I feel like I married a lie

[Achange]

I have been with dh for 4years and only married 1 year

I have a dd from a previous relationship and dh and I have dd2 who is only 3 months old.

My last realtionship was awful I was abused and cheated on by a man who I found out was a sex addict who used porn. This man made my life hell including trying to sleep with a family member on the night dd1 was born and I was in hdu.

As you can imagine I wanted my next realtionship to be the opposite including no porn. Dh knew this and although he very occasionally used to use it he said he had no interest anymore and wanted the same as me; a wholesome and proper family

About 2 years ago I saw in his history he had clicked on redtube but not gone any further. This was enough to upset me and dh assured me it was weakness and never happen again. But I saw it again in his history and he made up so e rubbish about clearing out an old hard rive. He kept to this story for 2 years

But I knew he was lying and kept having bad dreams about it etc

He finally admitted two days before Christmas he visited redtube.

He tells me he did it as he had ed problems at the time and was so scared I would get fed up he wanted find other ways to please me. Yeah right.

I know it's sad and old fashioned not to accept porn but I'm sorry but I can't and dh knew this and did it anyway and lied two whole years. He presented himself as some great family man and "not like other men".

It's all a lie.

No I am not pudding 999 or whatever she is called

Why don't you just ask me outright if your so interested seeing as I'm on here and everything?

to all who took the time to help xxx

It seems you've clarified OP that this is more about the lying than the porn use, but of course the lying has understandably led you to question if there are other untruths to be uncovered.

I think that's understandable, but I think what might be happening with you is that all of this is giving you flashbacks to that other awful time when the deceit was so systemic and so undeniably cruel. If you'd gone into this relationship as a fully healed person, or as someone who hadn't suffered such injury, then this incident perhaps wouldn't have assumed the significance and proportions that it has.

I don't think the comments about you wanting to control your partner, or analogies to religion versus atheism are relevant or helpful. As far as I can see, you laid your cards on the table and your H had a choice whether to agree or not to what you said you needed in a relationship i.e. no porn and no lying. He seems to have agreed, but then reneged on both commitments at the same time, without telling you.

I can imagine that you've had a torrid time this past 2 years and for most of your waking time, perhaps you've argued with your rational and hopeful head that what you suspected wasn't true, that your H's lies have been plausible truths and that all the good feelings you've experienced and the actions you saw every day in your H were genuine indications that this man was a good 'un.

Yet your dreams and subconscious told a different story and couldn't be affected by rational thought.

What I suggest you consider is how much of your 'awake self' can be trusted - the good stuff about your H for example. Are your positive feelings about him corroborated by other people in your life, such as friends and family or your older child? Have you ever had reason to think he was lying about other things? Is he someone who is respectful to women and values them? Does he think all women are equal, or does he categorise women into 'good' and 'bad' sorts, especially in terms of their sexual behaviour?

Then think about your 'asleep self'. Are all your images relating to this husband, or does your exH or other people who've hurt you in the past, feature at all? Try to sift out what relates to this husband and this relationship.

It might also help if you rewrite what would have been a 'good outcome' when your husband first went on to a porn site. How would you have felt if your husband had come to you, told you he had been worried about his sexual responses and had tried a porn site to see whether he managed to sustain an erection that way? How would you have reacted, in honesty? Or if he had come to you and explained that he was very worried about ED and wondered whether porn might help? Be honest in your responses and then ask your husband what stopped him being honest. We have all speculated here about why your husband lied - only he can tell you.

If your conversations are circular, a therapist might be able to help but do bear in mind that like any group in society right now, some will be porn users themselves or will have convinced themselves that it is harmless, in order to sustain their own relationships with a porn user.

Windsor an excellent post and very true. Are you professionally trained?
I am glad that by taking a risk to be honest, no matter how awful it makes me look, in this thread it has allowed yourself and others to help me understand how all these elements of my past and my insecurities have effected my reaction. Which I suppose is unfathomable to many as its more complex than I thought.

For what is worth I do know dh is a very good man aside. Infact he is very gentlemanly and very, very respectful towards women which makes it even harder in some ways as I thought he was different to other men.

I suppose he has fallen from grace as it is not fitting with the rest of his character.

