how can I reign him in?

[KlickKlackknobsac]

My dh is a nightmare.
If he has money it just slips through his fingers.
I have worked full time for last 9 years despite having 3dc. I pay mortgage, utility bills, food bills, SKY bill, dental costs, all clothes for kids etc etc.
If DH has money he buys a house or invests it- would rather do that than put money ion the bank. He is not money focused really- I think the houses are a game of Monopoly to him.

I also pay for holidays. My savings have now disappeared and I am starting to get worried.
18 months ago he took out a £25K loan in my name without my knowledge (I had to sign at last minute of course) fom joint account. Last month he took £570 from my account without asking or telling me. Today we discussed some building work and agreed we should leave it as we can't afford it at the mo- at 3.30pm the concrete lorry turns up!!!
What can I do to sort him out??

Didn't mean my post to look like a disguised 'I told you so.' People do step up to the mark when faced with financial shit - I have seen it when I was an adviser at the CAB. And learn their lesson. (It tends to be the younger ones who do that, though.)

So he could have done that when confronted with reality. And that's what the man you thought he was would have done.

Sorry, this post is about me as much as you

You know what they say? A persons true character comes out under stress. This is him, a bully, violent, abusive.

How awful for you op, how terrible.

I'd be pretty sure, that this is a house of cards right now. That there is A LOT more to this than you know. It's a worse position or I don't know not entirely legit. Or both. Either way his reaction confirms this easily. He is panicked

Threatening suicide et al. Such an abusive tactic. The fact he is threatening violence to people and saying he'd want to do time. Tells you the man he is. You thought he was going to punch the crap out of you?

You need a solicitor klack asap. Hopefully this has helped you change your wind wrt to going and the damage it may cause. You have to now, and find out how much crap you are in. Protect yourself.

KKK am so sad to read how this is turning out

I hope at some level you can reach out to him to give you full disclosure so you can move forward and rescue the situation financially if nothing else.

I can't imagine being threatened like that

Hi op been watching this thread and feel for you, imo I think he is going to take you down with him if push comes to shove so start paddling your own canoe and get the hell out of this, he's a dreamer and they can be very charming when it suits but are a nightmare to be married to, like havin a teen around who's too volatile to tackle, as others have said find a solicitor and take advice, your finances sound complicated sorry can't get my head around them enough to give you any advice

Klick you will be ok. You have a job. If you need to you can move out and rent somewhere for you and the children. He will have to fend for himself for once. You have two main difficulties to deal with first.

1. His violence towards you. You MUST keep yourself safe. Make that a priority. Try not to be alone with him. If he is threatening violence report it to the police so that they have a record. If he threatens or is violent to himself, that's for him to sort out, not you.

2. Your financial debt. You will need to find out what you owe to who. If you can make small part payments regularly most companies will accept that. The worst thing that can happen financially is that you declare yourself bankrupt and that is not the end of the world. As long as you have an income you and the children will be able to build a life for yourselves without him.

You should see a solicitor and possibly a financial advisor.

This is a bit like watching a slow-motion car crash :(

Reading between the lines (or trying to) he sounds like he's been in denial for quite some time; he feels a failure for 'letting you down', for not measuring up to his friends... and he's deflecting this in anger against you, because you've made him square up to the results of his actions.

It seems to me that your choices are fairly black and white - to stay, help him sort through the tangle he's immersed in and then address whether you want to remain as a couple after that, or look now to removing yourself and DC's from the hubris he's created.

Whatever you choose, take a breath, allow the dust to settle from this (first, as there will be more) reality check. The hard part for you will be the next few days as you start to see your DH in a different light, and deciding if remaining with this man is the right choice. There are many questions to ask of yourselves as a couple...counselling would help you through it but I suspect he'd be very reluctant to go. He needs to face up to the consequences of his actions, is he likely to do that? Has he done so in the past?

Im so sorry KK, matters just seem to have gone from bad to worse. FWIW I think this would have happened soon anyway, the only difference being the banks/debtors/tenants as catalyst.

