"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[garlicBread]

It's November 2011, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Attila I completely agree. I know we're only going down this road because she wants to get control back because I've stood up to her and said no and she'll do whatever she can to get that control back. I spoke to my counsellor on Tuesday regarding this and my worries that my mother will try to do what she can to come up top through mediation. But my counsellor said that she believes me and my solicitor believes me and my real family (DP and DD) and friends support me and believe me too so fingers crossed my mediator will too. I know I'm in a good place anyway as if my mother had listened to me in the first place then we wouldn't be at this point, and I have the text messages to prove that she has done nothing but contact me constantly, as well as the fact that she says she doesn't undermine me but this clearly undermining me anyway!

I'm back, and thank you all for your wise words. Thank you also for not judging me - I've seen a few threads on gender disasppointment which have descended into mudslinging, but I'm grateful you saw it all in context.

rhinestone - thanks for the book recommendation. I read it earlier this year and had many 'Bingo!' moments. Along with this thread, it's been very comforting to know that I'm not alone and I'm not bad or mad. Nope, I won't ever be good enough for my mother, but I'm good enough for those who matter.

Droves, peppermint and Bear - you're all right. I have the ability to be a good mother as I have seen first hand how not to do it! I want to raise a secure, well-loved confident child, not spoil him, but make sure he's praised a lot.

Mampam - Thanks for the comment about not bonding with the bump. I haven't yet, but I'm getting there.

What prompted me to post is that I've worked through a lot of issues over the last few years but have had a few wobbles in the last few weeks. It's scary being pregnant for the first time anyway, and my hormones have been surging. First my worst ever ex-EA contacted me via LinkedIn. This was someone who told me I wasn't intellectually fit to suck his c*ck and the reason he'd failed to achieve what he wanted in life was that he was stuck with a loser like me. I hadn't heard from him in years and suddenly he wanted me as a business contact. I'd heard he'd lost his job and was struggling to find another as he'd been so horrible to people in his very niche industry no one wanted to touch him. He tried to link up with a lot of ex colleagues and friends and got ignored by all. Karma, eh?

The other thing that really knocked me back was an incident with my mother after my 5 month scan. I've had a relatively arms-length relationship with her in recent years, I'm happy with the level of contact, keep it relatively cool and superficial etc. There had been some problems with earlier scans and blood tests, so a bit stressful. The 20 week scan went fine, to be honest I was a bit disconcerted to find it was a boy for the reasons given previously, but was OK. I rang my parents that night to tell them. A couple of minutes into the conversation my mother just went 'I can see there's a call coming through from your brother' and hung up on me! I mean FFS. We have had HUGE rows over the years over her habit of hanging up on me if 'call waiting' bleeps. With everyone else she continues the conversation and rings back the waiting person when it's over. I know it sounds petty, but it's symptomatic of her attitude to me and it's a particular issue over which we have battled repeatedly. We have had screaming rows about this very issue and it's a huge bone of contention. While I am amazed by the Golden Child's ability to display such perfect timing (!) you really would have thought that for once, just once, when she is being given important news about her first grandchild, my mother could refrain from hanging up on me mid-sentence as she's got a better offer.

Anyway, I spent three days after breaking down in tears and felt ill for a week. Gahhhhhhh! DP was lovely, and thinks my family are nuts. She just got to me, damn her!

However one good thing that has come out of this pregnancy is that I've reconnected with a much loved cousin, a lot older than me. Another 'black sheep' who was shunned by his family when he gave up Christianity so moved away. My mother was always paranoid about me having contact with him - she refused to speak to me for weeks after the funeral of said cousin's father. We'd gone for a quick walk around the block during the wake as he wanted some fresh air. Apparently we were laughing and hatching anti-Catholic plots. At the funeral of his father. You see what I mean about her always thinking the worst of me? My family's brand of Catholicism is pretty toxic to be honest. A lot of the women remind me of the mother in Carrie! Anyway we've had a lot of email and phone contact and he's been there, done that with toxic parents so understands and has frequently made me laugh at the ridiculousness of it all.

scifigeek that's not petty. I'd be annoyed with anyone who did that with me. I'm glad you've been able to connect with your cousin though and I think that you'll be a good support for one another.

