how can I reign him in?

[KlickKlackknobsac]

My dh is a nightmare.
If he has money it just slips through his fingers.
I have worked full time for last 9 years despite having 3dc. I pay mortgage, utility bills, food bills, SKY bill, dental costs, all clothes for kids etc etc.
If DH has money he buys a house or invests it- would rather do that than put money ion the bank. He is not money focused really- I think the houses are a game of Monopoly to him.

I also pay for holidays. My savings have now disappeared and I am starting to get worried.
18 months ago he took out a £25K loan in my name without my knowledge (I had to sign at last minute of course) fom joint account. Last month he took £570 from my account without asking or telling me. Today we discussed some building work and agreed we should leave it as we can't afford it at the mo- at 3.30pm the concrete lorry turns up!!!
What can I do to sort him out??

'Easy-going man' and 'complicated property empire' is a very bad combination, you know, OP? Also, if your DH really was easy-going, he wouldn't have a problem with showing you all the paperwork etc and letting you take some control. He sounds like a fantasist and a nightmare.

You need to put together a full statement of affairs and cashflow plan NOW. Your family's future is at risk.

I really think OP doesn't realise the shit she is in (pardon the language).

I have seen set ups like this go very, very badly wrong.

The tenants end up being evicted too - not nice.

Sometimes (not necessarily in this case TBF) the landlord takes out a residential mortgage rather than a buy-to-let - so the tenant ends up with bailiffs at the door (because the bank thinks the landlord lives in the property).

I feel sorry for the kids frankly. :(

A picture of a fur coat and no knickers would have been just as appropriate

SCOTT, <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=fur+coat+no+knickers&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1T4ADBF_en-GBGB263GB263&biw=1024&bih=512&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=qP0kEJPSMQ8vMM:&imgrefurl=www.facebook.com/pages/shes-abit-of-fur-coat-no-knickers/268332522278&docid=RI7CVZVIT4RdFM&imgurl=profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/41606_268332522278_6486258_n.jpg&w=200&h=169&ei=JjmnTvONDcTp8QPvx824Dw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=626&vpy=186&dur=234&hovh=135&hovw=160&tx=57&ty=63&sig=112559965356493624964&page=1&tbnh=135&tbnw=160&start=0&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this is just for you

OP, I actually feel bad you are getting a hard time

You are the victim of a finacially abusive man

But you are not listening

Making like an ostrich is going to destroy this comfortable life you currently have

because it is based on sand

Yep, that's exactly what I had in mind AF

the 6 acres of field was quite a nice touch too, was it not, WA ?

OP are you ok ?

have you taken anything on board from this thread

do you get quite what a precarious situation you are in ?

I would like to know why you are so convinced he isn't going to fuck off and leave you with all the shit to clear up, tbh

The 6 acres was a bit subliminal for me AF, but as you've pointed it out, I can see it now

OP, I agree with earlier posters that you could be in a precarious position. If it goes tits up, do you think he is the sort of man to do a runner to Bangland and leave you with all the mess?

You need to sit down with the paperwork and work out how much is being owed by whom to whom, what interest rate is being charged, how much rent is being paid, where any profits go, is the appropriate tax being paid, are accounts being filed etc etc. You need to add up all the debt in your name and see how this is being paid off.

These houses, are they jointly owned or are you just liable for the debt?

Does your DH have any records system and do you have access to it? Are you two a financial partnership, with the correct taxes etc paid, or are you being taken for a mug and are going to be left with banks and HMRC chasing after you?

You are paying all your familiy household bills - what does your DH do with the profits from all your properties, what does he consider to be his money?

I can't help but agree with all these posts, although I suspect he's a well meaning fool as opposed to selling you short. What you both have to realise is that you've not been clever or lucky, you've ridden a market wave and now that market wave is changing so you have to adapt with it. Trust me for every "successful dreamer" there is someone doing the books - whether themselves or a very trusted partner.

You want practical advice

1. Tell him you are reviewing your own pension needs, kids future education etc - if it helps a white lie that you've been given free financial advice with your job.
2. Build a spreadsheet - start simply

eg - Property 1 - bought in 19xx, at value Y, estimated current value z. Mortgage of X, current repayments Y, term of mortgage until 20ZZ, type of mortgage and when current offer runs out. Type of property - long term rent or short term sell. If rent - rental income and lease dates, if short term sell estimate value of work to be done. Fill in as much as you can - estimate where you don't know (although as a lot is in your name the companies will give it to you). This is going to take leg work and time don't give up! And at this stage blanks are likely but I'll come back to that.

