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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Think I have decided to forgive him for this, wondered if others would do the same

364 replies

kittyfishersknickers · 05/01/2012 22:52

This happened a few months ago but is something I'm still thinking about. We were sleeping in the same bed but I had made it clear that I didn't want to have sex and he was fine with this. I was wearing pyjamas (well, leggings and top) to reinforce this fact. When we turned the light out I settled on my side facing away from him and after a few minutes he scootched across the bed and starting nuzzling me. I warned him not to as it would be bound to turn him on and he would want it to lead to things but he carried on. He tried to take my leggings off but I told him this was annoying and to stop, same when he put his hand up my top. Even though I kept telling him not to, he held onto me quite firmly and started having sex with me. After a few minutes he could tell I was not really into it and stopped, but then lay there fidgeting and obviously not about to go to sleep as he was so frustrated, so I said he could carry on.

For a while he refused to admit that he had done anything wrong, saying that I hadn't used a special safe word we have used before, and that because I had let him at the end it validated the whole thing. I did see his point, although still wasn't that happy. But we talked about it again recently and now he admits that he was too pressuring and went too far. There was nothing violent about any of it and he is now very sorry he did it, and I think now actually realises what his actions could be called. At the end of the discussion he seemed pretty upset by this and so I told him it was OK.

Do you think it's possible to do something like that but really not intend it and to never do it again?

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 27/01/2012 19:08

kitty "getting back on the horse" is for people who have fallen off a horse

not for someone who is frozen and trying to fight a nicely-cooking sexual hang-up because their partner had sex on them without consent

can you see that ?

kittyfishersknickers · 27/01/2012 22:01

I don't have any doubt about the technicality of what he did. I know technically it's rape. You actually do have to obtain consent, or reasonably believe that consent has been given, before you have sex with someone. Intent is irrelevant.

I still don't believe he had actively bad intentions. I think he is perhaps not very emotionally intelligent. I agree with AnyFucker that rape is about power not sex, but I think this was about sex. He just really wanted to have sex. That doesn't make it OK, but it does make it seem more dumb, less sinister.

I don't have much family, and am not close to any I do have so they have never met him. He doesn't have that many friends, or at least we don't really have friends in common. He says I'm his only real friend, although he does have a social life. I have no interest in meeting the rest of his family (parents and sister). They are not like him and I know we won't get on. So I guess our relationship is quite immune from outside scrutiny.

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madonnawhore · 27/01/2012 22:19

Kitty I've been reading your thread since the beginning and haven't commented before now because I wasn't sure I had anything to add to the (mostly) good advice you've already been given.

But in case this is of any help to you at all, I'll say this: your husband sounds like a very controlling, insidious influence in your life. It's obvious from your posts that you second guess yourself at every thought and look to others for validation. I think you are very vulnerable to him and I hope you continue with your counselling as I think it's entirely right that you're questioning the influence he has over you and the disgusting way he's behaving towards you sexually.

He raped you. He doesn't want you to talk about it. His way of making things better is to continue to coerce you into having sex with him even though you don't really want to.

You're having these doubts and feelings for a reason. Listen to your instincts. They're trying to protect you from him, even though your conscious mind is telling you everything would just be so much easier if you could forget all about this nasty business and carry on as normal.

As I'm sure he'd prefer you to do.

madonnawhore · 27/01/2012 22:20

One last thing. Stop letting him dictate the terms of your conversation. You can talk about whatever you want to talk about. He's the one in the wrong here.

windsorTides · 27/01/2012 23:12

So you're not married then and your relationship is in a cocoon?

I think that's so relevant to the situation you find yourself in Kitty. Your friend can't help you because she doesn't know him, you minimised what happened and she can probably sense you're defensive about him.

Has the counselling unearthed why you're attracted to an older man who thinks he knows what's best for you and overrides your boundaries?

AnyFucker · 27/01/2012 23:25

kitty, tell me to shut up if I am wrong

is your partner married to someone else ?

yellowraincoat · 28/01/2012 03:17

Your relationship sounds fucked up and exactly like the relationship I had with my ex-boyfriend.

He was a controlling fuckwit as well.

joblot · 28/01/2012 09:09

I think not knowing each others family and friends is rather peculiar, how can you know you won't get on? I've met a few people who keep family away from. partner and it wasn't for honest reasons.

ThatVikRinA22 · 29/01/2012 18:48

hi again kitty

it sounds like you are being used. You sound like an intelligent woman who is just starting to work this out for yourself, something isn't right here, you sense it, your going to counselling about it, i hope you find the answers.

kittyfishersknickers · 29/01/2012 20:30

AnyFucker - no. He was though.