I'm going to admit something I feel a bit stupid about. I received a text from my mother saying she's left an advent calendar outside my door for DD. I got really annoyed about it, and even more so when I realised it's the exact same one as what I gave DD. Bless my DD though, she is a sweetie, and when she realised I didn't have an advent calendar offered me the one that my mother had given her. But yeah I'm not 100% sure why I got so annoyed by it. Possibly because anything she does now just annoys me and I wish she'd just go away. Gah.

scifigeek you've just had contact with two very undermining people - one you should be well rid of by now, and one who will always have a bond with you, however much or little you see her. This stuff is hard. Any good self-indulgent stuff you can do tonight for comfort and recovery?

Bear, the "I wish she'd just go away" sentiment is what I discussed today in my last therapy session (for I am now a broadly happy and stable bunny, hurray!). My therapist is of the opinion that that kind of head-in-sand attitude on my part is a form of belief that I can't deal with the consequences of standing up to her. In my mind I can stand up to her... but it's true that in my actions, I'm just avoiding contact, avoiding having to make any decisions about contact, even...

Urgh. There is a nettle to be grasped. I'm just not sure what I want yet. Here are my options:

Option A: Tell parents that, for the time being, I don't want any contact, and I won't be coming to theirs for Christmas, as I find it too hard.

Advantage: I'll have spoken what I feel and want.

Disadvantage: They will probably turn up on my doorstap anyway, being unable to take "no" for an answer. And all hell will break loose in my extended family.

Option B: I spend 2 days at theirs for Christmas. They pretend I am still the compliant daughter they want. I pull them up on everything that pisses me off, prompting aggression/martyr act from mom and panicked appeasement from Dad.
Advantage: I attempt to set boundaries and a new way of relating to them in person. Tiny chance at taking the mature constructive road and angling for movement.
Disadgvantage: Tiniest of triggers could set me off to tell them exactly what I think of them. All hell breaks loose.

Basically, all hell will break loose either way. So which option is truest to myself: saying I don't want any interaction, or attempting boundary-filled interaction, so I'll at least have tried?

Oh, and pia I x-posted earlier and missed your post about your mother and stepfather. I just wanted to say that that is an icredibly vicious thing to say, and just vile to manipulate your DS just so she could get a dig in at you

The sense of entitlement and lack of empathy of these people still manages to surprise me.

Can you simply refuse any of her "gifts" in the future? They do not buy her the right to see your children, and certianly do not buy her the right to insult you.

Puppy yes that's how I feel. It does feel a bit scary having to commit and see one of those options out! It's DD's birthday coming up soon and she has already asked if my mother and sister are coming round in the evening as they usually do. I have said to DD that I don't know at the moment and was thinking of doing something. I don't know how to deal with it.

'Nope, I won't ever be good enough for my mother, but I'm good enough for those who matter.'

scifigeek - thank you, that is so perfectly put! That's going to be my personal mantra from now on when I think about her! Actually it applies to both my parents, I'll never be good enough for either of them.

There is so much I want to get off my chest about my parents. I feel like I was a massive disappointment to them. I don't feel that they ever loved me or liked me.

Atilla - '...toxic parents as well more often than not become toxic grandparents.'

That's what I'm afraid of. DH and I are going to have to be sooo vigilant for the slightest little comment. For a while I was thinking of going NC but that would mean I lost my siblings too as they would side with my parents. And so I'm not ready to do that.

It'sMeAndMyPuppyNow - I've decided to go with 'boundary-filled interaction', starting from the moment I tell them I'm pregnant. Anyone done this? How do you start off and what are the pitfalls etc? ANy useful phrases / tactics?

Puppy

I'd go for option A myself, seize the nettle!!. Christmas is but two days after all, have the Christmas you would like and send these rellies to Permanent Social Siberia where they belong. Setting boundaries on such people too will not work as they will disregard them entirely and make you feel bad.

You'd be far happier not being anywhere near such maladjusted creatures at Christmas time.

Pia - would pass on any gifts to the charity shop or as you have already written a childrens charity.

Rhinestone were I to set boundaries with my toxic parents, I would use basic assertiveness techniques: speak in "I" sentences, describe the action that upset you, state how it made you feel, request an alternative behaviour. Repeat like a broken record and/or leave the room if repetition seems futile.

Likely to trigger abusive rage in the toxics, where a normal person would not take offense, but at least you will be making yourself abundantly clear AND remaining mature and well-adjusted in your statements.

