Think I have decided to forgive him for this, wondered if others would do the same

[kittyfishersknickers]

This happened a few months ago but is something I'm still thinking about. We were sleeping in the same bed but I had made it clear that I didn't want to have sex and he was fine with this. I was wearing pyjamas (well, leggings and top) to reinforce this fact. When we turned the light out I settled on my side facing away from him and after a few minutes he scootched across the bed and starting nuzzling me. I warned him not to as it would be bound to turn him on and he would want it to lead to things but he carried on. He tried to take my leggings off but I told him this was annoying and to stop, same when he put his hand up my top. Even though I kept telling him not to, he held onto me quite firmly and started having sex with me. After a few minutes he could tell I was not really into it and stopped, but then lay there fidgeting and obviously not about to go to sleep as he was so frustrated, so I said he could carry on.

For a while he refused to admit that he had done anything wrong, saying that I hadn't used a special safe word we have used before, and that because I had let him at the end it validated the whole thing. I did see his point, although still wasn't that happy. But we talked about it again recently and now he admits that he was too pressuring and went too far. There was nothing violent about any of it and he is now very sorry he did it, and I think now actually realises what his actions could be called. At the end of the discussion he seemed pretty upset by this and so I told him it was OK.

Do you think it's possible to do something like that but really not intend it and to never do it again?

....or it is just a man who puts his own wants before his partners, but dresses it up, turns it around, and makes out that he is doing you a favour by being so caring, so nurturing, that you have always failed to question those rumblings at the back of your mind because he has quickly restored your faith in him, but what concerns me, is that he works to his agenda and no one elses and he sweetens you up while thinking 'sod what you want'.

Been thinking about this thread a lot, I don't usually but I'm finding it a little unsettling.

DH and I have been together 10 years and we consider our relationship to be solid and loving...there have been, of course the usual ups and downs that affect, I think, most relationships.

I'm going to be really honest here, and really I'm not usually very open (either on MN or in RL).

I generally have a higher sex drive than DH, and find this frustrating at times..on more than 2 occasions I have cajoled for some time and have actually grabbed his d**k and tried to make him erect. He made it clear he wasn't interested and said 'no' a number of times (he was cross) prior to me grabbing it.

I also once managed to make him erect and straddled him (after he said no, he pushed me off..caused a big row).

We were also rowing over DS1 (behaviour, we werent arguing in front of DS1) and it descended into one of those stupid contemptuous arguments and he pushed past me quite hard and I punched him on the shoulder.

These are over a period of 10 years, not all in one go. But according to the people on this thread I am technically guilty of sexual abuse, rape (according to the internet, I wasn't sure about that, so I checked) and assault.

If my DH had decided to report me, I could be sitting in prison now and he would be bringing up our DS's alone. And by the sounds of it, most people on this thread would consider that this is exactly where I should be!!!

I asked DH if he thought I had ever done anything physically abusive to him he said 'Well you hit me once' (the shoulder punching incident I mentioned). He didn't mention anything else.

Upset you would all think so badly of me. Just got to get this out..probably going to hide thread now.

you are being slightly ridiculous rosijiminy but you have been honest so i will respond honestly with my initial thoughts to your post - firstly you think that with one report you go to prison? it doesnt work like that. You are being silly and hysterical but yes, for what its worth, and from what you described, you behaved terribly toward your DH. No one has the right to dictate to another when they will have sex, no one has the right to take that control away from them, and no one has the right to hit someone because they are frustrated or annoyed.

you are derailing the thread, so i hope you have hidden it. This thread isnt about you and your guilt about trying to force your husband into sex or hitting him.
this thread is about supporting someone who is questioning the dynamics of her own relationship, and that is something that she has the right to do without you piping up that you are guilty of the same as her husband - so what? its ok then, because you have done it? and you think your are what?? respectable? that what you did was ok?
its not and i dont think this is the thread to absolve yourself of your own guilt on or make excuses for your behaviour.

I didn't mean to derail the thread, I'm sorry about that. I was simply upset that people on here would think that I am guilty of sexual assault or rape. It's never occurred to me that people would think that of me, and I feel anxious about it now. FWIW I am a decent, loving person in spite of what anyone thinks, and I would never knowingly hurt anyone. Anyway, i'll go.

kitty

Close friends of mine have had a relationship much like yours. He was 14 years older, on his second marriage when he married my friend (she was 21). He took care of her and everything. She was 'content' like this. No children, did not work, was cared for by her husband in very sense. They got divorced last year. He was bored of having a 'child' to care for although he had very definitely kept her this way and it suited them both for a long while. She is lonely, an alcoholic and struggling.

Please don't be my friend. I am NOT saying leave him (though you know what I think!) but do be independent and strong.

The thing is, I do feel like I am generally quite an independent person.

Sex has become quite difficult for me now. I don't really respond, just let it happen, and keep my eyes closed. I think it will probably just take time.

WRT sex - you think kitty? really??

i would ask your DH to move into another room while you work this out. WTF are you doing, having sex that you find difficult? you need to ask yourself why you are doing this.

it all comes back to the same issue. you need to work that one out for yourself though.

I don't know, I suppose I thought it would help. He knows how I'm feeling but feels I should 'climb back on the horse' so to speak and get used to it again

again - he knows how im feeling but feels i should 'climb back on the horse'

why - why kitty - is this all about him again?

why are you pussyfooting around his feelings and completely ignoring your own?
why dont you matter in this relationship?
why is it all about his wants and his feelings and his needs?

you need to ask these questions of yourself, at your next counselling sessions.

