"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

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It's November 2011, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

duvet your post was very moving, and I identified with all of what you say.

One of my "families" favourite words is "stupid" or shtyoooooopid...everything is stupid, and they sneer at all these stuuuuupid things, like birthday cards with someone's position on, you know like "to my grand daughter" that's stuuuupid, like people saying aawww, at a picture of a kitten, that's stuuupid too. And the amount of eye rolling that goes on with them is astonishing. Shop assistants are stuuuupid, ALL men are stuuuuupid, people who hug a lot are stuuuupid.

But at the same time, I wish I hadn't been singled out for the life of the one who has to work it all out,I wish, sometimes, that I still had a family, but I can't, because the world and everything in it, is NOT stuuuuupid.

I am so jealous of people with healthy families, or just those that appear to be healthy...It is something that I don't believe I will ever really get over.

Hey all, I am amazed to hear you say you have had similar experiences! This gives me hope, even though we're all struggling - or hopefully have done the struggling and come through - it's just nice to know I'm not the only one.

Gobby - yes, it's all stupid in my family too. No-one expresses their love, their role. My poor DH can't even call his parents mum and dad, he always had to use first names.

Today I am going to practise not saying cynical things. I am not going to push myself too hard, I don't need to be Mary Poppins, but I am going to make a mental note every time a snipey sneery thought pops up, and I'm going to smack it down with a mallet, and give myself a mental hug instead of spewing misery like my parents x

Hello,

Can I ask to all you of a question?
I don't have toxic family but H has. As I have been reading these posts here, I can recognized H so much. The sneering, can't enjoy anything because it's stupid, can't let anyone come close emotionally, being completely shut off his own feelings.

With all that bagage, how do you deal with your own dcs?
H seems to have gone right back to the way his own parents dealt with him, criticizing, putting down etc... And talking to him doesn't seem to get through.
When I tell him some of ds comments such as 'daddy makes me feel like I am an idiot', he doesn't react. :(:(

Yes, "mother" went through a phase of making us call her by her name. Now THAT is stuuuupid!!!!!!

She used to get REALLY angry with me for cooing and goo goo ing ds, when he was little, saying that it was of course, stuuuupid, and that he would not learn how to speak properly, that it would be my fault, terrible mother, blar, blar...there is plenty of research to show that that kind of baby talk is actually highly beneficial! She hated my breast feeding too, and tried every trick in the book to manipulate me into stopping. After having read the Narcissism book, that is a massive two fingers to "mother", who could not be more wrong.

When ds was in hospital, in isolation, very, very poorly...she yelled at me for crying! I knew it felt wrong at the time, and now I know just exactly how wrong! My baby was really ill...of course I'm going to feel sad and upset and scared...all things that warrant tears!

Good for you for breaking the pattern! Aww...have a massive hug!!!!

Hello Traveller

Tricky....does he accept that he is doing this? Does he accept that his family are not like other families?

I'm afraid my solution was pretty drastic...I have cut the lot of them right out of our lives. Hopefully there is something a bit less dramatic as a solution for you.

Gobby I have no diea. He doesn't talk about what he thinks, feels, ever. When he does it's so diluted and sanitized it doesn't have any meaning.

Just been though a stage when I told him I would want divorce if he wasn't stopping the putting down. It has got better but I think he is acting mainly out of fear of losing his marriage.
And anything that looks like he will have to look at himself is met with blank looks (think of a rabbit caught in the lights of a car). Or by being very negative about himself 'I am an awful parent'. Not 'OK we have a problem what can we do about it'

We are due to go and see a family counsellor, specialized in children for a first assessment. She would like both of us to be there (fair enough). But part of me would much prefer going on my own.
I knopw he will not say a word of any meaning. And If i do speak, it will look very very harsh (and will be for him tbh)

Does he accept that his family are not like other families?

I am not convinced he has quite realized tbh. Perhaps because he hasn't seen other families behaving like that or because he is choosing not to see them.

Family counsellor is brilliant...and it is important that he goes...is he happy to go?

It is extremely difficult to acknowledge coming from a dysfunctional family, and the coping mechanisms that were installed in childhood are seriously difficult to see, and then stop....that's kind of what this entire thread is about. I have been posting here for years now.

Thanks Thumbelina but believe me if you had seen me the night before or the morning of, I wasn't together at all. I've hardly slept this week through worry. And I know I still have a fight on my hands, and that it will be difficult, and there will be times that I will self doubt again and question myself, but I'm hoping I'll be more stronger this time.

duvet knowing I'm not the only one who has suffered the way I have has helped me a lot. It's nice to know that I'm not just an odd ball in the world who doesn't have a normal family. I also was like that, but least now you are aware of it which is a big step, even more so if you can be conscious of it when you are doing it. Don't be too hard on yourself.