Honest to god if you kept banging on about it for 2 years everytime you had a bad dream I would have confessed to it too, whether I'd done it or not.

Stop expecting the man to be perfect - I bet you aren't.

He looked at porn 3 times, 2 years ago. Get A Grip. He is not your ex.

Unless he is the complete sap from the other thread, if you don't get a grip on yourself he will leave you. There is only so long any one man can put up with this much hand wringing and drama and being called 'a liar'.

If you love him - then take a good look at what you are doing, if you don't, carry on as you are.

It isn't ALL a lie.

You use the words 'wholesome', 'proper family' and 'not like other men' in relation to your dh, as if using/watching/thinking about porn makes him some kind of dirty deranged being. As if it taints your whole family set up, making it something dirty & something to be ashamed of, which it isn't.

Porn doesn't do this, it doesn't make him dirty or deranged, it doesn't make him some kind of ogre & doesn't take away the wholesomeness of your family.

I get that you asked him not to look at it & he has betrayed that, and that is huge to you! But don't let this taint your family & it won't. Don't let this ruin whatever else you have that is good.

To be fair, in the gentlest possible way, it was 2 years ago. He lied, he shouldn't have, but in all fairness you say that you knew in some way, that you had an instinct about it being more than what he said it was, so it is really awful that all he has done has confirmed what you thought you knew? He looked at porn, he lied for a while. He told the truth. I think there is a lot to be said about the fact that he came clean after all this time. I don't think you should let this taint all you have for ever more.

Mmm, curious. Lisaro referred to 'the mad bint'. I referred to Pudding. And you've referred to pudding 999, OP.

I suspect that you are more familiar with 999Pudding than you are willing to admit to.

I thought he was different to other men

You say this a few times, like looking at porn makes some men inferior, dirty, deranged or something. Like it makes them lesser beings!

I suppose he has fallen from grace as it is not fitting with the rest of his character

You have way to high expectations of him. He isn't some kind of saint, or an angel. He is a man, a human, he is going to make mistakes, and you are going to have to accept that it is going to happen. The higher you place him on the pedestal, the further he is going to fall & the more hurt you will get. Regardless of your history, I really do think you are blowing this out of proportion somewhat, and your high expectations of your dh is making it harder for you to process this.

Perhaps if you didn't hold him so high, it wouldn't come as such a shock. He can't be held accountable for your past. He can't live his whole life hoping never to do something that triggers memories of your past.

Your very right Different. Very.

I cannot marry the image of wholesome family man playing with baby to the man who got aroused over redtube. The two collide far too much for me.

The idol with the feet of clay, c2 years of banging on about the 'lie', 2dc, abusive ex?

Are you by any chance planning a holiday to get over this, OP?

Well spotted Lisaro. Bad dreams because you 'knew' he was lying, OP? Hokum.

Here we go again:

A couple of hours ago it was:
'Oh baubles I feel awful. I have made it worse
Thank you so much for reassurring me though and getting me to think of him and not just myself for once'

and now it's:
'I cannot marry the image of wholesome family man playing with baby to the man who got aroused over redtube. The two collide far too much for me'.

Make your mind up and stick to it otherwise you'll be going round in circles and he'll be on a straight line out of the door.

Well, sorry but porn doesn't make him less 'wholesome'. My dh used to look at porn & tbh with you, when I watch him play with our girls I just don't even think about it...it is the last thing on my mind. Because his habits as a man, an individual are NOTHING to do with who he is as a father!

The two are so far apart! I guess it would be kinda like me thinking about what we get up to in bed while he is playing in the pool with the girls....the two memories just don't cross because there is no need for them to.

It's not fair to say that because it doesn't matter to you it shouldn't matter to Achange.

She is only speaking from her own personal pov, and you are speaking from yours; they are not the same pov, and one is not superior or more right than the other. She has a right to hers and you have a right to yours, and you don't have a right to say yours should be hers.

Although I would have thought there is a difference between sex with your partner and use of porn? So not really so much like associating him and your sexual relationship with his interactions with the DCs, or associating any other habits of his with them.

