'D'H punched through door in front of DC

[foggybrain]

We have already talked about seperating, this is the latest in a long line of incidents which seem to be escalating. We had an argument this morning and I did shout at him, so I do feel it is partly my fault. I went out after for 30mins or so and walked back into the house in time to hear him really screaming at our baby. Our three year old and the baby were both hysterically crying. He had lost his temper and punched through a door in front of them both and was screaming at our baby to shut up. 'D' H hasn't even said sorry, has been snappy on and off all day, flying off at the kids and then apologising.

I want him out in the new year. I am telling him this tonight, but he already knows it. What I want to know is what to say to my 3 yo who has been very distressed today. I have already said that Daddy shouldn't have done it, that I am sorry it happened, but feel there is nothing else I can say. I heard DH apologise to her and say it was because he felt poorly (like that's an excuse). Not half an hour later he completely overreacted to her squeezing too much toothpaste out of the tube. I feel sick every time I see the huge hole in the door.

Is there anything else I can say or do to help our three year old?

The baby will have no memory of what has happened, but you've got a very small window of opportunity to get your 3-year-old away before this violent man has a negative impact ... if he hasn't already,

Actually, they both have a terrifying memory of it but it will be subconscious in their later years, throughout their life.

The first 5 years of your life lay down the blueprint for the rest of it.

You owe it to the 3 of you to not co-parent with this man and I agree with everyone else. Get it logged with the police.

Him and his mother are as bad as each other, her for putting the blame on you and him for whinging that he won't be home for Xmas.....again, making it out to be YOUR fault....

Can you contact Women's Aid for help and support? I would definately do it cos you need people in your corner.

And we are all here for you, don't forget that!

(I went thru DV too and left the father of my child, who is now 20 and well-balanced, studying and happy. God knows how he - or I - would've been if I'd never taken that step...).

well done on the steps you have taken so far. But for God's sake, have it officially recorded.

Your babies only have you to protect them from your husband. What are you doing to protect them?

You have done nothing wrong. If you refuse to let him back in the house you will STILL be doing nothing wrong.
Ignore what he says now. It is all about what he DOES. Every single action should be about showing you how sorry he is and how he will make it up to you.
Never mind the tears, they are self pity. He isn't thinking of you or the children but how he can get back into the house and have everything back to how it was before. Except it will be worse because now he will have something to punish you with. - the fact that you threw him out the first time.

How can I say this with such assurance? Because your situation is following a well-established pattern of abuse. All abusers, basically those who feel entitled to put their rights and feelings above yours and your children's in every situation you can think of , unless it suits them to do otherwise, follow a cycle of mean and sweet. It is why these relationships are so hard to leave.

However the good behaviour is just as abusive as the bad, because it is a calculated lie. It's too exhausting to be aggressive all the time, much easier to pretend to be nice and get you back on side.
But that in turn gets tiresome, so the mask slips.
Good relationships don't just happen. They are worked at. Because at some point you will have to put your children's needs and your OH's above your own. That isn't happening here. At a time when he should be grovelling for forgiveness and utterly fucking mortified at his behaviour, he's a whinging, beliigerent heap of self-pity.

That is the truth of what he is.

Dear Foggy,
everyone here understands your dilemma and your feelings. We all wanted things to change for the better. Probably all thought one decisive blowup would be a catalyst for change. Unfortunately many of us have learned that is not so easy if not impossible.
Unless he is a psychopath (which is highly unlikely), he too will feel some remorse, shed some tears. But any change if it is possible takes a very long time and a long, hard look at yourself. He is already putting you into the position of enemy, mentioning your MH issues and the fact that you have shouted back. You wouldn't be human if you didn't wish that all of this had never happened or that there is some way to salvage at least a co-parenting arrangement and keeping him in your DCs lives.
He has to do the work, has to get to the docs and more. He has a hell of a lot to do to show that he is safe around the DCs. Please, please report the damage and the rest.
If and when he is able to recognise what he did, he will understand why you had to do that. Until then you need all the support inc police that you can.
Believe NanaNina and don't worry. In fact, talking to authorities about this may get you access to help to get through this period.