I suppose we do live fairly separate lives, at least by most people's standards. My work is based in London, I work at least 60 hrs a week. His is based in another city. We spend weekends together and other random days/nights depending on schedule. I am happy with this. He has offered to get married, I'm not interested. We do know each others' friends but don't really socialise together.

Tbh I think we probably use each other. I am capable of bad behaviour too. He has put up with my sometimes quite intense emotional/intellectual connections with other men, dumping him then taking him back etc. I can do no wrong in his eyes - he thinks I'm perfect. I suppose one reason I don't want to end this relationship is I'm apprehensive that if I end it I won't find someone else who with put up with the way I am. It's a trade-off.

(Now waiting for all support to evaporate away from the manipulative witch!)

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 29/01/2012 20:40

ok kitty, thanks for answering my direct question

he is divorced, decree nisi, right ?

but you know, all things being equal, your bravado leaves me cold

if you want us to envy your position, it ain't never gonna happen

I still fear for you

yellowraincoat · 29/01/2012 20:44

You sound like you have no self esteem. He shouldn't just "put up with" you. He should love you for who you are. If you want the sort of relationship where you have emotional connections with others besides your partners, well, you should find someone who also wants that, rather than just puts up with it.

kittyfishersknickers · 29/01/2012 20:52

I don't think any man actively wants his partner to have interests in men other than him, or woman for that matter.

Why would I want you to envy me? Not many people want to live like I do. I know I'm unusual. I'm happy to have separate lives up to a point.

OP posts:
windsorTides · 29/01/2012 20:53

Kitty I take it you mean that your relationship started while he was still married and with his wife?

Is there anything about staying with him because you feel responsible for the sacrifice he made?

It does explain why you want to compete with his ex-wife and appear to be 'better' than her - and it also explains why you've given into pressure from him sexually.

At an intellectual level, I'd have thought you could see how fucked-up this relationship is. I hope the counselling is getting to the bottom of why you make these choices in your relationships.

AnyFucker · 29/01/2012 21:04

I also am convinced if not some infidelity here, certainly some overlap

I don't know how else to explain your utter self-delusion re. boundaries from a so-called intelligent and otherwise self-aware woman

DoesntBodenWell · 29/01/2012 21:09

I think some of you are being a little unfair. The OP knows the minutiae of her relationship, we don't.

Calling her self deluded is harsh, very.

AnyFucker · 29/01/2012 21:12

if you haven't read all the thread, DBW, then I might think you had a valid opinion

if you have, then yes, you have an opinion

but it ain't valid

DoesntBodenWell · 29/01/2012 21:15

Yes AF, I have read the whole thread.

Why isn't my opinion valid?

DoesntBodenWell · 29/01/2012 21:16

Do you know the minutiae of her relationship?

BreakOutTheKaraoke · 29/01/2012 22:19

Could it be possible that he's using sex as the weapon to get back at you for what you've done? That you are the one who has been in control of whether you are together or not, and this is his awful way of trying to get the power back?

Abitwobblynow · 30/01/2012 12:00

There are other things he could have done.

He could have talked to you, let you know how much he wanted you, reminisced how seeing you for the first time made him feel, how ML w you was the first time ever ... (that romance would have relaxed the knees I am sure)

He could have stroked you tenderly and lovingly whilst saying all the above

He could have made you laugh

Have you pointed any of that out to him? That all the above acknowledges you as a human being, a precious person..

And what he did made you an object and all about him.

Hmmm, has he done anything in the past (treating you like a nothing) that you don't like? Are you married, how long have you been together?

kittyfishersknickers · 30/01/2012 22:23

Quite possibly, BreakOut. It actually happened after one of my breaking up with him then getting back together episodes, which happened after he proposed to me. I didn't want to have sex because I wasn't ready, wanted us to just be platonic for a bit.

Re lack of awareness around boundaries, I think I probably don't have great respect for boundaries myself, so I am (too?) understanding about it in others.

OP posts:
kittyfishersknickers · 06/07/2012 00:10

Thought I should update: we are still together (sort of). I have moved out and see a lot less of him now. Don't really feel like sex most of the time and he is OK with that. He seems to have finally realised he did something wrong - said 'I knew you didn't want to and I overstepped the line.' Wasn't distraught or anything but quite factual.

Still not sure why I can't get more angry about it...

OP posts:
HotDAMNlifeisgood · 06/07/2012 00:19

Still not sure why I can't get more angry about it...

Is that a question you would like to examine with a counsellor?

kittyfishersknickers · 06/07/2012 00:29

I tried. It didn't really work. I wasn't really giving off any emotion in the sessions and she wasn't returning anything so I gave up.

It was rape though, wasn't it? I mean technically, legally.

OP posts:
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