1. What else do you have - pensions, own property, other debts eg cars, cards
2. Monthly outgoings and income - including what is paying off each loan.

As you know more, make the spreadsheet more detailed, update it every time something changes and go back to it to plan. Never never sign another piece of paper until you've checked back to the master plan to see where the money is coming from and where its going.

Sit down with him and show him what you've done. Expect his pride to want to artificially increase or decrease some figures, use that to start the discussion - "well are you sure?" "what about this blank, shall we get an agent to give us a free estimate?".

This is not a one of discussion but YOU need to keep pushing it and I suspect he'll resist - for one thing his pride is going to be bruised and for another he may already suspect the house of cards is collapsing but just not know how to get out of it - ie continue to gamble, rather than fold and back off. BTW it could be he knows he can't get credit anywhere hence pushing more on to you - in which case he has to be really stupid not to know this is all about to collapse.

You need to get a plan to get the finances under control - and YOU need to be the one to do it as he won't regardless of whether he should. Without being cruel I suspect you've been kind of OK to leave it to him while things were looking alright and the money was flowing but at least know you've woken up to the problem, and he needs to as well.

You know what you may be OK, you may be able to turn this round -- but only if you treat it like a business and have a long term plan (which could involve selling somethings at a loss short term because they are making things worse). I really hope so but I suspect you won't know the answer for a long time to come

I think you are being financially abused, too, OP. I'm not being bedazzled by your portfolio. I've taken risks with borrowed money because I knew I could make it work - and I could until I developed a long-term illness, when everything blew up in my face. Have you thought about unforeseen disasters? How much insurance do you have, what is it for, and do you know whether the premiums are up-to-date? What exclusions are there? (The exclusions got me, like most other people.) I'm now one of the can't-pay-a-£10-bill brigade. It's not so bad, but it's a hard fall and much faster than you seem to think.

A quarter of the way through your thread I muttered "she's a fool." I read on, hoping to find you had got some common sense as well as brains, but no - your loyal respondents are trying to switch on the light for you and you keep going "But it's so cosy in the dark!"

I think you have been suckered. Here's why:

My savings have now disappeared ... he took out a £25K loan in my name without my knowledge ... Last month he took £570 from my account without asking or telling me.
He ... has been proven to be quite dishonest about all matters monetary ... He approaches it all in generalisations and maybes

He IS dishonest. No doubt about that. He conned you over the loan, stole from your account and lied about where the money was going. Do you not see that, as he is this dishonest at home - with you, whom he knows he can trust - he's most likely a great deal more dishonest in the wider world?

he has a habit of saying - just sign that - ... I honestly challenge anyone to say no to him.
If he was in a room with you, he would convince you all

I very much doubt he'd convince us all, and am certain we'd easily say no to him. Why? Because we've all been conned and lied to by charming men. It's an expensive lesson, of which we're trying to give you the shorter and less painful version. He's a bullshitter.

You are talking like a sucker ...

things keep changing. I may know today what the facts are, but give it a week and there's a new deal gone down ...

... He knows a safe mark when he fucks sees one, and he keeps you on a back foot so you won't know which way is up. That way you won't ask too many questions.

Can you imagine taking a dh with whom you have a functioning relationship to a solicitors (cos he has to be there as he has all the facts) to get this sorted. That is relationship destroying stuff.

Requiring to know the legal & financial ins and outs of your family business, which is funded by you, would destroy your relationship??!

Have you seen what you're saying there?

he has to be there as he has all the facts
The thing thats wrong is that I do not have all the facts.

Indeed. The thing thats wrong is that you do not have all the facts.

My advice is as follows: Engage a financial reference agency to perform a full, detailed and personal check on all your H's dealings, in all the businesses and any you might not know about, his personal affairs, all his investments and liabilities of any type and any overseas interests. Ask them also to look into any other names he may have used/be using, and give them any likely candidates such as middle names, mother's maiden name, whatever.

This goes against the grain of all your hero-worship, I know. Plus, your brain has been (deliberately) scrambled to the extent you feel disloyal for wanting the facts. Your life is at stake here. Well, you'll live all right at can't-pay-£10 level, but please trust us when we say the fall is undesirable.

If your outcome is as you expect, then the only change is that you'll now have your facts and be able to proceed with confidence. If it isn't - well, you'll have your facts and your anger will direct you from there!

I'm sure you feel we're all scaremongering. So ask yourself why you're scared, then do your thorough checks. Nothing to lose but the fees, and I reckon you'll make that back in a heartbeat once you know the numbers.

Confiscate all his accounts while your agency investigates. It'll keep the fees down (and him in check.)

