Think I have decided to forgive him for this, wondered if others would do the same

[kittyfishersknickers]

This happened a few months ago but is something I'm still thinking about. We were sleeping in the same bed but I had made it clear that I didn't want to have sex and he was fine with this. I was wearing pyjamas (well, leggings and top) to reinforce this fact. When we turned the light out I settled on my side facing away from him and after a few minutes he scootched across the bed and starting nuzzling me. I warned him not to as it would be bound to turn him on and he would want it to lead to things but he carried on. He tried to take my leggings off but I told him this was annoying and to stop, same when he put his hand up my top. Even though I kept telling him not to, he held onto me quite firmly and started having sex with me. After a few minutes he could tell I was not really into it and stopped, but then lay there fidgeting and obviously not about to go to sleep as he was so frustrated, so I said he could carry on.

For a while he refused to admit that he had done anything wrong, saying that I hadn't used a special safe word we have used before, and that because I had let him at the end it validated the whole thing. I did see his point, although still wasn't that happy. But we talked about it again recently and now he admits that he was too pressuring and went too far. There was nothing violent about any of it and he is now very sorry he did it, and I think now actually realises what his actions could be called. At the end of the discussion he seemed pretty upset by this and so I told him it was OK.

Do you think it's possible to do something like that but really not intend it and to never do it again?

Yes it was rape.

Sorry that this happpened to you.

technically yes. legally yes.
i have found that counselling is not an exact science.....not all counsellors are a good fit for the problem or you as a person.

maybe keep trying to find a counsellor who does you some good.

I'm not really sure I'm cut out for counselling. I can't really do it - I just shut down and come across like a massive bitch and then I think the counsellor doesn't like me. And I can't stand the 'no reaction' bit. It makes me feel stupid. Can anyone recommend any good books? I've read Germaine Greer's ones and Naomi Wolf.

Thoughts just got a bit stirred up reading the 'helping my daughter be less likely to be assaulted' discussion. I wish I could say do xyz but in fact there is nothing you can do.

He raped you. He knows it, you know it. How are you supposed to get past the fact that he raped you? Why should you even try to get past it?

He did a terrible thing. You don't need anyone's permission to move on and put it behind you. Do you really think you should have to try again with this man?

nor was i re the counselling.....how many have you tried? my first one i now realise i should have punched in the face....

they arent all good.

but a good one will help you sort out your head and work out why you do what you do.

Why do you think you focused so much on how you come across and what the counsellor thinks of you?

It's not about what she thinks of you, but about doing what's best for you.

Same goes for your relationship, by the way: being dominated by what he expects of you, rather than being confident about your own wants and needs.

I do see parallels here which a counsellor could help you unpack. It is very complicated, and ultimately self-defeating, to go through life focusing on how others view us and what we think they might expect from us, rather than being focused and centred on our own needs first.

Please give counseling another try.

Sounds like he gets off on it , sorry just my intution with men , sorry it has upset you so much, but No MEANS NO, HE SHOULD NOT HAVE PRESSURISED you would you ever do that to him? , ask yourself this question and maybe it will help you realise he was in the wrong no matter how sorry he is, good luck BIG HUG to you.

Thanks. I am not usually particularly bothered about what other people think of me, if anything I lean towards being too self-centred.

I have had a good counsellor before but that was at university. I don't even feel that upset about it anymore, although I think it's changed the way I think and feel. I'm even less trusting than I was. But maybe that's not a bad thing.

I just want to figure out WHY he did it. Was it just for the sake of having sex? He won't go into details.

Yes he raped you.

Please try to find a good counsellor, they can help you change your life so much for the better.

In my inexpert opinion, he raped you because he could. You deserve better than a rapist my dear, please get help to get away from this man completely.

Glastocat,teaandsympathy, hotdamn, inadeeptrance and vicar - do you think its the first time he had done something like that? Could someone do it for the first time in their early 50s or are they more likely to have done it before do you think?

Maybe not rape specifically, but viewing you/others as a thing to be used rather than a sovereign human being will be part of an entrenched mindset.

