'D'H punched through door in front of DC

[foggybrain]

We have already talked about seperating, this is the latest in a long line of incidents which seem to be escalating. We had an argument this morning and I did shout at him, so I do feel it is partly my fault. I went out after for 30mins or so and walked back into the house in time to hear him really screaming at our baby. Our three year old and the baby were both hysterically crying. He had lost his temper and punched through a door in front of them both and was screaming at our baby to shut up. 'D' H hasn't even said sorry, has been snappy on and off all day, flying off at the kids and then apologising.

I want him out in the new year. I am telling him this tonight, but he already knows it. What I want to know is what to say to my 3 yo who has been very distressed today. I have already said that Daddy shouldn't have done it, that I am sorry it happened, but feel there is nothing else I can say. I heard DH apologise to her and say it was because he felt poorly (like that's an excuse). Not half an hour later he completely overreacted to her squeezing too much toothpaste out of the tube. I feel sick every time I see the huge hole in the door.

Is there anything else I can say or do to help our three year old?

glad youve got support

Foggy you have been very strong so far - I agree with every other woman on this thread who urges you to report it to the police, just to get it on file even if charges aren't pressed.

I feel so sad at these bloody awful strories. I never reported my ex-DP's awful behaviour, I just put up and shut up, to my eternal regret. My dd still remembers when he kicked in a door to a room which we had barricaded ourselves in. I have no idea why I didn't do anything, I think I just didn't want to be 'one of those people'. God knows. I still feel ashamed about it to this day.

Please foggy don't bother listening to your MIL - she has her own agenda. Please though listen to women's aid and talk to the police.

Good luck. Just remember the look on your dd's relieved face if you need strength.

You're doing well Foggy.

Well done Foggy xxx

Foggy :) i hope you feel up to updating your thread, you're amongst people who care :)

Thanks for coming back to update us Foggy.

Stay strong and stay safe.

xxx

You are being so strong Foggy. Well done.

Stay strong Foggy.

I grew up in a house with shouting, breaking things and punching holes in doors (dickhead of a stepfather.) No one should underestimate the impact this has on a child- you are completely doing the right thing protecting your children, and yourself. They cannot live like this. Do not listen to your MIL or your husband's apologies or excuses. Be firm. Be brave and proud of yourself for standing up to this 'man'.

xxx

I feel totally wrung out. DH came over earlier to pick up some stuff for work etc. I had already packed a bag for him, but he wanted to talk which I agreed to. I went through why I felt he had to move out. He admitted he could see my thinking, said he felt ashamed and when I talked about DD he started to cry. He looked totally destoryed TBH. I have spoken to my police relative who went through with me what they would do (prob arrest and caution him for criminal damage at this point). I do think it would finish him off if he were arrested and I am very concerned about involving social services as I have a MH history and had the crisis team involved 2 years ago.

I wanted to believe DH when he said he knows he has to control his temper and get some help. I told him if he does, we can rebuild things as co-parents but our marriage is over and he can't come back. I said I thought he should go to Drs asap and get some counselling too - he objected about money to this, and said he wouldn't know what to say to a Dr. I said to him again as he left to call the Dr tomorrow but you know, I will be astonished if he does.

My relative talked to me about the people he sees in his line of work and whilst there are some which I guess is my mental image of an abuser - the sadistic, devious person who systematically destroys a woman for kicks and I know that is not DH, my relative also said he sees these men who have never learned to control their tempers, that they are always sorry after until it happens again. In his experience, they never change just get worse.

I am also starting to realise how much bad behaviour (on both our parts - I'm not innocent in this, I have been guilty of shouting at him in front of DC for examples) has become the norm and how we've trivialised things for so long.

I really wanted to make DH see how very serious it was, what he did. I was glad he felt sorry and was crying, but I could tell from a couple of things he said, that he is already starting to a. feel sorry for himself and b. get angry with me. E.g. he said with quite a lot of anger/bitterness how his family knew I'd kicked him out (and just before Christmas).

I have said he can see the children on Christmas day and that he can come some evenings to help put them to bed, but he can't have them on his own at the moment until I know he's doing something to get some help. If he does. TBH he was sat there with his lower lip pushed out like a little boy, and although I felt bad when he was crying, I just remembered someone saying up thread to stay angry and stay focussed.

The horrible thing was, DD has been asking this afternoon when Daddy is coming home and on the phone to her when she asked if he was coming home tomorrow he said he hoped so but it depended on Mummy, even though we'd just agreed he was going to only pop over this evenig for clothes after they were in bed. He's still not listening to me I don't think.

