Possible mumsnet campaign on domestic abuse??

[NettleTea]

The report out today regarding the possible changes in the law regarding domestic violence has spawned a great deal of debate, both in the media and on several forums/closed FB groups.
There are a couple of links [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8948620/Bullies-face-prosecution-in-domestic-violence-crackdown.html here] and [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16175167 here] which give the background.
Some of you may be aware that one of our regular posters spoke on radio 5 live this morning - you can hear her [http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017wygq here] at about 1 hour 24 mins under the pseudonym of 'Susie' as she tells her story, and how Mumsnet was a lifeline for her. Earlier today I wrote to Mumsnet Towers to see whether we might rally their support in campaigning for this issue, especially given Mumsnet's role in helping women to identify that they are in abusive relationships, to support them if they decide to leave and to offer advice and further support as they go through that difficult process. One of the most devastating aspects of being in an abusive relationship which isnt violent is the gradual erosion of the woman's (or men's, I acknowledge that its not gender specific) self esteem and trust in her own judgement, and the shifting sands of what constitutes normality, and that is often where MN comes in, helping to identify a relationship which is abusive when nobody is getting physically hurt. The comments on the Telegraph thread above, (although not as frustrating as those in the daily mail) clearly show how misunderstood emotional abuse is, and I feel that MN and particularly MN members who are living it, and have been through it, really have voices that should be heard.
MN Towers suggested I start a thread here to see the amount of support out there for their contribution to the ongoing discussions, and whether we feel that this is a campaign that they should get behind, and in what form it would best take place, so thoughts please....

I am MORE than aware of how real it is. Thank you.

I am also very aware of how the media works too. I am not stupid.

Well I really don't think YOU ARE more than aware for the shit and upset that happens when people start getting the press involved in an MN campaign .

It's all ok, until they start trawling posts and twisting peoples experiences in the press............

Plus it's ok for you to say you are ok with that happening. Many aren't. That's where the problem lies.

You are telling me what I am and am not aware of aware of. Blimey.

Why not come up with a positive suggestion instead then eh?

Telling people what they think and what they know, is in itself a red flag....just sayin'....;-)

I don't understand the idea that the press are too irresponsible to trust with a campaign. On that basis, breast cancer, MS, smoking, drink driving, AIDS - all the great media campaigns would have been abandoned before they started.

I think that's pretty defeatist tbh.

Viz the fact that people don't focus on men as victims of DV - actually, it's right that about 5% of the public discussion and allocation of resources and writing and reporting, should be about them, it's proportionate. It's right that we focus on the problem according to how widespread it is. There's this sense of outrage that if something happens to men and we don't focus on them, that is wrong. If 50% of resources and emotional energy isn't being expended on men as victims, even though they represent only 5% of victims, that feels wrong to people because we are so used to having men being the most importnat people in society and so the fact that we are focusing on the majority of the victims - women- just doesn't sit right with our expectations.

Viz the 1 in 6 figure, that is often quoted by MRA's as proof that woemn are nearly as violent as men, but if you look further into the figures, the question is along the lines of : has your partner hit/ punched/ kicked etc in the last year and then divided into number of times. And for one time, 1 in 6 male respondents answer in the affirmative. Then for 2+, 3+, 4+ etc., the figures then plummet, whereas for women, they remain at 1 in 4. So that figure is actually telling you something about the nature of assaults experienced in a domestic setting by women versus those experienced by men. (And of course, a number of that 1 in 6, are going to be women who have finally hit back at an abuser and it gets logged as a domestic assault).

Obviously there are LOTS of posters here, who haven't been here that long. That just don't consider anyone else but themselves. That happened with Riven, people got so caught up in "look at me, look at what we did, with mn in the press". It really fucked some people over.

Difference here. It's not just a site, it's a forum, it's full of peoples lives, that's the issue as once the press get involved it escalates.

Exactly it would be far better brandy if it was an MN thing, and not about flirting with the press.

ElfenorRathbone how do you or anyone else KNOW men make up only 5% of the victims? Stats can say anything and are meaningless anyway if men won't talk to organisations or the police.
What would be the average reaction of the person on the street to a man saying this? " I had to get out of bed at 12.30 to scrub the kitchen floor last night because i forgot to do it earlier". I suspect he'd either be laughed at , told to man up or just face total incredulity. What about overhearing a woman saying to her husband "you've really done it now, you'd better lock yourself in the bathroom quickly before i do something serious to you". (my partner stayed overnight in that household and heard that one.)

education in school from an early age, focusing on what abuse is and how both genders can suffer. Making abuse less taboo so it is easier for everyone to talk about it, let's not forget issues like elder abuse- another taboo subject. I like BrandyButterfly's idea of encouraging people to start having conversations about domestic abuse.