I discovered something when I was talking to my counsellor.

When I was younger my father left my mother when I was 7. I saw him rarely, but when I did he use to take me (and my brothers) out to theme parks, cinema, bowling etc, and buy us games and stuff. I knew he did this out of guilt and a way to make up for his lack of contact with us.

When I use to see a different counsellor a couple of years ago, he asked me why I wasn't angry at my father like I was my mother, as my father left me and rarely saw me. I didn't know at the time, but I suddenly realised when mentioning this again with my present counsellor, that the reason I've not been angry with my father because when I did see him, it was positive. When I was young, I was a daddy's girl so this also fuels it I think. But when I saw my father, he was there to make our time together fun. There were times when he would take me to London to go do things together if I asked him, such as taking me to meet and greets. My mother also use to bad mouth my father which only created more dislike to my mother rather than making me doubt my father.

I know I should probably be annoyed with my father for leaving and for rarely seeing me, but I'm just grateful that I had a somewhat positive relationship with one of my parents, and I wanted to cling onto that, for at least my only sanity, whether in denial or not.

Bear, I have the same situation with my dad. He wasn't around til I was 16, but despite ups and downs things are positive. I love spending time with him, we have a great bond and there is affection between us. The same cannot be said for my mum who pisses me off and upsets me, and therefore I know which one I prefer!

puppy I would go for the Christmas you want. Put yourself first. And dont answer the door if they come round!

It was suggested I join this thread after I posted in rellies last week about my abusive childhood making me paranoid about messing things up with ds. Everyone was v helpful.

I feel a bit more cheerful after last week, but stuff is still pissing me off. Last time mum was here, ds started dancing, which is something new, he is 14 months. And while she was encouraging him, she turned to me and said 'what's with all this' and mocked how he was dancing with his hands. I know this probably sounds very over sensitive, but I thought that was mean of her, and it reminded me of many, many times when I was a kid, where she and my abusive stepdad would laugh at things I said, and repeat them back years later and still laugh, like I was some complete moron. One that sticks out is when I said my grandparents were like another mum and dad to me (which they were, I lived them til I was eight and their house was my refuge from the abuse). Mum laughed her head off at that and said she told my grandparents that and they laughed at me too.

There were many other instances of this, but the bottom line is that I am pissed at her for being such a mean cow, and also for mocking my ds's attempt at dancing. She is meant to be coming here on Monday and I don't want her too, I have put her off for two weeks already and it's getting awkward.

ive had a massive outburst today about her n right now i feel disgusted by her??? i can only put it down to becoming a mum for second time (28 weeks) and expecting a girl its made me think about a lot of stuff dh got all of it earler. im v tired.

she hasnt replied to my last msg i will not be contacting her the idea of her visiting wen baby here disgust me too.

i am confused as its only now i feel like this just bobbed along for years. sum things i recounted to dh he remembered them wen we first met.

Mol ... I hear that the sickness and diaorrea bug is going around and its highly contagious . Would that put her off ?

Funnily enough dh suggested I say about being ill too.

Only do this if your sure it will put her off.

It's not for those who have toxics with pseudo-Florence-nightingale tendencies.

Hello all.

I've been on this thread before under my old nickname but have decided it's time to face up to a load of stuff, some of which is very personal, so I thought it was time for a change - although many people who know me personally would recognise the story if they came across it.

I have a mother and sister with bipolar disorder, a father who was aggressive and enabled my mother's behaviour, and a brother who is aggressive and a compulsive liar. They were everything to me as a child and I was brought up to believe that nothing was as important as family, so cutting them off ten years ago was very hard.

My early childhood is filled with many good memories but also horrible rows between my parents, and favouritism - mainly towards my younger brother, the longed for boy. As I grew up, various things stick out as things that I feel hurt me, from small things like having to cook dinner for the family from the age of 8 or so, to bigger things like my mother's infidelity and her involvement of us as children in her deceit. I'll try to outline some of them, partly to give you a picture of them and partly because I need to 'talk' about it at the moment.

When I was about 9 or so my mother started meeting a man or men, while taking us to the park as her cover. Soon after she packed my sister and I into a van and moved us and her work away. She left my 7 year old brother behind with my father and a bottle of whiskey. I remember her bad mouthing my father a lot and hearing her on the phone with another man.