Your posts scare me because about twenty years ago I was you.
My partner raped me and afterwards I went off sex so such he called me frigid.
I put up with him for another two years during which I was constantly subconsciously scared he would do it again - he didn't but turned to other forms of abuse
When we did split up I suddenly found out I wasnt actually frigid just terrified of him

Please do yourself a favour and dont waste any longer with him

I haven't read all the thread, and I am not going to get into a debate about rape etc... but I have been through a similar situation.

My now ex-husband pressured me constantly into sex straight after giving birth to our daughter. He would sulk and throw tantrums about how I wasn't having sex with him, despite needing time to heal after the labour (had a large number of stitches). One night he pressured me so much, and tried to repeatedly instigate sex when he was turned on.. I was exhausted and lacking in confidence, and when he forced himself on me... I didn't really stop him. Part way through, I was in pain and started crying at him to stop but he carried on until he was 'finished'. He was then angry that I was crying, and turned over and went to sleep. I told my Mum the next day because I felt ill about it, and she effectively told me to 'grin and bear it' and just get it over with and then he would leave me alone! I never saw it as rape, because I didn't straight out say no at the beginning and felt because I didn't that I had lead him on.
He tried again numerous times after but I felt so sick to even be touched by him that I would do ANYTHING to avoid any intimacy with him.

My ex has NEVER acknowledged what he did, and appears to have selective memory over the entire thing. I never regained trust in him, and to add to the mix, I became fearful of sex hurting (to the point it affected my next relationship). This led to my ex also making out I was frigid and something was wrong with me.

Even if you forgive him, he has violated your trust and your body. This will affect things from now on between you both. Although I didn't actively do anything at the time because of my state of mind, I honestly think that this was the beginning of the end of that relationship. From what you have written, you made it clear that you didn't want sex, and he still did this, but you have also reflected (at least by how you have written it) that he has no care really for you, and that his 'apology' has only come after you have made an issue of it, so he realises he's been caught out. I think you really need to evaluate your relationship with him, you shouldn't need safe words, you shouldn't need to wear a protective armour of clothes in bed. My partner (now)doesn't even need to be told 'no' to know when I don't want sex...
Be careful, and I hope whatever you do choose to do, I hope it really is what's best for you, although I fear the damage may have already been done x

Also, RosieJimminy, I am sorry, but I was frankly quite appalled that you did that to your husband... that is no different to what is happening in this thread... you should have respect for your partner... if he didn't want sex, you shouldn't have forced him... I don't think I could feel good about myself knowing that I did that to my partner.
Maybe I am far more sensitive about it after my experience, but I don't think you can say that to justify what the OP is going through as not being a form of sexual abuse.

1. in·sid·i·ous

   [in-sid-ee-uhs]

adjective

operating or proceeding in an inconspicuous or seemingly harmless way but actually with grave effect: an insidious disease.

1. Emotional intelligence - "the subset of social intelligence that involves the ability to monitor one's own and others' feelings and emotions, to discriminate among them and to use this information to guide one's thinking and actions".

No1 defines this thread. No2 is seriously lacking on this thread.

Hi RosieJimminy

Have you tried looking up the meaning of 'irony'? Just a thought

Katy, that is very scary. I think if I had been crying mine would have stopped but I can see there is really not that much difference between the two.

Kitty, I am not on here to change your mind (to do that I would need 20+ others to say the same thing, isn't that how it works?).

If you asked 1000 people, from all walks of life the same question you would have a far more balanced response. Not everything is black and white.

Except on MN.

To me, this is a black and white case. She made it clear she didn't want to have sex, he insisted and carried on despite having no consent.

That is rape, clear and simple.

If I try to imagine my partner doing that to me, it's just unbelievable. Why would he DO that? It's horrible.

I agree that on MN, people can see things in a very black and white way and that is not always appropriate. This is not one of those cases though.

Ok. The man who continues for a short while after his wife says stop, the wife is pissed off but moves on and thinks no more of it. The wife who straddles her husband when he doesn't want her to, he's annoyed but unconcerned. The man who forcibly pins down his wife whilst threatening her. The woman who gets a stranger pissed and straddles him in his sleep, despite him saying 'No' earlier. The man who rapes a stranger at knifepoint.

All exactly the same scenarios. All rapists. All should be treated the same. Black and white.

He pushed you off, RosieJimminy. Sorry, but why are you trying to defend what you did and make light of it even? It looks like you're trying to introduce violence into your argument to further widen the gap between what you did and what others do. There are plenty of rapists who don't see the consequences of what they do/did - the person who was raped feels it though, sooner or later.

I'd leave it if I were you, really.

Yes, they are all rapists.

Should they all be treated the same? Someone who threatens someone with a knife would also be done for that as well, hopefully.

I think it's extremely dangerous to think of rape only as a stranger down an alley jumping on you. Most rapes are not like that at all.

Um... That isn't actually what we're talking about, Rosie. I hate to be narcissistic, but we're talking about my particular situation. If you want to talk about yours, or about varying levels of seriousness in sexual assault that's fine but can you do it somewhere else?

Bobits' post up the thread makes me sad and very uncomfortable. It's sometimes a lot easier to pretend it didn't happen - or dress it up as something else - as a form of self-preservation. You can't sweep it under the carpet forever though, you always know that it's 'there' and sooner or later you'll have to acknowledge and deal with what happened. The chickens come home to roost... never a truer phrase spoken. :(

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Rosie - you being horrid to someone who is feeling her way as regards her relationship. She is dealing with more than...well I think it is called rape but people do (unfortunately) have different definitions.

The OP has very politely asked you to take your conversation elsewhere.

I have reported your posts.

I never bloody said that. READ my words.