Possible mumsnet campaign on domestic abuse??

[NettleTea]

The report out today regarding the possible changes in the law regarding domestic violence has spawned a great deal of debate, both in the media and on several forums/closed FB groups.
There are a couple of links [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8948620/Bullies-face-prosecution-in-domestic-violence-crackdown.html here] and [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16175167 here] which give the background.
Some of you may be aware that one of our regular posters spoke on radio 5 live this morning - you can hear her [http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017wygq here] at about 1 hour 24 mins under the pseudonym of 'Susie' as she tells her story, and how Mumsnet was a lifeline for her. Earlier today I wrote to Mumsnet Towers to see whether we might rally their support in campaigning for this issue, especially given Mumsnet's role in helping women to identify that they are in abusive relationships, to support them if they decide to leave and to offer advice and further support as they go through that difficult process. One of the most devastating aspects of being in an abusive relationship which isnt violent is the gradual erosion of the woman's (or men's, I acknowledge that its not gender specific) self esteem and trust in her own judgement, and the shifting sands of what constitutes normality, and that is often where MN comes in, helping to identify a relationship which is abusive when nobody is getting physically hurt. The comments on the Telegraph thread above, (although not as frustrating as those in the daily mail) clearly show how misunderstood emotional abuse is, and I feel that MN and particularly MN members who are living it, and have been through it, really have voices that should be heard.
MN Towers suggested I start a thread here to see the amount of support out there for their contribution to the ongoing discussions, and whether we feel that this is a campaign that they should get behind, and in what form it would best take place, so thoughts please....

To add:

Which is interesting because current thinking is that Cluster B PD's are mainly found in women. I wonder if that's because male abusive and controlling behaviour has, for so long, been considered quite normal. The "are you still beating your wife" syndrome?

I would agree with that wholeheartedly Singing - that a perpetrator programme is not enough on its own and that perpetrators need to commit themselves to long term therapy if they really want to change.

Also wholeheartedly agree that the ingrained sexism in our society has a lot to do with the prevalence of DA and rape/sexual assault. We need to challenge it wherever we see it.

well quite, if you don't hold out for the possibility of some change what can you do? I get the impression some MNers would prefer them branded (literally) for life or in prison with the key chucked away . Not that i wish to detract at all from the real damage abusers have done.
I agree completely that personal therapy is essential but where are the funds? Governments prefer to spend on mopping up the mess later on when its too late or far more difficult for change. Education at an early age would be so helpful, won't stop it all, but will help reduce. Instead we get funding cuts for services aimed at risk families.

I think it must be very hard for a perpetrator to change, when the rest of society is telling him that his behaviour is not that bad. That's possibly the biggest challenge perps have to face - the fact that other chaps are telling them "nah mate, of course she shouldn't go out looking like a slut, you're right")

At least with many forms of abuse, the abuser knows it's wrong becasue society tells him or her that it is. And that's why challenging dearly held beliefs about relationships, gender roles etc., is so important.

absolutely, but it cuts both ways. I've read many women on MN telling an OP to chuck their partner's things out in the rain. Change the locks when its their joint property and make him sleep on the sofa for some minor transgression, amongst other things. I am not talking about advice given to women who have been abused. Clearly an abuser should leave the home and not be allowed to return unless it is safe to do so.
My female neighbour had the gall to tell me - in the street- that it was ok for women to give their man the odd slap to keep him in line. When she saw my horrified face she added that of course it wasn't ok for men to ever hit a woman. Now she had the nerve to say that to me in broad daylight when sober. I think fundamentally there are lots of people (men and women) who do not respect the right of others to have their own point of view, their own life, to make the decision to leave a relationship and so on. Its just degrees of how far these people will go, clearly some will go way too far and make other people's lives a living hell , some will go further still and commit murder.

Ingrained sexism in our society

Are you having a laugh!? The only barrier to a woman doing anything within society today is their own perception that they're being in some way unfairly treated.

Some people get on and do things, others make excuses and feign discrimination.

No, I was not "having a laugh".

If you go on to read the rest of my post...seriously, and then look up the comments on the online publications mentioned...I think that you will see EXACTLY what I meant!

sparks you appear to live on a different planet to the rest of us. Do you really believe that there is no discrimination? Really? If this is the case, I just don't know what to say to you, but the word delusional might be included.

I expect Sparks things there's no such thing as racism as well.

Of course there is discrimination,there always will be. Towards both males and females.

But no, there is no ingrained sexism towards woman in our society. A woman is afforded just as many opportunities as any man in this country.

