how can I reign him in?

[KlickKlackknobsac]

My dh is a nightmare.
If he has money it just slips through his fingers.
I have worked full time for last 9 years despite having 3dc. I pay mortgage, utility bills, food bills, SKY bill, dental costs, all clothes for kids etc etc.
If DH has money he buys a house or invests it- would rather do that than put money ion the bank. He is not money focused really- I think the houses are a game of Monopoly to him.

I also pay for holidays. My savings have now disappeared and I am starting to get worried.
18 months ago he took out a £25K loan in my name without my knowledge (I had to sign at last minute of course) fom joint account. Last month he took £570 from my account without asking or telling me. Today we discussed some building work and agreed we should leave it as we can't afford it at the mo- at 3.30pm the concrete lorry turns up!!!
What can I do to sort him out??

klickklack I have experienced something of what you have - over the years I began to "just sign" things put in front of me. Not Good. It did not go financially pear shaped for me thank goodness, but after 25yrs he did meet someone younger! I can't tell you what a joy it is to now know exactly how much money is in my account, to know where it comes from, what is going out. I now have to worry about money in a different way, I worry about where my next (freelance) job will be and whether I will have to eat into savings to repair the boiler (I have become quite a competent plumber!), I don't have to worry that I'm living in a house of cards and that we might suddenly lose it all. You really do need to get some control back.

If you want to be strategic tell him you've read about someone who's dh went under the proverbial bus and they were totally up the creek because they did not know anything about their financial arrangements - missing vital repayments etc. Tell him you want to get your financial affairs in order, get the wills revised, appoint executors and trustees (if need be) for the kids - and this has spooked you so can he please give you a complete financial breakdown so that if he does go under a bus you know what to do.

" would you really just divorce someone because they are a dreamer? And crap with money?"

I wouldn't, but I think I might divorce someone for stealing £25,570 from me, which is basically what you have described in your OP.

OP signed the loan form Balloon and is not coming across as stupid or naive in her posts. She has two houses in her name, that doesn't happen by accident.

She went on to say "I agreed because he told me it would be paid off immediately and a house sale depended on it.
Of course this did not happen."

So he took out a loan in her name, promising he would pay her back immediately, and has not done so. So she is now in debt to the tune of £25k with nothing to show for it.

OK maybe it's not stealing. But it depends on your perspective. I suppose he "did not intend to permanently deprive her of it." But it feels like stealing to me.

1. You don't have any assets. Interest free mortgages are basically paying rent to the bank for the property.
2. In a housing market like this one, you don't have any equity. You wouldn't be able to sell the properties quickly if you needed to- except at auction and in that case you'd be damn lucky to cover the mortgages on them.

How about starting with his tax returns for a few years(with the workings)?

He can't object to that surely but it might give you a bit of an idea of what's going on. If he's declaring loads of income then you can ask where the money is going. If none then ask him him why not (if he's been doing this for years)

I apologise, KK, for my offensive wording there and I regret being so suspicious of your husband's motives. I should, perhaps, have clarified that my cynicism is born of personal experience ... and that abuse, financial or otherwise, can and does happen without the abuser's having sat down and formulated a deliberate plan. It's still abuse.

In remaining almost wilfully ignorant of your family's finances, I maintain that you value blind trust - and it is blind, since you don't have the facts and won't seek them - above fact. That is the mindset of an abuse target ... or a gambler, whose trust is (knowingly) abused by the gambling industry.

Sticking with gambling for a minute: Having interest-only mortgages on incestment properties is gambling. The property can only accrue equity if its value rises at a rate higher than the lender's rate. If you gambled on an over-geared market and the market slows, as now, it cannot supply this equity and you lose. Assuming you also renovate the properties to add value, you also gamble on your works adding more value than the cost of the works. If you borrow more to finance the works, you're gambling on quite a slim margin [added value - (loan capital + interest)] as well as on the market remaining buoyant enough to realise the margin.

So you are currently double-gambling on the property market and also gambling on your husband's honesty. Both look deeply unwise: The market's been advertising its disinclination to pay out for a good eight years now, and your H has advertised his dishonesty by taking money without telling you. Worst of all, you are gambling without knowing your odds because, as you say, you don't know the fact

It's bewildering that you don't know the facts and won't seek them! Why not? Why do you believe it would threaten your marriage to seek facts? Why doesn't that sound like an alarm bell to you?

Why aren't you audited? Who does your tax returns? Why won't you talk honestly with H's partner? I really feel you should ask yourself those questions, requiring a firmer answer from yourself than "I love him." You don't count love in banknotes, do you? So take your love as a given, and go ahead with the factual queries.

You can't "rein him in" without knowing what length of reins you need!

OP your family are in dire financial straits. Interest-only mortgages are only a good business plan when prices are rising. And never for as long as 16 years!

You have liabilities, not assets - do you have any equity at all? That you have solid evidence of? It's starting to sound like you don't. I think it's likely that your family is in serious debt

I'm afraid your DH sounds like a terrible businessman and it's catching up with him, hence you're starting to feel concerned.

You sound like a very loving and trusting wife, but you need to get your family finances in order for everyone's sakes. Your DH is like, no is , an out of control gambler.

I've just gone back and re-read your OP and am even more

You're trying to downplay how bad this really is!