Traveller with my DD, for a while I was paranoid I was going to turn out like my mother. I found it very difficult to open up and speak about my past and my problems. When I first met DP, I was very distant from him but he was very patient and earnt my trust. Everybody's different though. The family counsellor will hopefully help a lot. Particularly if they can help your DH look at his family and see. As gobby said, it is difficult to realise it, it took me a long time, as we're so use to what we think is "normal" and having to cope with that, that unfortunately it comes naturally in other areas of our lives. For example, I use to always shut down around my mother and I was like that at work too but didn't realise.

Hi everyone , Duvet , I felt exactly the same way you did about the sneering too , god it was so depressing being around someone who is so crittical and unable to see the good in everything. I also found myself at times joining in with the toxics , as a way of getting them to lay off and ,(I suppose) love me .
Now I look back and see it with hindsight I'm very ashamed that I stooped so low as to try and be more like them.

It's easier to rectify that with the no contact I now have. I don't see it , and only choose to be around nice people , so I behave nicer myself. I learned positive relationships have a very good effect on me.

When I was around the toxic mother I would have done anything to please her , to gain her approval. I never ever got it.
I was the first in our family to be accepted onto a degree course at college , at 17 yes old.
Business admin ,with travel and tourism....not an easy course , not the hardest but still over and above the level of education my parents had at that point.
On telling my parents I got a quick " well done" form dad , and a " what's that for ? (tourism bit) ,then "so you want to be an air hostess ? , you need to go to college to learn to pour coffee ? What a waste."
My mother was relentless in her criticism of the course , and of she found more and more tasks for me to do whilst trying to study..(she had a newborn at this point and I had to basically do everything for him when at home, she even had me walk up and down the street pushing his pram when he wouldn't sleep ...so she (sahm) could sleep. (along with childcare of my other two brothers and all the household cleaning and cooking , I even did the shopping and had to walk miles to the shops , because she wouldn't allow me to spend bus fare....her one kindness was I was to get a taxi home because ther would be to many bags for me to carry.
Also given that I had an extortionate "rent" to pay her for the bedroom I had , I also had to work .
No big surprise that I failed the course. . On learning this , her face broke out in the biggest grin and I always remember the words she said to me ..." I knew you were useless,"

Soon after that I met And married exDh , he was in hindsight every bit as toxic as my mother , but had a veneer of kindness at first . I divorced him due to his dv ,controlling behavior and the fact he had a 3 year affair with another man ( he bi , but forgot to tell me , and didn't think it counted as an affair because it wasn't another woman , wtf ? )

I met dh , married him , had counseling ect , got off the ads , regained contact with my paternal grandparents .

I hadn't seen them for over 18 years . The last conversation I had with my grandmother was when i was little ( about 10ish) , I told her I was going to grow up and become an interior designer , and Id come and do her house for free. She asked me why I never followed my dream?.
Ive been thinking on that , and I have realized I was never allowed to , my dreams were crushed .I left home with no confidence and very very poor self esteem .

Slowly it has creeped back . I'm actually a very talented person. I make jewellery , and silk floral displays. I've done wedding flowers for myself and friends , and Xmas decorations. I sew pretty well to and have dabbled with upholstery .And I paint and draw well.
I've gutted my house and decorated and furnished it and everyone tells me it's lovely.

So ,as part of my reclaiming of my life from the toxics , I have applied for a 3d design course at college.
I'm going to work my socks off , but I know I can do this ...and this time there is no one to stop me , or crush my dreams.
I'm going to do my best to keep my promise to my grandmother and become an interior designer. It's my latest two finger sign towards the toxics.!.

I was today when I had the interview , and the tutor said I clearly " had talent ", as he looked through my portfolio.

I can just imagine my mother splitting hairs at the thought of me being accepted back into college . She'd do this face ->.
Hahaha .I might just send her a graduation photo when I pass ! (I know I'm being infantile , indulge me).

Anyway , sorry for the all about me rant , I was just feeling proud of myself for once in a very very long time. Its hard to believe I'm the same person who posted years ago for the first time on the stately homes thread . . . . Amazing amount of support I've had from you all ... And it shows .

