Possible mumsnet campaign on domestic abuse??

[NettleTea]

The report out today regarding the possible changes in the law regarding domestic violence has spawned a great deal of debate, both in the media and on several forums/closed FB groups.
There are a couple of links [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8948620/Bullies-face-prosecution-in-domestic-violence-crackdown.html here] and [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16175167 here] which give the background.
Some of you may be aware that one of our regular posters spoke on radio 5 live this morning - you can hear her [http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017wygq here] at about 1 hour 24 mins under the pseudonym of 'Susie' as she tells her story, and how Mumsnet was a lifeline for her. Earlier today I wrote to Mumsnet Towers to see whether we might rally their support in campaigning for this issue, especially given Mumsnet's role in helping women to identify that they are in abusive relationships, to support them if they decide to leave and to offer advice and further support as they go through that difficult process. One of the most devastating aspects of being in an abusive relationship which isnt violent is the gradual erosion of the woman's (or men's, I acknowledge that its not gender specific) self esteem and trust in her own judgement, and the shifting sands of what constitutes normality, and that is often where MN comes in, helping to identify a relationship which is abusive when nobody is getting physically hurt. The comments on the Telegraph thread above, (although not as frustrating as those in the daily mail) clearly show how misunderstood emotional abuse is, and I feel that MN and particularly MN members who are living it, and have been through it, really have voices that should be heard.
MN Towers suggested I start a thread here to see the amount of support out there for their contribution to the ongoing discussions, and whether we feel that this is a campaign that they should get behind, and in what form it would best take place, so thoughts please....

Absolutely Malinkey...the effect on my relationship with my family has been devastating. I now have no family...and they are totally in denial as to their dysfunctionality, but my motivation is to STOP this passing down yet another generation.

i'm in....i'd never have realised what was going on apart from MN.

nettle. I have a particular concern that the EA continues with the DCs even when we are out of the relationship. I want them to be protected from him...and for people to see the pain he causes.

thecurrentconscience.com/blog/2011/09/12/a-message-to-women-from-a-man-you-are-not-%E2%80%9Ccrazy%E2%80%9D/

This is an example of the kind of low level stuff that goes on ALL the time and is part of our society's shitty expectations of women.

Hello

Thanks NettleTea for starting this thread. This is just a quick post to say we've clocked it and will read it all and have a think.

And thanks also for the link to the Victoria Derbyshire show yesterday. 'Susie', you made me cry!

I'll flag up the post about the unsearchable private forum; not sure where we are with that. Threads started in OTBT aren't searchable, but of course aren't entirely private either.

MNHQ x

Couldn't agree more there fool.

Absolutely fantastic to see all this support for the new law. And some brilliant ideas for what needs to happen to better protect women and children too. I would be thrilled to see Mumsnet get behind it all.

However, I'd just like to post something to make people aware of the reality on the ground.

I work for a Women's Aid group in Wales. I'm a floating support worker although I have experience of working in both refuge and outreach too. Our funding is being squeezed and squeezed to the point where it's a very real possibility that our group may not survive and the women of our town will not have a Women's Aid service.

We receive no central government funding. Lots of our working time is taken up trying to beg funding from various bodies in the form of grant applications e.t.c. The only funding for floating support we receive is housing/tenancy based which means that there is NO (and I do mean absolutely none) funding that is specifically for domestic abuse. How this translates into reality is that a woman experiencing domestic abuse will come to us, but she will only qualify for floating support if she a) has her own tenancy, and b) is having problems maintaining that tenancy. If those two things are not in place then we are not funded to support her.

We have NO funding for our outreach service which is arguably one of the most important services we provide. This is where women can come in off the street and immediately be seen by someone with no need for a prior appointment. We are desperately trying to find funding so that we can continue to provide this service. Women need it. If a woman has built up the courage to come to us and ask for help, she needs that help then and there - not to be told to make an appointment and come back in a few days time.

Our funders are currently making noises to the effect that they feel there is too much refuge provision in our area (absolute rubbish, they just want to save money) and we know our refuge service is next to be cut, despite the fact that we have the most modern refuge (complete with ensuite bathrooms and mini kitchens in every womans room, plus a disabled access room with a wet room rather than a bath for women with disabilities) in the area. Everyone is fearful for their jobs.

It's not just us. Many Women's Aid groups in Wales are in exactly the same boat. And I hear the situation is not much better in England. It is dire. We are dying I tell you, dying.

So if you want to see any Women's Aid services at all, especially outside of the major cities, the best campaign you could get behind would be one demanding that central government provide decent statutory funding for all our work.

Once we have the funding we need, then we can put all these wonderful ideas into motion.

makeyerown - that is awful.

Perhaps the first part of the campaign should be to get funding then.

Oh, and singing, that is a really good article about gaslighting. Might be handy to point that one out to people when they don't know what gaslighting is.

Yes so true. Sounds like a campaign to increase and/or ringfence government funding for DA services is the highest priority at the moment. I've heard you can write to your MP about this - perhaps we should all do that?

Is there a danger of making this too gendered? The headlines I read were about men being prosecuted.

Does this send the message that men can't be the victims of DV?
I will instill the message to my children about how not to be the victim or the abuser, irrespective of sex.

I can't see how I can say things differently to my daughter than my son.

I am a father and not looking to stir anything.

I'll repeat what I said earlier in case it was lost in a longer post. I think that when DA happens towards women there is a strong undercurrent of misogyny and that this needs addressing along with the practical issues. I agree that DA happens to men also and of course that is just as serious a problem, but I believe that when decent support systems are set up and abuse is understood by professionals, that support for men suffering DA will naturally also be more easily accessed.