She left again when I was 16, this time leaving us all behind and running up huge credit card bills. In the run up to this she had done all sorts of things including swings of favouritism towards whichever child gave her most attention, more bad mouthing of my father and some rather inappropriate sharing of personal, particularly sexual stuff. I remember her being convinced she had ME or MS and telling me how she'd end up blind and in a wheelchair. All 3 of us told my father we didn't want her to come back after this one but he took her back anyway and somehow I ended up seeking her attention and good graces again.

I went off to uni, met a bloke who i would later marry, and my brother moved his fiancée and her young child in with my parents, until a few days before their wedding she threatens the fiancée with a carving knife, in front of her young child. I remember my brother's phone call that night so clearly. He was terrified. They move straight in with her parents and refuse to have my mother at their wedding.

The next summer she leaves again, this time apparently retreating entirely into another personality and actually changing her name. This time when my father takes her back I cut off all contact, knowing I can't go through that again, and having the support of my fiancé. I basically threw all the love and energy I had into that relationship and married him soon after. Nearly ten years and one child and a pregnancy later we split up because our co-dependant relationship had descended into bitterness when we had children.

Since then my brother cheated on and left his wife and returned to a relationship with both parents after years resenting and hating our mother, because they supported him financially and practically. He has claimed he was bullied by his wife all those years, and they seem to have created their own little reality where he and they are all in the right. My sister supported my mother all along and attempts to reconcile have been met with attempts to bully me into a relationship with my mother because apparently everything she did was because of her mental illness and now she's on medication she is apparently wonderful. The last reconciliation attempt was going well after my split because I have learnt to control my emotions to some extent, but completely fell apart after my brother tried taking the children away from his ex-wife

And that's all just the tip of the iceberg. Now I'm a single mum to 2 wonderful kids and I do have a fairly amicable relationship with my ex and amazing support from my brother's ex wife and her family who seem to have adopted me, as well as a great set of friends. However I'm trying to actually move on with my life now and I have significant issues sexually stemming from my relationship with my mother, which did contribute to the breakdown of my marriage, and many emotional issues, not the least of which being an extremely unhealthy attitude to food, including regular binging and intermittent dieting. I just know that none of it is going to get resolved till I deal with what is hiding deep underneath it all. I don't think I can afford counselling although I had had one round on the nhs which was useful, and I just need to start by letting it out and looking for a way in to all this crap.

Sorry for the essay but I needed to start with as much of my story as I could.

hello, i feel like i am butting in, and i apologise for that, but i was recommended these threads, i see i have tons of reading to do to get up to speed, but i started a thread about my own very difficult and abusive upbringing which i describe here and my recently contacting my half brother....it is quite long but maps out exactly where i am with everything...

i have no idea what im meant to be doing but these threads were recommended...is everyone a survivor of abuse on here?

Vicarinatutu , yes , but of varying degrees of abuse , some mild .

But we are all at different stages ...some of us still have contact and are looking for help coping , some are no contact and we all sort of help each other along .

Mostly the first posts are always , "I'm not sure I should be here , or I'm not sure if it was abuse " or along those lines.

It's strange , but there are so many similarities in our stories , it's almost like there's a textbook that the abusers/toxics are working from.

Vicar , your not butting in , and are very welcome here , even if it's just for an occasional rant to let it out .

Vicar I've just read your Op from your other thread .

I'm more of a Nc person , myself . I found life better without the stress . They were making me suicidal. I had to cut them out .

The thing I want to ask you is , you have lived all your life without your birth fathers name , do you think that knowing what it is will make a difference to how you feel ? . Are you hoping for one parent who is at least decent ? .

Or would it not change anything for you ?
Would it be worth getting back in the "game" your mother plays ?,
How would you know if she would even give you the name ? ( does she even know herself ? , sorry to be so blunt there , but some women don't actually know who fathered their child)

I'm always very suspicious of anything my family does , as they have history of doing anything to try and drag me back in , I guess they miss their little target / scapegoat.

Your DH sounds lovely btw .

Ok I'm setting up camp here for a bit (so the rest of the site can have a break from me!) I am having a really tough time of it at the moment and I'm so angry about everything that is happening and has happened to me I can't escape my foul mood. I will explain more when I can get on the computer and can type properly.

I do not consider myself to have been physically abuse (dh disagrees) but I know for a fact that what my mum does and has done is emotionally abusive and frankly neglectful. According to her I am a liar.