Thank you. X

Traveller , I think perhaps , your Dh is still acting under his nominated "role" . Ifykwim ? . It can take a very very long time to come out from under the "spell" or conditioning of the toxics.
Councilin is defo the way forward , but I'm concerned that you dh would rather label himself as a bad parent ,instead of dealing with the problem. It's like he's been conditioned to take the blame on himself...so continues the circle of toxicity ( am I making sense here ? ).
It may be that he causes slight problems ,unintentionally , so he can continue in his "role" .If he doesn't get out of the habit , he may end up being toxic himself.(which is why you get toxic "families"...). Unless he is a true narcissist there is always scope for re-training his thought patterns , cbt is very good.

Aww droves, I'm so happy for you! Yes follow your dreams! I did! I went back to college and then uni 3 years ago and so glad I did it as I've been able to follow my dream to be a photographer which I now do as self employed. I remember telling my mother I was going back to college at the age of 24 and she was shocked and tried to talk me out of it and how I was wasting my time. Don't regret a thing!

Both my ex's were similar to my mother in trying to control me and belittle me. DD's father lied to me a lot to keep me in our relationship and though we don't really get on now, we're civil to each other for DD's sake, but I get on really well with his parents and sister so I chat with them whilst ex sits and watches tv instead of playing with DD

My other ex was a nightmare. We argued at least once a week, he only hit me the once but that's enough. He would team up with my mother about my faults. He tried to be first before DD in my priorities, and he also used me to make the girls at his work jealous. I remember him parading me round his work to all the girls and then afterwards saying to me "did you see their faces!? Ha, they're so jealous that they wish they were in your shoes." Charming chap he was. I believe he cheated on me a couple of times.

So my trust in men was zilch until I met DP. After we both realised we both liked each other, I confided in him my issue and that I didn't feel ready for relationships. We met through a mutual friend, who had told him about my crap relationships before so he knew I was "damaged goods". But he was amazing, and told me he would wait for me. Four months later, I just thought "what the hell, I'll just go for it!" and haven't regretted it. We celebrate our four year anniversary next month :)

The thing about "all about me rants" is that we all have something validated by them! That's brilliant isn't it? It is the antithesis of toxic...we get to be free, to be ourselves, tell our truth, and end up helping others as well!!!!! That's just amazing!

I was the "domestic" at home too...doing shopping, cooking and childcare. It carried over a generation too, where I ended up looking after my niece, as my little sister was too busy partying and shoving cocaine up her wretched nose, to be bothered with her daughter. Losing contact with my niece is my only regret.

I always likened myself to Cinderella. Although I think since being here, in this gilded cage, I feel more like Rapunzel.

I now have two toxic marriages under my belt. By the time I got out of my first marriage, I hated him. He raped me repeatedly, he humiliated me in public, he had sex with my mother. It makes me feel sick.

When H2 came along, it was like an escape. And here I am three months out of the prison he created. I see no one, speak to no one. At least I am allowed Facebook now. It's terrible what I have endured...and like every other Stately Homer, at the beginning, I didn't think it was that bad for me. It was...it has been a total horror story.

That is what I am grappling with now...the sheer disbelief at just how horrible my life has actually been. I am angry and resentful, and incredibly sad.

I think that's the worst thing about toxic relationships/people .
You get conditioned to think it's "normal" , or at the least not that bad when in fact your living in a soul destroying nightmare.

I too didn't think it was that bad until I had my own children, and noticed a marked difference between how I treat them ,and how I was treated as a child.

I used to think I was like Cinderella too as a child. ..and I was shocked to learn most kids do not clean toilets , and cook their own dinner by the age of 7.

Gobby take that anger and resentment and use it. Turn it into angry energy to do something you want to do .

I'd used mine , to give me the drive to do a portfolio in a week ! . My hands were aching but I kept on ...I just imagined wiping that nasty smug look of my mothers face when she finds out I've achieved something I always wanted to do , that she tried to stop me.

Gobby , why do you feel like rapunzel ? I think your more like Aladdin on a magic carpet ...your free , you can do anything you want and go anywhere you like !

Wish I had a magic lamp for you to wish on , but still your at the beginning of your very own story .

3 months free , I was like a headless chicken at that stage when I left exh .
I confess to being a little bit wild , a little bit slutty and a little bit confused as to what I was supposed to do with my life ? . 10 years of ex telling me what to do and what to wear and how to act ....oh god i am when I think about what I got up too .
....for example ...to celebrate the divorce I went skinny dipping , at 3 in the afternoon on a public beach .
Then won a competition for pole dancing in a bar .
Then bought hundreds of clothes
Then changed bf about once a month for 7 months in a row !