Look at the way you were walking on eggshells and wearing clothes in bed as a barrier even before the act: it is clear what he's like, you'd sensed it already.

no, it is undoubtedly not the first time he has done it. I did a day of training on rapists, and they fall into 4 categories.

your man is a compensatory rapist - they do not think of themselves as rapists, they never use violence, their thinking is distorted, they think that women mean yes when they say no, and afterwards they will normalise their actions.

he will have done it before.

What type of counselling did you have? Psychoanalytic?

I do sometimes wonder what really happened in his first marriage.

Still seems so strange to label him as a 'rapist'. I don't think you would guess in a million years if you actually knew him. I'm sure if I told people who know him what happened they would never believe me.

Not sure Chief. Psychoanalytic I think?

The way you've described it sounds like that. I guess I would say that there are many different modalities (types) of counselling practice. Then there is the personality of the therapist - they are all different and it's fine to say sorry, this isn't working for me. They expect you to shop around until you find the right counsellor for you.

I did Gestalt for a while - very different from psychoanalytic. It might be worth exploring a bit further.

Another thing I would say is that your negative feelings about yourself might be the very thing you need to start working on. You can sometimes make remarkable discoveries by coming at things from a tangent.

Yes, there are a lot of different types of counselling. I also didn't get on with psychoanalytical - that silence is quite hard to deal with, especially for women.

Have a look at the BACP website and talk to a few different ones on the phone.

I'm not surprised you're not angry - it's a way of coping because actually the enormity of being raped by a man that you trust is horrible.

I'm so sorry you've had this happen to you

Still not sure why I can't get more angry about it...
It's strange, isn't it? Mine was 12 years ago and I've literally never felt a single moment's anger towards him (although God knows I'm angry about everything else, all the time - maybe it's all the anger I "should" feel towards him, deflected in any and all other directions). Why aren't we angry? You'd have thought it would be our immediate reaction: fury and indignation. I've wondered if in my case it's because I feel, on some level, that I deserved nothing better. I don't know.

Thoughts just got a bit stirred up reading the 'helping my daughter be less likely to be assaulted' discussion. I wish I could say do xyz but in fact there is nothing you can do.
Yeah. That thread. I was going to comment but I just couldn't, I was beside myself with... something. Rage? Grief? Frustration? I don't know, but whatever it was, it rendered me utterly inarticulate. I think I just hid the thread in the end. I hope some of the people commenting on that thread simply don't understand how breathtakingly cruel they seem to people like me. The alternative to ignorance is the possibility that they really do think it was my responsibility, which is hard to bear.

I don't even feel that upset about it anymore, although I think it's changed the way I think and feel. I'm even less trusting than I was. But maybe that's not a bad thing.
I was the same: not out-and-out devastated, just... changed. I totally understand your reservations about counselling, and I don't want to come across like I think I'm older & wiser, but I also think that if you could find a therapist who isn't a complete and utter fuckwit (and a LOT of them are just DICKS) then it might well be very helpful. It's a very difficult thing to process: it seems, to me, to make very little sense. I really wish I'd been able to find a decent counsellor shortly after it happened, who could have helped me process it, but I didn't, and now I have PTSD (FML, that diagnosis makes me feel like such a tool) and I'm due to start trauma-focussed CBT in the autumn. The thing that I'm finding hardest to deal with at the moment is the overwhelming regret at not having attacked it sooner: the years I wasted struggling with this, the energy I've poured into grappling futilely with it, the devastation I've allowed it to wreak on my life. Maybe if the effect at the time had been more dramatic, I'd have been more proactive about seeking help? I don't know. Maybe we are just the type of people who don't think we deserve to feel happy all the time, so it doesn't occur to us that feeling a bit bad is something that should be addressed?

I just want to figure out WHY he did it. Was it just for the sake of having sex?
Yeah, I can relate to this, I spent years trying to figure it out. It was like I was trying to solve a puzzle. I'd take it apart, examine every element from every angle, and then try and put it back together again in a way that made sense somehow. I felt like I MUST be able to crack it, like there must be something I just wasn't seeing. Looking back, I don't know what I was trying to achieve, really. Trying to make it make sense, I suppose, because it really does not make any sense at all.