Thanks for kind words.
I have done part of spreadsheet now- 17 properties (this is not them all) and seen all mortgage paperwork etc. There are 8 which are joint, 3 just in my name. Need to get his bank statements now and see monthly cost of mortgages and reconcile that with each address. On bright side I have done a very low valuation of each one and compared this total to purchase price and it comes back at £658,747 profit. Not so far away from my initial estimate. Still working on that spreadsheet.
Re decision to split- that may be out of my hands anyway if dh follows through with what he has said this morning then it isn't my choice. I am not so upset as I might have been (which makes me think this might be the right thing to do) but I am not so sure I want to just give up yet. Part of it is his reaction to me really questioning him and pushing him. But if he is willing to agree to future route re finances eventually then I would be much happier with that.
His anger and violence is another issue.
He certainly can be a bastard. Its hidden deep within him, and he spends most of his time being nice as pie, but he is unpredictable- has very 'strong passions' just below the surface.
I need to see if he can get this sorted.

Maybe we just need a break. I will keep posting when I can.
PS Maybe that profit margin I calculated is what gives him his arrogance? He focuses on that possibility, and can't see what the fuss is about (as women we all understand that security is the only thing that matters). Tried to get on dadsnet for male view but can't type in security properly!!

He is violent. He is abusive. He is a controlling bully. It is not hidden deep within him.

£658,000 over what, 16 years? That's an average yearly income of about £40,000 before tax. Not bad if you actually get to see any of it.

Figures on paper are not the same as hard cash. Why does he think you'll be broke and living in a field if you sell everything. What is he not telling you still.

Keep digging Klick. What's the plan for this evening? I think the last thing you want to do is go to a party with him and the children. Adding alcohol to this volatile mix is not going to help anyone. Just be careful . . .

Klick- first priority is to stay safe. Agree with Scarey- watch out tonight if alcohol is involved. It would probably be wise for you and the children to make your own way there and let him get there independently so that you are not reliant on him to stay sober and calm.

Can you contact the tenant to warn him about DH's threats?

If DH has been violent or threatening towards you (I'm not sure of the extent of this from your posts) do you feel up to ringing the DV unit of your local police to talk things through with them and flag up your name and address in case you need to make an emergency call in the future?

Do you have access to landline and mobile in case you do need to make any calls ?

The money is probably not your main concern now, but don't forget that the 600k "profit" also needs adjusting to allow for all the mortgage interest repayments - depending on how he's been running his affairs, that might well all be swallowed up on mortgage payments owed. You might need to consider the possibility that he's defaulted.

Just to reiterate what others have said- his violent reactions are not your fault for asking questions. It's utterly reasonable to want to understand your financial affairs. His violence is down to him alone.

Just want to add my support in to the mix. From an outsider's view who has never had 2 penies to rub together, but who has watched my parents work the property market (oh, to have belonged to the Baby Boomers!!) it does look very dodgy that he has gone off and done 'the property thing' without any joint discussions and negotiations, while allowing you to pay for him to do it. My parents both worked full time while they did their thing between them - making sure that the bills were paid, the food was on the table, and a roof was over their head came before any kind of financial gambling. They made alot but they also had the odd crisis where they lost. My dad did not take it well, in fact it drove him to a breakdown, but at all times my mother knew what was going on and the decisions were made between them (despite my dad feeling responsible) And he worked full time as well.
It seems that you have been the one who has funded your husband to play at this - you have shouldered all the responsibility of looking after the finances of the family while he is playing fast and loose in a gambling lifestyle, with no boundaries or responsibility - in fact feeling entitled to take from you and further your burden when he feels like it. Has he ever held down a job, done something he doesnt particularly want to do for the better of the family? You say he doesnt contribute financially, he doesnt help around the home, with the children? It doesnt really sound like an equal division of work/responsibility or financial security at all. The way you talk about him is similar to the way people speak about their addicted partners - be that drink/drugs/gambling/porn, etc I am sorry to say. He seems to be addicted to the adrenalin and highs of buying and selling, and that is his professional life, but he is not paying hs way. If it needs to stop then, given your calculations, there IS a profit there - but none of it has made it back into the family, and the family has to come first. No wonder he is screaming and shouting - you want him to stop playing and act like an equal in the relationship - get a job if need be, and thats no fun, especially when you have got awa with being bankrolled for so long.
No advice though, only to add that I agree with what others have said. And that all the threats and proclaimations are hot air waffle designed to make you panic and leave him to his own devices.