well done OP for the steps you have taken so far, i know how hard it is to do what you've done.

my exH threw a toaster at me when i was 6mth PG.
it made a mark in the door, i left that door unrepaired until i moved house 16 years later

i left it there so if ever he tried to wheedle his way back into our home (mine and 2 DSs) i could look at it as a stark reminder of what he was capable of.

it still makes me feel sick, and that was 20 yrs ago. that 'man' still haunts my dreams, even last week i had a nightmare about him - but the difference is i wake up and the biggest joy is that he's not there - that with the help of the police and some very knowledgable friends and support networks, i eventually got rid of him.

it took me 4 years after that incident to finally gather the courage to give my children a better life.

i feel guilty every day for leaving it that long.

i see him from time to time, with his 'new' wife, and i can see in her eyes that he is still that controlling bully. there's a look i recognise, i used to give it to myself when i looked in a mirror....

please call the police and have your incident reported, you will need it. he will try to get back in your home, he will damage you and your children again.

I want to add to all those who are telling you just how very brave you are. You are.

It is all about control...he needs to have control over you and every aspect of you. You and your dc's do not exist as separate, autonomous beings, to him, you are merely "dolls".

You do not matter to him...it's his image of himself a s "victim" (She threw me out at Christmas) His image of himself as somehow being entitled to behave in this way, his total disregard for you and the dc's, that's all that matters to him...the image of how it all looks to the outside world, and how YOU have damaged that...that's his priority.

Once you know this stuff about abusers, you can begin to see, he doesn't give a shit about his dc's, he's quite prepared to risk their lives by throwing objects around.

This was the thing that really struck me about my h. DD really wanted him to see her sing in her choir concert, but he was too concerned that people at school knew what he did to me....ALL ABOUT HIM, sod her! And he reckons he's a great dad, and I'm a terrible mother!

And this is a man who has been in therapy for over a year, has referred himself to a perp programme, has approached the freedom programme for help bLar blar...but I know that he's doing those things to get home and regain control, because if he REALLY got it, he wouldn't still be trying to suggest that there's something wrong with me, and I "threw him out"...no, if he REALLY got it, he would understand THAT I HAD NO CHOICE! He was condemning my dc's to a life of more abuse in their relationships....IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT FOR YOUR BABIES?

Do you see how far he has to go? My h might have an insight that he has a problem, and may be trying to find the first rung of the ladder, but your's doesn't even realise that there is a ladder to find, and his mother is preventing him from finding it too.

And in the meantime, there are children to raise. THAT must be your priority, and it will be a damn sight easier without him. I can see such profound improvements in my children, even after just a few months...really, your children deserve so much more, and actually Foggy, so do you.

Meant to add. My abusive X has been out of the house (and country) for 8m. We were together for 10 years.

Only THIS WEEK has he turned on the tears. Why? because he's tried everything ELSE.

When you say you're going to call victim support, do you mean the police?

Because I hope you do. If you don't call the police and get him cautioned (whihc is prob all that will happen as he is out of the house) what advantage will that be to you and your DCs?

Foggy think you have the message now from MNs. Worried about you and what has (or hasn't happened) Please still post, because even if you've let him back in, you will still need support. I hope you haven't but if you have you can't be blamed. It takes some women years to finally say "enough is enough"- sorry if I'm on the wrong track.

Sorry I haven't posted, had a very hectic day. Am all over the place emotionally, feeling v angry and worried one minute, then guilty the next.

This afternoon DH texted to ask if he could come over to the house in the afternoon as it was 'cold and boring' at his mum's (he was off work sick today and yes at the time I did think WTAF), when I saw the text I called him and as it had been about an hour he had already gone over to the house. He was really taken aback when I wasn't happy with this, and got cross on the phone. He also seemed to be more concerned with being able to get his computer than anything. He also said I don't seem to be appreciating how hard it all is for him etc. It's so weird, I was really angry at the time, then all the doubts kept coming in.