Anyway. Sorry if I've come across like "I know EXACTLY how you feel!!!!" or like I know better than you.

I was reading this thread this afternoon and I sat there and thought 'My God, that's what I used to do.' Although a large shapeless nightie was enough of a hint for my XOH.

I used to do the deed just so he'd leave me alone, he used to shove his hand down my top and I HATED it, I did tell him but it fell on deaf ears.

It kind of made me a little emotional to realise that maybe my OH was a possible rapist.

Maybe you're not angry about it because you are still to some extent in shock. To be angry you have to go through a phase of evaluating something, and perhaps you haven't finished that yet.

If he's only just got around to saying that what he did was wrong, that hasn't given you much impetus for anger - especially as he seems to be so much in control.

Also, as someone who has been sexually abused as a child, if you don't feel that you have rights, you can't feel that they have been abused or trampled on. If it takes a while to feel that you have or had rights in a situation, and that they have been trampled on, then I don't think it's possible to feel angry until you've got to that stage. Until then, you can end up being numb and just surviving.

Sorry, bit long and involved, but hope it helps.

i think you arent angry about it because you cant quite believe that such an emotive word applies to you.

i would approach rape crisis for a counsellor if you feel you would benefit - i think it might be worth it just so you can get your head around it and more importantly where you see the relationship going now.

Thanks everyone, and thanks hopkinette - really helpful/interesting to know how you feel.

I think I always felt that at least half the point of him being with me was to reflect positively on him, being with someone younger and such. And I suppose I believed that I had to justify my position in the relationship by being sexually available. So I probably thought I was pushing my luck to turn him down, as well as not agreeing to marry him or have a baby, both of which things he claimed to want (not really sure he in fact did now). If there was something on telly about someone having a baby he'd say 'Where's mine then?'. But then he told me I'd be a good mother, when everyone in my family would never have said something like that.

I hope you feel better soon hopkinette x

I am so sorry to hear about your situation, OP.

My ex partner never admits he's raped anyone. Rape is a very strong word, I understand. He turned out to be a wanker in many other ways BUT whilst we were together he was so caring of me. He would run me baths, always give me kisses, tell everyone how great I was etc but when I was in bed with him he'd always get onto of me. I'd push his chest but he'd tell me to stop it because it hurt his shoulder (had problems with it) and I said to just stop then. He would just smile and say I didn't REALLY not want to have it. He also used to give me booze (16 onwards) and then not drink himself and then get me to stuff and taped it and put it onto the internet (I didn't know this until we broke up and a friend told me that someone else had seen it and I was mortified). But now he's an evil git and was then too, I just didn't see it.

I didn't want to call myself a rape victim. I was told I had been raped over and over again but I thought that you couldn't possibly be raped more than once, that you couldn't be raped by a partner and that rape is always violent. Although having said that he was somewhat verbally violent "Shut up" or "Leave it, bitch" but nothing physical except restraining my hands. But I refused to call it rape as it's such a horrible, shocking thing and to be a victim - I felt bad enough already but to call myself something that basically means you're the most vulnerable ever - that just shook me and I just couldn't accept it. Plus, I hated myself as I stayed with him, knew he could be aggressive in the past as he did something in the past and I stupidly thought he'd changed.

It's sometimes subtle what I'm trying to say. It might not be hardcore violence but it still shakes you. If it was normal and it was OK don't you think that it would've been out of your head by now?

Just think long and hard about how you feel about this relationship and it's never OK to have to wear clothes or anxiously have to repeat no over and over again in fear that your partner wont accept it. No is an OK thing to say whether you are a man or a woman.

I hope you are feeling okay today, OP. :(

Altruistic - sounds quite similar (apart from the videoing things, that is AWFUL). Mine used to try and get me drunk quite a lot, now I come to think of it, was always encouraging me to drink. I am small and a lightweight so doesn't take much to get me wasted. Looking back there are a fair few evenings with him I can't remember much of.

The situation now is we still see each other quite a lot but have not had sex in a while because I just can't.