I am calling the victim support people tomorrow and taking some pics of the door. I just think in a couple of days when he's stopped feeling so guilty he'll start blaming me/excuse himself/say I overreacted. I could alreayd see this narrative forming where I'd kicked him out before Christmas and poor him etc etc. It is dawning now, finally, heis not going to change. I hope I am wrong because I want the children to have a relationship with him.

I just can't believe everything, I'm hainvg trouble mentally thinking of this as DV. I keep thinking that doesn't happen to someone like me. How can I have let things get this bad? I can't believe I am going to be a single mother; I feel like I've failed my children.

Anyway, am off to bed. Thank you to everyone who posted once again. You are all amazing, thank you.

God, just read back through. I am usually a bit more coherent so sorry for bad spelling and grammar etc. I will be at work tomorrow but will try to post after DC in bed in the evening.

You have not failed your DC and you are not a bad mother. This man is a selfish, childish bellend, and it's his own fault that he is not going to be having a family Christmas with you. He's already trying to say that it's your fault, that he won't seek help etc etc, because he doesn't really think he did anything wrong; you are only a 'woman' and it's OK for him to tantrum when you are not sufficiently obedient and submissive. Just rehearse in your mind again and again what you are going to say to everyone and anyone who asks - 'I split up with him because he can't control his temper and is not safe to be around the children.'

You have not failed.

To have him stay in the house when you know what he's done would be a failure. You have been strong, you have stood up and refused to allow him to treat you like this, to scare your DC like this.

it is DV, it's one of the worst kinds, cos he is getting at you through tiny children.

HE failed. not you.

Oh and don't believe the tears. They ALL try the waterworks. It's total BS. He's proved that by putting it on to you, saying it's down to mummy, so that when you say (rightly) NO, he will find a way to plant it in her head that YOU did this. By staying in the house raising your DD, he will teach her how to be an abuse victim.

He has not had anywhere near enough time to process what he has done, he has not faced up to any of it. That takes a very long time and a great deal of direction.

Don't fall for any of it.

I was glad he felt sorry and was crying, but I could tell from a couple of things he said, that he is already starting to a. feel sorry for himself and b. get angry with me. E.g. he said with quite a lot of anger/bitterness how his family knew I'd kicked him out (and just before Christmas).

PLease remember this bit. Currently he is saying all the right things, but you can already see thorugh the act, so to speak.

You have been very strong, however he knows you very well, knows your history, and knows which buttons to press. You have to keep vigilant.

I have huge sympathy when you say that you don't FEEL as if this is DV, and of course you don't see yourself as the battered, cowed women of popular cliche. However this is dangerous in itself. Please try not to lessen what has happened to you and your family, this is serious stuff and as many people on here have said, and also your copper relative, this behaviour does escalate.

You have done the bravest thing. You have made a decision which many people would shy away from, and that is really commendable. The hardest thing now is sticking to it. I think personally that it is a bad idea letting him come to your house and go through the normal kiddy routine. He will think that it is an easy way to get his feet back under the table. I don't know what else practically to suggest, but I am sure that more knowledgable MNers will have some advice.

Take care.x

My abusive ex wasn't a malicious, systematic destroyer either. Many abusers are not. They see themselves as entitled to hold the views and opinions that they do, and it is this mindset which leads to the anger and aggression. You cannot change that.
You could, as many do, muddle along with it, but it will never improve, and the damage to you and your children will increase daily. You cannot undo the hole in your door, or the trauma your 3yr old experienced from witnessing it. By ending the relationship you are sending a very clear message to her that you she is loved, valued and protected.
If your "D"H looked destroyed, it was because he knew he had gone too far, not because he was devastated at the effect on the DC's.

Think about it, what would it take to provoke you to scream in your child's face and break the furniture? A lot right? An unimaginable amount. The chances, in fact, are zero, because you are not wired that way.

Unfortunately that is also how much it would take for him NOT to behave so appallingly. Because he IS wired that way. You cannot undo a lifetime's conditioning with pleading, or a reasoned argument, or tears. Or even a perpetrator programme, sadly. I am part of a DV support group and have heard not a single success story.

I agree with HoudiniHissy

Dont fall for his bullshit!. Abusive men are so plausible when they turn on the tears that they could win an Oscar for their performance.

Im not sure if you've heard about the book 'Why does he do that?' by Lundy Bancroft, if you do read it you will see how Dv starts and continues and that men (like your husband) almost never change.

You are not a failure if you become a single mum, you will be a winner because you are protecting your children and giving them a life free of abuse.

Foggy, this isn't about temper, it's about control. He chooses to behave this way.