As we had already agreed it, DH came round and helped put the children to bed (my brother came over as well). They were really pleased to see him.

Feeling quite confused about whether this has all been a massive overreaction and also feel bad it is just before Christmas.

I know reading this cold without knowing the people makes him seem like a class A wanker, but I've spoken to several family members and people and they know him and how much stress he's been under, how much weight he has lost etc and although they are saying they are suportive of me if I want to split I think they feel sorry for him and that he's basically a decent guy. His BIL thinks I've overreacted apparently, and DH thinks I've been just biding my time waiting for an excuse to 'jump on him with both feet' and kick him out - as we've been talking about splitting. He does look really awful.

I am trying to stay firm as I see little point in him coming back for Christmas only for us to then have to go through a split at some point in the new year. I think it would be v confusing for the DC. I have told him he can see the DC but I want him to get some help, yet he still hasn't made docs appointment (although asked me for the number today before he left). He did give me his key to the house when he left this evening.

I am having a lot of trouble trying to compute his behvaiour with my image of him, if that makes sense. If I was reading this about someone else I'd think what an arsehole. but then when he's standing in front of me saying all this stuff I really just doubt myself and wonder if it's me who is being a total bitch. I do know our relationship is over, I don't love him anymore, I wanted to split anyway...I think it's just how this has happened and how fast, and the shock of how he;s being is just too much to take in. Feel like I am just joining the dots and rather than seeing each incident as a one-off, or because of this or that or because I did something or whatever, that actually it is part of a pattern of how he is... a bloody man-child who will never change.

Foggy, I know this is very difficult for you, but you seem to have a worrying disconnect about the violence he has directed towards your children.

You aren't making a mistake about this. You do need to stand firm. It doesn't matter whether someone thinks you're overreacting. This is your life not your BIL's.

foggy, people always minimise domestic violence.

OK not always, but nearly always.

Don't let anyone deny the reality of this. I know it's difficult for you to grasph the reality of it yourself - it is really bewildering and disconcerting to find that you've been lving with someone who simply doesn't fit your image of what they are and what you are as couple. But this fact - tht he is a dangerous, abusive man, is true.

Abusive men swap tips. did you know this? They will go to the charity shop and buy clothes 2 sizes too big to look like they are falling apart to make you take them back.

they are very convincing, they are very plausible and they are very charming. It is an ACT.

This guy, far from taking this on the chin, is garnering support AGAINST YOU from wherever he can get it.

He will do, say, pretend to be whoever he needs to be to get you back on-side.

He is TEXTBOOK.

Get yourself a copy of Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft and Living with the Dominator by Pat Craven (Creator of the Freedom Programme)

Love, what you have been through, what your children have been through is SERIOUS shit. Please don't ever forget this?

Please call WA for a chat?

Take aloof at the hole in the door.
Now go to another door and punch a hole in it yourself.

See how much force it takes.
Can't do it?
Why not?
Why could he do this?
The force of his rage.

Now imagine your dd s head gets in the way....

I too keep the impression of the punched hole in the door as a reminder.

You just can no longer trust this man.
Not any more.
Don't get taken in,
It is part of the cycle.

If after six months he understands and really understands what he did and why you were angry . Wll then maybe you can reconsider. But not after 24 hours or one week.

Stop listening to other people who have something invested in you to staying together

Nobody likes change, nor having to take sides

You do what you think is right

not your family, not his family

certainly not him

you

you wanted to split anyway...then why would an event like this shake your resolve ? Use it to harden your heart even further...

I put my fist through a door once actually - a long, long time ago.

I was horrendously drunk & in a foul, toxic relationship & I punched the door rather than the bloke after he did something I was furious about (stole money from me & my flatmate). It frightened the life out of the crap bf in question & was probably the beginning of the end, & a bloody good thing for both of us.

Leaving aside the fact that I broke two fingers doing it - would I have been someone, at that point, you'd've left in charge of a baby?

I was horrible. I was aggressive & scary & a complete twat & I go cold with shame to this day remembering it.