Looking back I think it was my teenage rebellion stage 10 years too late ! ..I went from being mums slave to exh 's slave with no in-between. I honestly had no idea about how to act appropriately, I had spent all my life doing as I was told and didnt have a clue when it came to what going too far is .

I don't know how. That's dead, dead sad. I don't know how to "get a life". I am ill now too, and have a lot of pain and little energy. I get up and get the dc's out, then come home and stare out of the window...I have work sometimes, although this week is quiet...but that doesn't involve human contact either, as it's all remote. I have never met most of the people I work for...and a massive amount of my work came through h.

I have bought new clothes though. He says it's alright for me, I have the kids, and I'm in the family home...and I point out that he chose to punch me in the face, and that these circumstances are a consequence of that action.

It's early days. At least this time he told "mother" that he wanted nothing to do with her.

Gobby well done for standing up for yourself , don't let your ex's self pity get to you . What you said about his choice and resulting consequence is exactly right !

You might not think it , but you've already started to blossom ...

The fact you've got work , is a huge positive step. It will only lead to bigger things !

I'm sorry you've been poorly , and hope it goes and that your pain free soon. Sometimes stress stops us fighting illness as well as we should .

As for getting a life ...you have one already , and it's a great start .... You might want to tweak it a little bit , try joining a class or asking another mum round for playdate and coffee ? I know it sounds silly , but it's how I met my best friend .

Before I split from exh , we moved 60 miles away from our home town ( to get away from his crazy boyfriend, but didn't know it at the time).

I honestly knew not one person , had no family ,the only adults I saw were the dc's teachers , the doctor , and the dentist....and maybe the window cleaner.
I never felt so alone in my life ( and that saying something) .
I even took out a provident loan so that once a week , could have someone "visit" during the day ! How sad is that ? .
First time I started chatting to another mum I was terrified shed think I was a twat. But she didn't , and we would have a wee chat everyday as we waited for our dc at the school.
Eventually it got to coffee stage and I met more people and gained a few friends ...now I can't go over the door without seeing someone I know ....

Gobby I think your great and I'd love to be your rl friend , your kind and clever and insightful , just my kind of buddy x.

I put mascara on this morning...which I don't normally do...as a bit of a boost..and now you've made me cry droves so it's coming off!

I do chat a bit to the mums at school, but I feel like a bit of a freak...some of them know, most don't. I feel, with all of this, like i've been on some horrific theme park ride, and my legs are a bit wobbly on the ground.

That's exactly how I used to feel Gobby . Wobbly legs , sweaty palms ,the lot !

It does get easier the more you do it . ( I had to force myself to talk to people , had been on my own except for kids and exh , so sort had forgot how to speak keep a conversation going ) .

I'm sorry about making you cry .... Mabybelline waterproof mascara is quite good , but I prefer dying my lashes as I'm a bit of a burst pipe at times ! It easy when you get the hang of it !

Lol , make- up is a bit of an addiction now with me too.
Exh wouldn't give me money for anything tbh , so I went a bit yeeahaa at boots ! First time I bought fake tan I went overboard with it and was bright orange , until one of the school mums kindly pointed out that I wasn't supposed to use a full bottle each time I put it on !

< crying with laughter here> , omg , what I must have looked like ... Five foot , 7 stone and bright orange .... Anorexic ompa loompa ? ...not to mention I had ginger hair at the time. ( blonde dye went wrong )

Worst bit was I thought I looked fab ! .

Googling for very different subject than relationships, I found a very interresting article. This is an extract of it. I thought you might enjoy it.

There?s nothing wrong with wanting more out of life, to the contrary it is not good to not want more out of life if you get my drift. If you aren?t wanting more out of life chances are that you?re settling for what is and you?ve stopped going for the best you can get.

The problem is when you only get the same over and over, no matter what area it?s in, your standards go down as it?s easier to lower your standards than be disappointed all the time. But the problem is when you lower your standards you stop being able to achieve things above that standard.

There?s nothing more disappointing at the end of life as when you feel you settled. It?s better to risk it and fail sometimes than stop trying all together. But this is why most people settle as it?s the risk of feeling like a failure, a no one, a nothing. It puts the brakes on future greatness and having it all.

It's better to take a risk and fail than to stop trying.

There?s nothing more disappointing at the end of life as when you feel you settled - Well, as someone who's never felt settled, I dispute that.

I'm really not keen on excessive go-getting; it's often an excuse to avoid staying still long enough to look at where you are. Like a 'life' version of those whistle-stop bus tours.

Another quote:
"What is this life if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare?"

Feels like something I want to post on the dating thread at the moment!