Has something happened to you along these lines bubble?

Why do you assume that there are people here that haven't been here that long? That is MASSIVE assumption. People often name change for the very reasons you suggest, to retain anonymity.

I really think it's important on this thread to keep the bigger picture in mind, unlike the Riven case, this would not be highlighting one person's individual experience to make a point...it would rather be a more generalised campaign to raise awareness, review the law or whatever this debate comes up with....personal agenda's aside.

I would also agree that education and making it less of a taboo/shameful subject is the way forward.

I would like to see lessons on healthy and respectful relationships being given to all secondary school pupils along with the nuts and bolts sex education.

I would like to see all secondary school age girls do the Freedom Programme - there is a similar programme for men and boys too.

When I was a kid we had a lesson called social education. It was brilliant. We'd sit in a circle and discuss all manner of things - pornography, bullying, relationships. I'd like to see the return of S.E. as we used to call it, and I'd like to see a curriculum for it that included sessions on things like personal boundaries - identifying and maintaining them and how to recognise when someone is attempting to push them. Assertiveness - children taught how to ask directly for their needs to be met and how to say NO when they need to. Confidence and self-esteem - how to foster it, how to bolster it, how to encourage it in others.

We'll need some bloody money though first won't we, Mr Cameron if you please.

No, I've seen it happen to many others.

makeyerowndamndinner sounds good and definitely needed.

I understand the fear of the press, but the Riven thing was a world away from this.

This is a campaign, to raise awareness of DA, to support education, to help safe guard vital, life saving services.

This is not ONE individual in ONE set of extreme circumstances crying out for help. This is a proportion of people who are treated with cruelty, and having their lives risked and taken away, their children harmed and even murdered at the hands of some deeply flawed and sick individuals.

The message HAS to permeate ALL of society that DV/DA is not acceptable, that there are no reasons, no excuses, no justification for ANYTHING LESS than equality.

bubble, if you are not happy to back a campaign to help eradicate domestic violence, then fine. It's OK. Not everyone has to.

there is a similar programme for men and boys too.

Makeyerowndamndinner could you post the details of this? Looking earlier this year I couldn't find anything, and neither could my DV support worker or GP.

They still do SE I think, it evolved when I was at school, when I started it was PSE (Personal & Social education) and then PSHE (Personal, social & health education) and then the government introduced this idea of a "Citizenship" GCSE which basically meant going out and volunteering somewhere for a day or doing something for the community. Great, but TBH kind of pointless... anyway this meant that it morphed into PSHE & C, so less time was spent on the PSE stuff.

I believe the programme for men has been discontinued...that is the programme for abusers...not the abused, although there are home study packs available.

The more I research this subject, the more I believe that it is a MH issue. I said before, that the pathology is so narrow, (regardless of gender, but for lots of reasons affecting far more men) that research is needed into the psychology of this syndrome.

As I said...my abusive mother is considered mad, whereas h is considered just bad....for the SAME behaviour patterns. We need to know why that is don't we?

I also completely agree with Dinner.

singingprincess are you suggesting that I follow a programme for abusers?

Oberon, have you ever spoken to Respect. It is aimed at abusers who want to change, which means they have a great deal of insight into the male perspective and have a lot of male helpline volunteers. They point victims on to other places, but they may be able to point you in the right direction for getting some support as a male victim? Seeing as services seem so gendered they would perhaps have spoken to male victims. Good luck. And keep posting, it is v important to have a male perspective here.

Oberon I believe the programme for men and boys was also devised by Pat Craven, the woman responsible for the original Freedom Programme. From what I've heard it is not much different. I'll do some digging for you if you like?

Singingprincess there are many perpetrator programmes running throughout the country - in my area we provide the Move On To Change Programme. Nobody get me started on the effectiveness (or not) of these programmes - I'll be going on and on for hours

Also Oberon if you want some support - and remember you are entitled to receive it - you could possibly try approaching your local Women's Aid. I don't know which part of the country you are in but like I said earlier in the thread, some Welsh Women's Aid groups are beginning to provide a service to male victims too. Even if they don't provide that service they may be able to signpost you in the right direction. Just a thought...

Roses - of course statistics are flawed, but they're all we've got. These figures are from the British Crime Survey, which is anonymous so people are more likely to tell the truth - that's why the police recognise them as a more accurate measure of crime, than their own figures which is only reported crime. It's generally accepted that with a margin of error, people usually tell the truth to an anonymous survey (though not always of course, so you have to be careful how you phrase the questions).