Your h might be crying, but he is still making excuses, still making it be your fault. You need to 'calm down'. It's not fair that you've thrown him out just before Xmas. Etc, etc.

There aren't any excuses. It was an abusive, threatening relationship-breaker thing to do & he damn well needs to accept that.

& we're not just talking a punched-in door as part of an abusive row with you - that sort of frightening behaviour in front of your dc? & the object which was thrown to narrowly miss your baby?

Either he can't control that temper at all (would he have done it in front of his boss/his parents/his friends if they'd been there) - in which case, he isn't safe to be around you & the children.

Or he can control it, but chooses not to -because actually he feels entitled to behave like this - in which case, he isn't safe to be around you & the children.

Please report it to the police. It needs logging.

Of course your families want you to 'fix it', 'work on it', 'make it better' - it makes their lives easier and they want you to be happy & a family BUT I bet they have no idea what he has actually been like. None. You will have covered up for him endlessly. If you told them what you have told us I'd be very surprised if they wanted you to stay with him - but even if they did, tough shit, this is your and your DC's lives not theirs.

Think of how your daughter was so relieved when she said 'no more broken doors' That was her reaction - that has to tell you something. Of course she is missing him now - it's change and kids aren't too fond of change and she loves him - he is the only Dad she knows, she doesn't yet understand just how wrong his behaviour is - but she will in time if you let him come back. Do you really want that?

I know it's a leap of faith - but please try to believe that you are doing the right thing, that any feelings of guilt or making a big deal out of nothing are coming from years of being brain washed into thinking it's your fault and he's always right... listen, really listen, to the women on here posting who have been in your situation - how warped their thinking was at the time and how different their lives are now.

He is following the script - people here can tell you what he will do/say next because they know.

You have to steal yourself against his crocodial tears - he is just feeling sorry for himself and the fact he's not in his home. After what he did, if he was really sorry, he would not have had the head space to even think about 'being bored' at his mothers - he would have been thinking how he'd got to where he is, how he could treat his wife and children like he does - where he could get help... he isn't sorry, he doesn't give a flying fuck about your feelings, nor the kids... he only cares about himself - he's made that very clear.

Keep him out of your house & get this and his general attitude on file - if you don't, you will regret it one day when you are having to hand your children over to their abusive father because you don't have enough proof that his is violent & abusive.

I am sorry that your past love of him and his brain washing is clouding your view of all of this :( Please listen to the others who have been where you are now.

Ok. Have not had a lot of sleep. I am getting it, I am just struggling.. talking about splitting is not the same as actially doing it. I am crap at being assertive and saying no.

When I was on the phone to DH and he was saying all this stuff which was making me think he was mainly concerned with his own comfort and my 'overreaction' and I thought then, Jesus everyone is talking about this script and he is following it.

There are so many things...it all adds up to he really is just a fucking nasty bastard isn't he? All these years it's been my problem, my MH past issues, my PND, my being a perfectionist and expecting too much of people - basically me being the problem.

I am going to list all the crappy things so I can see them in black and white. It might help keep me strong. I read a thread ages ago in the feminism section about cognitive dissonance and that feels like me. My brain keeps shutting down. I literally forget things all the time...like I go numb and in autopilot and my brain gets rid of them. E.g. the phone conversation yesterday I found so hard to process even though I told my sister immediately afterwards.

Do read the book, and do contact Women's aid or someone similar to get help and support. Have you contacted the police? Do you have a picture of the door?

You can get through this. Even in the post where you were softening, you realised what he really wanted was his computer. I wouldn't have him over to bath the kids, let him get some distance. Do you really want him t every have unsupervised contact with the kids? Do you think his family could/would supervise his access adequately?
Kids actually get more annoying as they get older, because they learn how to really annoy you (and I love my teens). Is this going to make him a safer father?

fb it's a really good idea to make a list.

And report to the police. Please please report. There is no possible benefit to you or your DC's, in not reporting. There is only an advantage.