I personally could not see a man who would blithely use images of someone else's daughters as wank fuel or some sort of commodity available for his personal use as someone who had really thought things through when it came to what women and girls were. At least I would hope he hadn't thought things through and hadn't concluded that it was all fine and why wouldn't women and girls be there for his use and benefit no matter what the personal cost to them?
But again, that is my own personal opinion.

I'm not saying it doesn't/shouldn't matter to her, or that my experiences are right & hers are wrong, math! And I am not saying that she should be thinking "my" way either.

I am pointing out that it is possible for her husband "the sexual being" to be separate from her husband "the father". That she doesn't have to keep seeing his indiscretions as part of who he is as a father or thinking about him getting turned on by whatever, when he is playing with his kids.

What he does in his private life, has nothing to do with how he plays with his kids.

Ach, I feel for you OP, this is a hard situation to be in.

First of all, I have no problem with porn: I know a lot of people do, I just don't. Partner watches it, I watch it. So for me, this wouldn't be a problem, but I can see how it is for you. I'm not sure I think it's fair to go into a relationship with demands. But your partner lied to you and to me that's a big deal.

You are expecting too much from him though. Perfect, wholesome doesn't exist. We are all flawed, we all have filthy and weird thoughts, we are all sexual beings and that's fine, in fact, it's more than fine, it's great. However holier than thou some people act, we all do weird shit sometimes.

He definitely shouldn't have lied to you though, that was twattish. Maybe it got out of hand? He had a sneaky look at some porn, he felt bad, when you mentioned it, it wasn't a big deal in his head - I mean, if porn isn't a big deal to him, maybe it was hard for him to really take it that seriously?

I'm finding it hard to explain, but, for example - where I come from, it's a very piss-taking culture. Everyone calls each other horrible names and uses 50 swear words a minute and feels free to call people on their silly mistakes. My partner comes from a different area and it took me a long time to not just immediately go "you buffoon, you nickumpoop!" every time he said something silly or wrong. I was just so used to acting like that and it was so normal for me that I needed to learn he didn't like it. Could it be similar for your man? Porn just isn't a huge thing to him and he found it hard to not look and then got embroiled in the lie?

Definitely get some counselling though. You seem to have a lot of things in your head that could do with coming out. I love counselling. Free time to chat about yourself. Woop.

'Well, sorry but porn doesn't make him less 'wholesome'. My dh used to look at porn & tbh with you, when I watch him play with our girls I just don't even think about it...it is the last thing on my mind. Because his habits as a man, an individual are NOTHING to do with who he is as a father!'

Actually, I think you did tell her what she should be thinking, and that you were setting her an example of the right way to think.

She hasn't said that she sees her husband/her sexual partner as a stranger or that that sexual partner role of his is incompatible with fatherhood. What she has said is that his lies and the fact that he used porn have made her revisit what she thought she had by way of a man, a husband, and father to their DD.

There is a difference between the role of a man as a sexual partner, and a father to young children, and that of a man as a user of porn. I personally do not see how someone can love his own children but not feel a responsibility to the children of others and instead use them for his own gratification. Porn models/actors/actresses are someone's children. To divide people into categories like that, and cherish some and use others -- that would greatly diminish someone in my eyes. Again, my own personal feeling there.

I think the question of how much of a private life you are entitled to when married is an interesting one but not the central one here. If both parties have agreed that porn use by whatever partner wants to use it is ok, then that is fine. But if both parties have agreed that porn use is not on then the question of changing the agreement should have been brought up openly by the party wishing to change. In this case, an agreement has been ignored and on top of that, lies have created their own ripples.

I've done a U-turn on the subject of porn. I used to be ever so easy-going about it, then started going off it without really wondering why. In recent years I've learned a lot more - and the industry has changed - to the extent that I now have very low tolerance indeed. I would not accept porn use, lapdancing and so forth in any future partner. My last had little interest in porn but was addicted to lapdancing and prostitutes. You can't extrapolate one behaviour from the other, but you can read contempt for women into the whole spectrum.

However ... OP, the fact that porn is the issue with you doesn't make your problem about porn itself. It seems to me that many of your respondents have assumed it is. What it's about, surely, is that you have a deep-set aversion to something; let's call it a phobia. Your H knew all about it but still did the thing which terrifies you.