Your job pays for all the family expenditure including mortgage and bills! Does your DH have a job? Does he literally provide no income from this 'property empire'?! He has spent all your savings?!

Please put a stop to his selfish and irrational financial game-playing immediately.

Your husband's partner put in £100k 18 months ago, the same time that you were pushed into taking out a £25K loan for your ex's share.

Your husband's partner partner has had all of his £100k back. You still have the £25k loan in your name that your partner sprung on you and promised you would be paid back straight away.

So has your husband had a proportional share back which would have covered your loan? Where did it go? Why was paying off the loan not prioritised?

Your husband's partner could well be a millionaire this is because he has made sure he has got all his investment back while you are left with nothing in the bank.

He may well be a decent man but he can afford to be safe in the knowledge he is not down financially.

Your husband cannot say the same.

It is easy to be laid back and easy going when you don't have any responsibilities- you are taking on all your dhs responsibilities.

I am a dreamer- I wouldn't expect someone else to foot all my bills so I could be though

I am in turns staggered then concerned by your replies OP.
Having read your responses to the above posts I cant help but wonder if this is a) a wind-up to assess MN's responses b) tax evasion/fraudulent money management on the part of your OH (and by default yourself) or c) a rather naive couple mismanaging their finances to the nth degree.

Amazing.
I wish you well OP, and hope that the mire in which you seem to be knee high doesn't stink too much.

Is the OP anywhere now- or has she disappeared?
OP you have been given loads of excellent advice- are you taking note of any of it?

I think she's at work, Amelia. Got a hungry bank to feed ... KK, I'm looking forward to today's thoughts too.

And I thank you bubble and anyfucker for your tolerance and support. It just proves why mn is pointless. There are no shades of grey with you lot- just black and white like some kind of computer game.
I am not to blame for the problems of society or the economy. Neither my dh or I have missed a single mortgage payment.

Your palpable hatred at people who do not fit into your 'economically sensible' box is abhorrent.
Your speed at condemning a man and a relationahip you know so little about is irresponsible.
Its a good job I can see the funny side of your ridiculous comments.

OK so there has been some vitriol. But you do seem to be sidestepping OP.
Do you feel any further forward or do you still feel helpless?

You are right- you are not responsible for the economy but as an adult you are responsible - or shoulld be- for your own actions.

If you regard your marriage as a partnership the you should know what debts you have- in fact you ought to have a handle on all your finances- goes without saying.

It's a shame, OP, that you have read 'palpable hatred' into remarks that, for the most part, stem from genuine concern for you and your financial position.

Imagine if a friend came to you and said she had worked her whole life, paid all the household bills and mortgage, and that her husband had been playing the property market. She finds all her savings gone, £500-odd taken from her bank account and in debt (in HER name) to the tune of £25,000. furthermore, that when she gets her husband to agree to cost-saving decisions, he goes behind her back and orders the concrete anyway.

As a friend, what would YOU say to her?

We didn't walk into your kitchen spouting advice - you felt worried enough to post on an internet forum. You asked for advice. If you had wanted us all to say 'oh it's all fine, we all let our husbands use up all our savings and nick money from the bank and make fake promises to get us to sign up for £25K of debt' then perhaps you could have said so and saved us all a lot of time and effort?

^I do see that this is a house of cards- and can all go pear-shaped if something happens such as death/ illness. My husband tends to believe that such shit can happen to anyone and make their life shit- at least we may have some assets to try and sell.

I fully intend to get more info, and I will keep you all informed.^

I am listening to your comment- I am not sidestepping. I cannot resolve this complex stuff in a day.

balia- have you read some of the sneering comments on here???
Yours included- you have achoice whether to respond- there have been some great responses and I have clearly named those who have shown 'palpable hatred'

I'm not sneering - I'm actually quite worried for you.

But I guess it is much easier to get angry with a bunch of strangers and wrangle about who is sneering and who isn't than face up to what seems to be a serious problem.

Best of Luck.

I really think it would be wise to have a full breakdown of the income and outgoings of all the properties. I assume you must have this information in relation to the properties in your name in order to pay your taxes.

I assume your available equity is net of CGT.

I know people have built property portfolios on the basis of interest only mortgages in the past but as others have said that is in a rising market. You should look at the equity levels of those properties acquired more recently especially 2004-2007 when the market was still going up. Bear in mind that the values you see in estate agents are most definitely not what properties are actually selling for.

What was the £25K loan used for?

Have I missed something? You own FOUR houses between you bur are struggling financially?

The truth is hard to hear.

I was the first one in this thread, to tell you repeatedly, you need to see a solicitor and fa. The best advice you are gonna get on this thread.

You've side stepped, made excuses and tbh, made yourself look just as bad. Gone along with the good, now facing crap because you can't sell.

Sometimes the truth is harsh, which you in your head in the sand way, have mistook for sneering.

You dont seem to want practical help. Just to be patted on the head and be told it will all be ok if your mean nasty husband stops spending. You need to get a grip love.

Yes you have, crystalglasses. They're trying to sell four, but they (or their bank) own 25.
Yet the OP has to pay their mortgage and all the bills and her DH has to take money from her account and take loans in her name.
But even though she said she was worried, we are being hateful to point out that there's anything wrong with this picture or that she should find out the facts. Because her DH looks at the big picture and she would rather shut her eyes to it.