Blimey!

First off, KK, can I just congratulate you on being an amazing woman. Seriously. Not only do you have an immense capacity for love, you're also the competent, capable businesswoman-cum-mother who has, essentially, been a single parent all these years while still handing out the love. As if that's not already more than enough, your innate intelligence alerted you to the fact that stuff was going badly wrong and you sat down and addressed it. Don't ever underestimate the brilliance of what you're doing here.

I expected this to happen, but not so suddenly. Even in mid-meltdown, he still managed to reject all responsibility (It's the non-paying tenant's fault? Er, no, it's the fault of the man who built a precarious empire that never pays out.) The threats to beat up said tenant, go to prison, live in a field and hurt you seem, unfortunately, to be expressions of his world: one where he is either king or pauper, with no responsibility either way; where anyone and everyone else is to blame and he claims the right to punish them. Bit of a blow for you.

I shan't add to your sensible replies, especially as your head's getting more screwed on by the hour! I'll repeat the warnings, though, that after the storm will probably come a full-scale charm attempt followed by determined manipulation.

Who can you call on for moral and practical support? Call them.
Keep going ... You so are going to be all right, however this shakes out :)

KK I am so sorry to hear how this is working out.

Sort out those properties in your name and joint names first because those are the ones that place your security at the most direct risk if their mortgage payments aren't up to date etc.

Is the loan in your name or joint names? Where are the loan repayments coming from?

Well done for taking control when you have because I am sure your DH would have carried on spending.

Take care.

KK just wondering how you are.

Yeah me too?

Ok following huge fight dh came back and charm offensive ensued. Whilst he was gone I did most of spreadsheet and I showed it him. I got him to get bank statements and other evidence (I have already seen all mortgage agreements to said properties) so I could complete it.
We have agreed on figures- there are clear areas of loss like 3 properties unrented that need selling, the non-payer (solicitor has been instructed to issue a section 8) and the loan. We have agreed which houses to sell and are arguing about a couple of others. May need to sell main home which has large profit margin too. I am getting him to see that future profit does not equate to security now. I am working on getting main house on the market plus one other that we have agreed to. Next step is to discover what his money is going on (he should have £1700 pcm) after all incomings and outgoings (petrol, visas, dd's etc) are taken into account. We think its going on costs such as repairs to properties which he has not kept clear records of (that we can easily find anyway). I have told him to keep all receipts and so on for next couple of months and I want to see bank statements etc to find out where it is going. I did suggest a lovechild, but I think it is more likely that he is helping out a couple of mates. Plus his Dad is apparently not financially independent and he is helping him out too (he has shown me some emails). Think it may be the case that he feels richer than he is....
Thanks for all kind messages. Seem to have the upper hand at the moment (and he is eating from it).
Will keep you updated.

Inertia he went to a mates not the tenant thankfully.
The mortgage offers say all over them ' this mortgage will not pay of the original cost of the property' so I have definitely taken the cost of the properties into account. All up to date correspondence is in the files and he is up to date on all mortgages. I have discussed transferring a couple more houses to repayment (those we intend to keep longer) as well.
I told him that just his threats justify a call to the police- he is suitably ashamed at the moment. It seems to have been his final protest before the inevitable 'investigation by wife' begins- he has accepted that we have to do it together from now on. However, I am fully aware that this behaviour is not ever acceptable and the feminist in me wants to chop off his knobsac!! (and wear it as a hat).
Thanks for all advice Inertia.