You seem to confuse differences between the sexes and the choices individuals make as discrimination.

Elf

What an uncalled for comment. Based on nothing but your own idiocy. And FTR , of course there is.

And no addressing of my point about whether racism still exists.

Not much of an agenda there Sparks.

Er, i just commented that of course there is.....

Sparks....

"But no, there is no ingrained sexism towards woman in our society. A woman is afforded just as many opportunities as any man in this country. "

If only that were true...but it just isn't. The Daily Mail...read it, any day, and then come back and tell me that. Tits on page three, where are the willies? Equal pay for the same job...STILL not a reality!

Seriously....you are sending a very useful and serious, and rather intelligent debate off at a very silly tangent, this really, is adding nothing of note.

Oh and before you get boringly pedantic on me....remember I've been in an abusive relationship...I can predict what happens next, (yawn), I know that the DM doesn't do the tit thing...just for your notes dear.

So racism exists but sexism doesn't?

That's interesting.

And remarkable. Given that sexism is a much older hatred than racism and has been part of human history for far longer and yet you seem to imagine that it's been wiped out completely within ooh, 20 years or so, while racism hasn't?

Anyone who denies that sexism exists, is either seriously stupid or is a woman-hater with a sexist agenda. Claiming that women choose to be raped, sexually assaulted, sacked for being pregnant, paid less than men for the same job, have her sexuality held up for comment and judgement and all the other things that happen to women but not men, is seriously ignorant or seriously woman hating.

Which one are you I wonder.

The latter I think...now let's get back to the grown up debate that was beginning to make some real progress...dontcha think?

Am I correct when I say that you're a man Sparks?

That's not an assumption by the way - I thought I heard you mention your gender on another thread...

Dear me.

Yes i am male.

No cock pictures on page 3? Probably because there's no demand for it. What a ridiculous example to choose.

And exactly what does the fact you've been in an abusive relationship mean? It doesn't suddenly give you a higher opinion on matters. And please don't insinuate that i am an abuser.

The equal pay argument is more complex than most people accept and could take up a whole thread of it's own.

And Elf Did i not state that of course there is sexism. If you're going to debate at least read the other persons response.

"there is no ingrained sexism towards woman in our society"

Must i really spell it out!?

No Ingrained sexism. Jesus christ...

It probably would be helpful if you did Sparks1 - no idea what you mean.

Get a fucking grip of yourselves and understand that by talking such bilge you undermine and polarise the situation.

Rubbish. What a ridiculous viewpoint.

No offence but take your head out of your arse and loose the attitude.

What a ridiculous example to choose.

No Ingrained sexism. Jesus christ...

Swearing. Dismissing other peoples views as 'ridiculous' and 'bilge'. Telling women to 'lose the attitude'. Using rude and unpleasant language.

Does it not strike you as slightly ironic that you are one of the only blokes posting on this thread? Because it does me.

Do keep it civil Sparks. The rest of us can manage to debate and disagree with eachother without resorting to nastiness.

The only irony is that few blokes would be brave enough to stand up to some of the carp posted.

Civil? So how about the fact i was posted as a racist on no basis whatsoever?

I have no nastiness in me. It's not my fault some people are quite obviously unprepared to entertain a different viewpoint.

I think Elfenors point was that saying sexism didn't exist was as ridiculous as saying racism didn't exist. She did not say she thought you specifically were a racist.

And on the contrary - I relish different viewpoints and enjoy having my own point of view challenged. If I have to think about my views and articulate and defend them, it gives me the opportunity to be really clear about what it is I believe - it makes me accountable. I never want to be the sort of person who says, 'I believe something is true er... because I do.

And isn't carp a kind of fish?

You call me "ridiculous"

You assume you know my mindset and what I feel about things. You think you know who I ma, and what I think, and if it does not tally with YOUR mindset, then there is something somehow wrong with me?

"must I really spell it out"...no...I think we have your measure..."Jesus Christ".

I wouldn't entertain YOUR company for so much as an eccles cake....are THE red flag. YOU an your attitudes ARE EXACTLY WHAT THIS IS ABOUT!!!!!

Thank you! Really...Thank you. You have in your few posts. exemplified the "problem"...It's you...and every man that thinks the way that YOU DO!

Excellent. Really, you have summed up a million posts on this subject! Your ingrained attitudes of superiority and entitlement.. that we're all a bit silly, and beneath your intellect.

WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WITH FUCKING KNOBS ON!

YOU have just proven the whole bloody thing...WELL DONE!