And yes, he will feel outraged and injured and furious and resentful that you did so, because AFAHIC, he has the right to behave like this. Whereas a decent man, would be begging your forgiveness and accepting that you have the right to have his appalling, dangerous behaviour logged as protection for your DC's.

Also long term, the fact that you reported to the police and logged it, sends out the message to your DC's that it really must be taken seriously. Everyone else around them will be minimising. Reporting will give them an alternative vision of how life should be - that when people get really violent like this, the police are involved because it's that wrong. It will give them some armour against the MIL etc, who have a vested interest in pretending it's all a bit of a storm in a tea-cup.

Making a list is an excellent idea

Keep it on your person to read in weak moments

It's human nature to put the horribleness to one side when confronted with his headfuckery

The best thing you could do wrt that is to stop opening yurself up to it.

keep him out of your house, no more bathing the kids and putting them to bed. This is is his way of invading your space and keeping the screw turning...he knows exactly what he is doing

if he wants to see the kids, he has to take them to his mum's

have no more conversations about him, about you, about your relationship

detach detach detach

it is said so many times on here it starts to sound like a cliche, but it is the only way

you have to get one step ahead of him, or you will continue to be his puppet on a string...at the moment you are also acting in predictable ways...all the ways that make him feel entitled to keep pressurising you

keep arrangements re. the kids by text and stop letting him into your mindspace

and yes, report the domestic violence incident(s)

It probably is cognitive dissonance - your brain simply can't cope with what is happening. Think of it like someone dying - you start to see them, you hope you'll wake up and they will still be alive. Or any other huge shock.
He probably has it too, and his reactions are to try and pretend it didn't happen, which is why he is so distraught and wants to blame you. The car crash incident, breaking something precious you replay it in your mind looking for the points when you might have been able to stop it.
That is why you need some distance from him, some extreme clarity which a police report will give (you have the piece of paper, the crime no, the photographs so that you know it did happen).
And worth thinking about why he gave himself permission to behave as he did. As poster upthread explained there was a situation she was in and she still feels shame about it, but she understands why.
Trouble is once you have given yourself permission to do something - violence, an affair - you put yourself in a place where someone else is to blame ie he is blaming you. He is trying to feel sorry for himself and those outside the relationship want everything to go back to normal again.
What you need is time, more time, distance and more distance. Then the shock will die down, your brain will process a little bit more. But please, please report.

OP, the most important thing is your 2 young children. please please think of them. He is violent, he could seriously harm them psychologically as well as physically. How would you feel if you allowed him back in and he seriously injured one of them?
And how many people have to advise you to report this to the police. Well meaning people with a wealth of experience in the very situation you are going through? Please please report it asap for your childrens sake.

FFS I just read a post I put up using this name a YEAR ago. People told me then it would get worse. I posted then oh he would never hurt us. I said then if anything happened again in front of the DC I would leave. And I just kept on drawing that line over and over again for a year, angsting over the impact a divorce might have on them.

I'm angry with him but I'm furious with myself for being so bloody stupid.

I have phoned the local DV unit this morning. They were really nice and helpful. They can't just log a call as such but if there is any other incident she said I need to call at the time, and to call if I feel he is going to kick off not just if something has already happened. She gave me a number for national DV line with solicitors who can give legal advice and said options at moment could be an occupancy order or restraining order, but I am hoping it doesn't come to that. However, DH is showing me nothing, nothing at all that he is seriously trying to contemplate making changes.

The lady also advised me to keep a log of everything and to arrange for someone to be in the house with me if he comes over. Legally, as it is a joint mortgage I am not allowed to change the locks or stop him coming in if he wants to.

We haven't made any further arrangements for him seeing the kids yet. He wants to go xmas shopping for them together, but I am going to say no, we can agree over phone what we are buying and buy one present each.

Foggybrain, he is messing with your head, this is another type of abuse.

My cousin's bright chatty articulate 2 year old witnessed a scene like the one you described. She became elective Mute.

12 years later she still is.

This is not trivial. Don't let anyone trivialise it.