I'm worried that you're talking about not calling the police about this, but you are talking about co-parenting with him. His violent incidents have been directed at the children, punching the door in front of them, screaming in the baby's face, throwing something very close to your baby's head. You might be able to brush off one but this is a pattern. Please don't talk yourself into the idea that he can be a good father, in fact he's not safe around them.

Can you say why it's so important for you to involve him in parenting when he does things like this? Protecting your children isn't an abstact thing, it's about making sure that they are never put in the situation again where he can hurt them or threaten to hurt them.

A police caution won't finish him off either. It will show him, and you, that you're serious about this.

Otherwise his trips back to help put the children to bed will end up with you finding he's moved back in, and your dcs in an even more dangerous situation than they were before.

I think if you want to organise contact it should be with a third party away from your home.

Well done. But why should he parent?

Foggy I get why you want to believe him. I get why you feel sorry for him.
My dad wasn't the man you read about, or heard about. He was a respectable business man. He clearly adored us children, spoke proudly of us, had a good group of friends (decent friends), provided for us all.
He was only violent to mum a couple of times a year. You know, Christmas etc when things were more stressful than normal. Then it became every few months. But he was stressed, business wasn't too great, we could be annoying. Then it became every few weeks, but each time he sobbed forgiveness, promised to change, would make it right. Then it became every week. Then he didn't even bother to apologise. Then it was 3-4 times a week.
IF he really believed that what he did was wrong and that he wanted to change he wouldn't even think of asking to come back. He would seek help and make the changes, and prove the changes for a long time before he even thought that he had a right to come back into yyour home, the place that should be your safe haven.
If he is promising to change and get help only after he is allowed back home then he is lying.

I don't know what to say, foggy

I have sat here for five straight minutes trying to frame a reply to you, that doesn't frighten you off and enables you to make the right decision

I am really sorry you have not given this man the clear message he deserves wrt to your family

That his behaviour is not, and never will be, acceptable

I fear for you, and for your dc

Well Foggy some really helpful posts. By the way social services will not be concerned that you have a MH record. Children are not removed because of MH problems - if anything they are offered extra support at such times. Mind the fact that you have a MH history (so do I) is a worry because it coyld mean that this stress could trigger off another episode of whatever MH problem you had. If it was depression/anxiety, this could well trigger something off. Has this thought occurred to you.

I can see where you are coming from, trying to hold out some hope that you can co-parent, as you are feeling a bit sorry for him, but that is your heart over ruling your head, although it isn't in a way because you can already read the signs that he will blame you for "kicking him out just befor eChristmas" The most dangerous time for women is when they have made it clear that the r/ship has ended, as extreme violence can occur as men in this position feel angry and threatened and take it out on the woman.

You are doing so well Foggy - maybe, just maybe in time as you say IF and when he seeks help and is able to see the error of his ways, then maybe he could have contact with the children, which should be supervised. I am thinking in terms of months not weeks and only if he will undertake to have counselling. I honestly think the co-parent thing and putting the children to bed is simply not on, because he will use it to try and get you back, pulling out more tricks - crying etc and making you feel sorry for him,, and yes more anger probably, and you will be back to where you started.

Thinking of you and wishing you the strength that you will need..........

Foggy you've got him out of the house. If you let him back you will find it extremely difficult next time.
Start as you mean to go on, don't let him see the kids in the house. Arrange for supervised contact instead.
If he's anything like my ex he will worm his way back in and then you'll be on the back foot.

You've been so strong, if you backtrack he'll take advantage. You're doing well, stick to your guns and get some rl support

Your dd may actually still be worried about him being in the house and bashing doors in. Her question when are you coming home may be she does not want the answer to be "soon"

Please consider that for now no he does not come home .
The kids see him at granma
S house

They could spend half of Xmas there with him.

In letting him back in home to bath them etc nothing will change.
I made this mistake letting exp visit with dc at our new house. I wish I had been on mums net for someone tos say "don't let him into your new house " . Have visits elsewhere.

Take some clear time out you were thinking separation well this has helped you make it happen sooner.

No visits home.
Dc see him at grandmas house.

Tell dd daddy won't come home but she can visit with him at granma s house.

And yes report to police probably it will just go on record but it is so important take photos of damage.

That he will have a breakdown etc? His problem to seek help.

You can also get support via gp tell gp everything so you can be supported to make this break .

Visualise that object he threw deliberately actually hitting your small dd's head the next time. This is whatbyou are dealing with.

Your dd getting in the way when he smashes the next door. Small children don't always know when to run away and can get caught in the cross fire.

Remember this man can control his temper. He doesn't throw things at his colleagues, or punch shop doors in. He chose to do those things at home. He chose to behave like that.

Well done for being so strong. Remember, this is not your doing. This is a situation of his own making.