Let's imagine you had, say, a monster aversion to rats: such that any hint of rats sends you into a state of terror. You tell your boyfriend about this, he swears to protect you from rats and he's never much liked them, either. Then you find little rodent footprints in the spare room. It turns out he got a pet rat, but felt it best not to mention Rattie in view of your phobia.

Was it reasonable of him to do the one thing you can't stand? I say, no, it wasn't. Never mind lying, he just shouldn't have done it in the first place. Lying is worse, because he could have tried to discuss it with you and reached some sort of compromise. Instead, he assumed control of your feelings, so as to be able to do what he wanted. I'm not surprised this has upset you. It's exactly what people do when they have affairs, telling themselves "It'd only hurt her if she knew."

A good relationship requires trust and respect, not secrecy and control.

I've written this immensely long post to make one small point, really. Others have made it, too: It is a problem that he chose to disrespect your very strong feelings, and that he chose to decide what you should know or feel.

If your marriage is as good as you say in all other respects, then perhaps it will be best to insist on some Relate counselling together. You might also want to consider counselling to help you resolve the emotional injuries your bastard ex inflicted. But I don't feel you're being unreasonable or ridiculous - this is a couple issue, not just "your problem".

Hope some of that made some sense?

Math, you are are twisting my words. I am not telling her how to think, not at all.

'Well, sorry but porn doesn't make him less 'wholesome''

I think telling her what does or does not make her DH less wholesome is telling her how to think.

So do I, Math. Others have mentioned religion and politics as potential deal-breakers but been told "it's not the same". I think it is. I went out with a man who claimed to have no interest in politics. After a long time - years - it slowly dawned that he held the sort of right-wing, white supremacist views I absolutely can't tolerate (as he knew).

Like OP, I felt as though he'd suddenly turned into a man I wouldn't even have had a second coffee with, never mind a long-term relationship! Of course, he hadn't suddenly turned into anything. He'd just decided I didn't need to know who he really was. Many other people might feel politics don't matter that much and IWBU. But they matter that much to me ... he shouldn't have even been in a relationship with me, and wouldn't have been if he'd any respect for me and my feelings.

My exH told me after we had several children that he would prefer to have the children fear him than love him. It was his central child-rearing philosophy. If he had mentioned that while we were dating I would have broken it off with him. Mind you he also omitted the little detail about being bi (or maybe it was gay).

Windsor speaks sense, Achange.

I don't know what Lisa and Izzy are on about, and have no reason to believe that Achange is anything other than she states here. If you have reason to believe she is not, may I suggest you contact MNHQ instead of making snide comments.

How are you feeling today, Achange? You had a lot of food for thought last night.

I do agree with Different. A look at porn on three occasions 2 years ago does not make your DH a bad father.

I suspect that your ex was both a habitual porn user and a bad father, so that you have that connection in your mind. Baubles made the very good point last night that by making any kind of connection between your ex and your H, you are allowing your ex to still have control over you life.

The other point that I agree with is that no man is perfect. You have to allow your H to make mistakes occasionally, and to admit them to you.

Here is something that you might find interesting, it is about parenting and teaching but I can see parallels in the example of the teachers - the very strict teachers who used their power to control their class by being strict:

"Their approach didn?t make us any more likely to behave, just more likely to hide our bad behaviour from them, and to do the bare minimum to keep them happy."

You run the risk that he will become more secretive if you read too much into this and make too much of a fuss.

Not saying you should accept the porn usage, but at some point you have to put this behind you and see the good man that you married and not the one time transgression.

Op just to offer some reassurance, if your husband really is the author of the other thread I doubt you have much to fear. The idea that a man capable of writing that is a master of deceit is laughable. Now both of you put the internet down and talk to each other.

The problem with men who use porn is that they are demanding to see women prostituted on film for their own entertainment. That's a seedy habit whichever way you look at it, and does make a man less of a decent human being than otherwise.

The other thing about men who use porn is that their demand for it, including seeing it all over the internet, means that a generation of children has been exposed to hardcore images in adolescence sometimes even before.

Those two things are enough to condemn a pornography user outright, and not defend him and say things like porn use doesn't make him a bad person. Well in a lot of people's eyes it does.