in a tabloid example but I'm just trying to illustrate that nice people can do terrible things. And he is doing/has done a terrible thing, which he needs to acknowledge, atone for and never, ever do again.

You clearly love him, and want the relationship to continue, but you can only move on and continue if he genuinely recognises the full weight of his behaviour. Being a caring, apologetic person absolutely does not excuse the odd burst of threatening behaviour/sexual bullying. It just doesn't.

Your OP stated that you were most concerned about whether this would ever happen again. From what you have said, I can guarantee that it will.

Kitty - my ex-fiance promised me and promised me that he would never do it again. But he did it again and again, and it took me a hell of a long time to come to terms with what he had done to me.

So if he has never done this before..... Or anything slightly similiar......then why the conversation beforehand and the covering yourself up to reinforce it?! I don't understand why you would do that if this kind if thing has never happened before

kitty

I strongly suspect that your partner has introduced the 'safeword' concept in order to blur the issue of consent. If you are suddenly subject to a sexual assault (and that's what this was) then you are not going to be thinking to yourself "hmmm...what's my safeword?", you are going to be yelling "stop, no, gerroff me". Your partner's safeword ploy means that, in his mind, he now has carte blanche to rape you.

FWIW my safewords are "stop" and "no". I've never understood the need to substitute "Lobster Telephone" or something equally stupid/bizarre for these, and I'd also be very unhappy with any type of roleplay where "No" did not, unequivocally mean "No". That would set a very worrying precedent for me.

FWIW, OP, a former partner of mine was, it seemed, a compassionate individual, a man who hated bullying, who hated violence, who hated misogyny and was appalled by the way women are abused by men. And he knew a lot about it. Had read a lot of feminist literature on such topics. And to be honest, I think he genuinely was disgusted by a lot of it.

He never raped or physically attacked me, but over a period of around ten years destroyed my personality and self esteem with a campaign of continuous, sustained, calculated mental and emotional abuse. I have not laid eyes on him for five years, but I still have not got over it.

My point is this: a person can seem as kind and caring as you like, be as apparently pro-women and anti-bullying as you like, but that person can still go through life not applying the rules to themselves.

He has tried to persuade you that he has done nothing wrong. I spent a decade with a man who claimed he never did anything wrong. Any time I complained about his nasty behaviour, he found a way to make it my fault. I really wish I could have that time back.

THis man sounds awful. He is manipulating you and messing with your head in order to train you to accept pretty much anything, by the sound of it.
Safewords are not inherently wrong, lots of nice people use them in mutually enjoyable sex roleplay but this man seems to be using the concept in order to confuse you and get away with abusing you.

if you are happy with him and feel its all sorted now and unlikely to happen again, thats your choice to make

personally, it wouldnt really bother me, might irritate me a bit, but definitely no stronger than that

He said you encouraged him?? Is he serious?? From your OP it is very very clear that you stated quite strongly that you didn't want to have sex. If that constitutes encouraging him, then how on earth do you put him off??

OP I'm very worried by the fact that you mentioned you were wearing pyjamas to "reinforce the fact" that you didn't want to have sex. That would suggest to me that he has pressured you more subtly before and that you don't feel that a simple no will do the trick if you don't want to have sex - you have to cover yourself up in order not to "encourage" him

You should be able to lie naked with your partner, cuddle and kiss him, even touch him, and then say no to sex. A decent man will say, "that's fine" and perhaps ask if he can masturbate. He won't continue with things that you don't want regardless of your feelings.

What you described in your OP was very clearly a rape situation. I am guessing that previously you have seemed reluctant to have sex and he has pressured you so much that you've given in. On this occasion you weren't so easy to convince and so he decided that seeing as his tactics were no longer working he'd take it one step further and just go ahead without your consent. He clearly thinks he has a right to sex and that whether you want it or not is irrelevant. He may say he won't do this again, but I wouldn't believe him for a second.

"I warned him not to as it would be bound to turn him on and he would want it to lead to things but he carried on"

Decent men don't even need to be told this, they are perfectly able to be aroused and then stop, it doesn't harm in any way , shape or form.

As for wearing clothing to "reinforce" the fact that you didn't want sex, words fail me, even if you were naked and you were lying entwined with him, that still doesn't give him permission to start having sex on you and carry on when you've said no.

A man who does this thinks he and his sexual urges are more important than gaining your consent, to me that is not forgivable.

Your entire series of posts indicate - though you do not want them to - that this man is one you should get yourself very, very far away from.

Well done on withdrawing your 'forgiveness' and starting to question. Keep questioning. Your instincts are RIGHT. As are 99% of people on this thread.

Good grief, I echo what all but one have written on here. Please listen to the overwhelming view of his actions to give you some perspective, as it's clear to me that you're normalising the things he has done. This is NOT normal you know, no woman should have to live with this, and then to start blaming yourself, or seeking excuses for it. It is not you, it is him.

I am worried for you, how do you feel about it all this morning?

I don't quite know what to think. It must mean something that so many people have said the same thing. Although I don't think having a safe word originally was dodgy, I do think he was trying to use it as an excuse for what happened. I suppose it is possible that he is secretly manipulating me, but I can't really take that in - it sounds almost like a conspiracy theory to me. We have been together 5 years. I had two relationships before that, one sixth form boyfriend and one sort of fling. He has been married before.

Why did his marriage end?

I lost nearly 20 years to someone who was never at fault and whose 'needs' always trumped mine. I'll never get it back.

You mean like the conspiracy to make the public believe that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction?

Or the conspiracy to make the public believe that politicians give a shit for the electorate?

There's obviously no truth in conspiracy theories, is there?