And the thing I most struggle with? I love her, I understand her and I feel like I am the cruellest person on earth for what I am trying to do now, which is cutting all ties with her. If she kills herself it will be my fault for abandoning her and not putting up with her shit anymore. I can't help worrying about how she is feeling even though she doesn't give a crap what I am feeling.

So, ds is napping and I've escaped the horror of a living room full of annoying children with the laptop so I can moan to my heart's content.

The first thing I have to tell you is that I make excuses for my mother, I can't help it. So that's what I am going to start with, to get it out of the way.

My mum was the youngest of my gp's children. She was an "afterthought" or an accident or however you want to put it. My gps were almost in their 40's when mum was born and their other children were between 7 and 14 years older than her. Her older sisters hated her, always have and always will but she insists she loves them and does everything she can to be "friends" with them even though they don't want to know. As children they destroyed her things, attacked her and were generally insanely jealous.

When she was 9, her first nephew was born. She claims this was when she lost her "dad" because she was no longer the baby in the family. I think she was just jealous herself. When she was 13 she was sent to the other side of the country to care for her nephews because her sister couldn't cope and was physically abusive to her toddler age children. So my mum was sent to protect the kids basically. While she was there, her BIL sexually assaulted her. She says she told her parents but no-one believed her. No-one else in the family believes her to this day. I do believe her.

My mum had been desperate for a baby since her early teenage years. I was constantly told growing up about how she had 7 miscarriages before I was born and that it took her months to accept me as she couldn't believe she finally had a live baby. She was in her mid thirties when she had me and only stayed with my father because she wanted me to have a brother or sister. She suffered another 2 miscarriages but also had my brother and sister. She deveoped diabetes after my birth which she still has to this day. A "funny" little story she would tell us is that I destroyed her pancreas, my sister ruined her teeth and my brother broke her will. My father was violent and left us when I was 8. I have seen him 3 times since then, the last time being when I was 16.

My mother was the sole carer of her parents for many years after my father left. My grandad died when I was 18 and my nan is now living in a care home, my mother no longer sees her because she claims it's too upsetting for her. As a result of being the sole carer of her elderly parents as well as 3 children I understand the stress she must have been under. However this stress led her to become much more dependant on alcohol and cigarrettes than she ever had been before (she has always been a drinker).

She has taken multiple overdoses, the last one only a few weeks ago where she was told that she is at serious risk of brain damage if this continues. She drinks 2 to 3 bottles of wine a day and smokes 40+ per day. She does not eat properly or at all and never washes her clothes or herself.

This is my mum, this is why she is who she is and why I feel I can't abandon her. She has no-one else. I have always known that she picks on me because no-one else will listen and I won't leave her. But I have to now and it's killing me inside. So now I've told her story, this is why I have to figure out how to put my own childhood into words to tell you all so you can help me get some perspective.

This may take me some time so bare with me and I'm sorry for hijacking this thread.

This thread is what prompted me to come here by the way.

one thing i have learnt magneta is that as an adult you have choices, like most abusers my "parents" were abused, and they in turn abused me, however, i vowed i would never ever treat my own children in the same way, and i didnt.

i am struggling at present as i have not spoken to my mother or half brother for 12 years, my stepfather abused me and she allowed it.

he died.

i have just made contact after 12 years with my half brother but he has had a very difficult journey aswell, and is not fully recovered, he was a heroin addict for 10 years and homeless for most of that time.

my mother sent me a msg via facebook. i just fell to pieces, but i have opted to go to counselling to try and work out what to do with the feelings it stirred up.

it took me until i was 30 years old to realise that although there is an explanation for my mothers behaviour, it cannot be an excuse.
she is also an alcoholic, with a 2 bottle a day habit.

i do feel sorry for her, but that is a dangerous place for me to be, just in case i wobble and let her back in. i have decided to have some tentative contact with my half brother, but not my mother. the difficulty is going to be in keeping it that way as my brother has just split with his wife and has moved in with her.

droves - she has never told me who my father is. he is not on my birth certificate and she maintains that she cannot remember.

droves - i feel i should explain why i want to know - its not that i expect a parent, i dont have parents and i accepted that about 12 years ago.

but my son has a genetic condition, it most likely has come down my side of the family, but i would like to know my genetic history - but my mother holds all the cards and she knows it. its another bit of power to wield.