Does he pay tax on his income? He can offset repairs if he keeps the receipts. If not, he is not running this 'business' properly and it's no wonder he gets himself in a mess. Also, if he's not paying tax, he may be landed with a big tax bill and fines when they catch up with him. He should get his books in order. He should also be giving you a return on your investment.

I am surprised that you seem ok with the idea that he still might be hiding stuff from you such as what he's spending money on. A love child? Flippin' heck OP, what are you prepared to accept from this man?

Still, as long as you're happy, I suppose

OP, I wouldn't be able to sleep if my financial security was in the hands of this man. Please, please think. It is not charming, or sweet, or amusing, or endearing that he is so shit with money. It is fucking dangerous. Seriously, I literally would be rocking in a corner if my DH was playing so fast and loose with our finances. Take control for your own, and your childrens', sake. Protect yourself. Get advice and start squirreling cash away. And for God's sake don't sign anything else.

I'd call in an accountant to sort it all out, offset the cost of repairs and tax relief on the interst and also advice as to the capital gains exposure for each property which would help you decide which to sell.

Doing it youself you could miss some taz savings.

I certainly would not sell the main home.

tax

Agree with WetAugust.

do you not have a company accountant? Who has been filing the yearly tax returns? How can he not be keeping reciepts - this is supposed to be a business? You cant just take money from a business (as earnings??? £1700 a month, not including travel expenses, etc) without declaring them somewhere - thats over £20 grand a year he has been taking tax free. I would be very concerned that you may be getting a big shock if IR get wind of his 'schemes' as they appear to be trying to go beneath their radar - what if the unpaying tennant reports you to the tax office as revenge?? I cannot believe that he has been doing this for years without any tax record, and that means keeping reciepts for everything. Is the company not registered? Is he a sole trader or a partner - if partners have been paid off there must be an accounting trail or is it another loose 'unofficial' transaction? The business should be registered for company tax, if he is a ltd company (which I doubt, given the info) then is he drawing a directors wage from it? If not limited then I am guessing he is going it alone, which means he is liable for submitting tax returns yearly. Is he VAT registered? I would have thought that with that number of properties and 'assets' that this is another area you need to be wary of Customs and Excise have some hefty strong powers, and YOU might find yourself in problems, especially as properties are in your name and are not the main residence, they definately will be classed as a business. You may find that you should have declared them on your own tax returns, even if they have not made a profit.
Has no one contacted him about what he is actually doing over the last few years - I am thinking that NI people would be suspicious - he should either be registered as self employed, not working or NI exempt?
I am guessing that his whole business has been done 'under the radar' eg it is illegal. Its all very well if you are buying and selling stuff which has no trace, cash in hand, you MIGHT get away with it, but if its things like houses which have mortgages on them, then its not so easy to hide the paper trail. Mortgage companies wont ask (his business dealings, tax, etc are HIS business), although I am surprised that they have not asked for proof on incomes before - maybe he used your income initially and then has traded off the investment in your own home. I would be very worried and agree that you need to get an accountant in asap so that at least you know that everything is above board.

Just again, the selling of just ONE property will push you over the VAT threshold, which is based on turnover and not profit. I would be very very worried if I were you, and for your own protection I would take financial advice as to how to extracate yourself from the loans/houses in your name. You dont want to end up in prison for tax fraud at his hand, and if you signed the paperwork then its going to be hard for any judge to believe that you are not in this together.

Thanks all again for clever advice.
I was not serious about the lovechild!
I pay PAYE tax on my job and have an additional tax bill related to the properties each year- therefore there is an accountant and accounts are being submitted. Dh also pays tax.
Property transactions are VAT exempt.
But not capital gains tax exempt.
He has receipts for lots but not what I wanted straight away.
I will pursue all that is suggested and report back.

You're doing brilliantly, OP. I'm really impressed at the way you're taking control of your finances and your life.