It's a completely different issue, IYSWIM? It's almost universally accepted that EA behaviour is unacceptable from female to male, if a male victim of DA told his friends and/or family what was happening he'd almost universally get sympathy, the main problem is that it isn't talked about because it is a taboo. Whereas EA from men towards women, even if it is talked about, is very often minimised, made excuses for, or even just accepted as normal behaviour because men are naturally angry/possessive/protective. I'm talking about attitudes in general life, not on mumsnet, because the responses you will get are very different here to the norm, IMO.

I'll offer my support too.

I'd like to see more funding for organisations helping people who are living with DA.

In school, and in the wider culture, better education about DA- and the fact that it doesn't have to be violent to be abuse. There needs to be some way of fostering self-esteem in people, so that they don't feel that any relationship is better than being single.

HCPs need better training in helping people who are going through DA. Often the advice given can be downright dangerous, when the HCP doesn't have any experience or knowledge of DA.

If only money were no object...

i'm all for mental,verbal,emotional abuse being taken seriously, is it only partners who can do anything about this? as my daughter is still being abused by her dad, she is 18 with sn, he has physicaly abused her everytime she saw him, and she stopped contact but he still phones her and sends text messages telling her, he wishes her dead, he would love her more if she killed herself, the list goes on and on. sw told my dd this isn't abuse, the police don't take this seriously as dd has sn, and takes her dads side. if her dad finds anything out about whats happening in her life he throws a spanner in the works, ie: canceled her gcse's, tried to cancel college place saying he wouldn't agree to her going. dd gets dla to help her get a support worker 24/7 as this is what she has been assessed as needing, he told dla she was commiting benefit fraud and had her benefit frozen this was last aug (just been sorted out this week) he also lies to family members if he can't contact her and gets them to abuse and shout at her.

Davids

There must be something that could be done. I can't believe the police can't do something about it. Does she have to be the one to contact the police if she has SN, ie can you do it for her and tell the police she isn't able to do so for herself?

If he's the one contacting DLA accusing her of fraud then surely someone must be aware of it?

I really feel for you and DD.

we have contacted our police about 20 times now, they are fantastic, but the statements get sent over to his county police to deal with and get thrown out as dd has sn.....she has phoned them in the past on 999 when he was hitting, kicking, strangling her, they turn up and see him first as dd hides as she is very stressed and upset, they tell her she's mental, she deserves it, it's called parenting etc etc, they even tell me this. it don't matter if i report it, dd reports it, even my dp has reported it and nothing happens.

she doesn't see him any more,not seen him for a year now, she has changed her phone number 5 times now but she likes to talk to her older brothers and her dad gets her number from them, either they give him the number, or he takes the phone off them. they don't see that there dads behaviour is wrong as this is all they have seen.....if they repeat anything to her dad about what's happening he uses it against her.

Oh my God, Davids - I am so so sorry. What you've said has absolutely sickened me. I am so so sorry for your DD and for you. You must be beside yourself seeing him do this to her. I wish you all the best in getting him stopped permanently.

There is now a trend towards also offering support to men suffering from domestic abuse in DA services in Wales now. A Women's Aid group near us now offers that service and there was recently training in how to support men effectively given in our building.

Now. I would like to make absolutely clear that what I am about to say is just my own personal opinion and not reflective of Women's Aid as a whole. Many Women's Aid workers want to work with men and welcome the moves towards doing so

But I personally do think domestic abuse is a gendered issue, simply because the power dynamic between men and women is so unequal. Let's leave out the stats for a minute that show the vast vast majority of victims are women and the vast vast majority of perpetrators are men. Men are generally bigger and stronger than women. They generally earn more money and have more freedom. Women who are being abused are generally physically powerless to stop it. Men are usually not. Women are often financially dependent on their abuser - especially if they have children, men are usually not. BUT, (and this is the crux of the matter in my opinion) society does not tacitly condone the abuse of men by women, whereas it does the abuse of women by men. Men coming forward to disclose abuse more often than not receive a lot of sympathy and get told how brave they are to have asked for help. Women are more often than not told they deserve it, are exagerating, should try harder at their relationship and try not to 'provoke' their abuser. Abuse between the genders will be an equal issue when men and women are equal.

What I also often find through my work is that male perpetrators of abuse will often accuse their female partners of abusing them - it's just another one of the mind fuck techniques they use. If women attempt to physically defend themselves their partners will say that they're 'violent'. If they shout, get upset and attempt to defend themselves verbally, their partners will say that they're 'hysterical', 'upsetting the children', 'being intimidating'. Statistics also sadly show that around 50% of the men eventually murdered by their female partners were in fact actually perpetrators of domestic abuse.

Now, before you all start to flame me - I am NOT denying there are male victims. There undoubtedly are and the reasons they do not leave or physically defend themselves are extremely complex and painful. All abuse is terrible. But I do believe that the abuse of men by women is a separate issue that requires its own support services and its own campaigns.

That's just my personal opinion. Anyone is welcome to disagree.

No flaming here - very well said.

And if the law is changed to include a charge of domestic abuse I wonder how many of those male perpetrators will actually accuse their female partners of the offence - or threaten to.

The way the last two posts read is male DV isn't as serious and a lot of men who say they are victims are making it up to deflect away that they are the abusers.

Would that about sum it up? Because I believe that's exactly how the Government see it and how the media portray it.

And if that is the case that's how it should be reported.