One last thing: Do have an in-depth talk, privately with his partner. Has he taken H under his wing to keep closer tabs on his money, by any chance?

Oops, not quite the last thing - sorry.
How come you're not audited?

Just lost long post argh

garlic partner got all his money back already- so not keeping tabs for that. He is a decent man and really helpful.

seorae thanks for some positivity at the end of your post!

Have spoken to dh. All mortgages are interest only. This is normal for investors. All houses to be sold well before they could be paid off. Dh agrees this is not ideal for houses we have already had for 16yrs. But dh disagrees that interest only mortgages are an indication of financial mismanagement. Most are fixed rate, so will not be instantly affected by interest rates rises as some of you have suggested.

I do see that this is a house of cards- and can all go pear-shaped if something happens such as death/ illness. My husband tends to believe that such shit can happen to anyone and make their life shit- at least we may have some assets to try and sell.

I fully intend to get more info, and I will keep you all informed.

And I do not see what is wrong in trusting my dh. And why when I say that do I get flamed? I am not blind or stupid. I have 24 years of history with this man. I know he is a good man. He has done some reprehensible things- but it is not financial abuse. I have to take some responsibility for allowing him to do it too. He is really not about to leave me- I find it so sad that so many of you think that is likely and that comment-
He knows a safe mark when he fucks sees one, and he keeps you on a back foot so you won't know which way is up. That way you won't ask too many questions.
Is just ridiculous- this is not Spooks!! Plus we are talking about a long term committed relationship between two people who have children. Yes he may have been reckless, we both have, but that comment is way off mark and completely overdramatic.

As I say, I welcome your comments- I am not dismissing them all at all- just highlighting the problems therein. Any moe ideas- gratefully received.

btw whoever said this is boasting is having a laugh!! About what exactly?

Surely if she takes sole control over the finances that would be "financial abuse" no??

Heaven Forbid if a woman should take control of her life...

No it would be a financial rescue from a person who has lost all sense of perspective IMO

Tuesday's prediction. In 5 years time after the housing market has slumped further. More cautious banks, loss of jobs, houses actually becoming affordable again, without stupid levels if debt.

Then op will become one of the £10 brigade. The housing market and it's debt is the sole reason the country is in this mess. Loads rode the wave. Equally now lots are finding the houses aren't selling, for reasons above, the equity is fast dropping.

People are still trying to sell for boom time prices, they aren't shifting. People have got wise to it.

So in 5 years op will be here, banging her head against a wall. Warning other women not to do what she did.

Is it Tuesday, Wednesday even. Half term and no routine.

no, she won't be here

she won't be able to afford broadband

I would be very worried in your situation OP. I would ask to see the accounts and would be following the trail very closely if I were you.

And I do not see what is wrong in trusting my dh. And why when I say that do I get flamed? I am not blind or stupid. I have 24 years of history with this man. I know he is a good man

• but he has deceived you; how can you say he is a good man?

I know af. Thing is op. You don't seem to understand this horse has bolted?

You have tens of assets, I'd say liabilities. Which despite wheeler dealers and estate agents trying to prove otherwise. Are falling by the day. Banks lending less, jobs lost, bigger deposits. All these things are part of the boom and bust cycle which will see houses fall to much more lower levels over the coming years. No buyers, with no money = no house sale.

It's gonna be a long time before the market is ever near the naughties boom, if it ever does get there.

So currently just keeping your head above water, and you have tens of liabilities, realistically losing value, that you can't cash in. Whilst still owing all the capital on it.

You are only just solvent really.

The chickens are coming home to roost for all sorts of people who thought they'd make their millions on the property market.
Sounds to me OP like you were perfectly happy to let all this happen whilst times were good, and are now blaming your DH now it's all going tits up.

What they said ^^

OP - no one on here actually knows your financial circumstances. They don;t know the value of your assets and liabilities. They don't understand the nature of your relationship with your husband.

The important part is the YOU need to assess the above!

You need to be an active partcipant in what he is doing and vice versa. You ought to have dfull knowledge of the investments and liabilities you have taken on as a couple and family. You ought to be able to monitor the value of those investments and you ought to be able to veto any which you do not agree with.

Its very easy for one party to kind of "check out" of the fiancial siode and leave it to the other person. Or to just deal with the biots you deal with and leave him to deal with his.

Sometimes that works fine when you both have the same attitude to money and the same ability to manage it. When it is NOT fine is when one of you is not capable or willing to agree to the "ground rules" e.g joint decisions on anything over a certain limit, nothing too risky, no debt over X% of the value of the asset etc.

Your home is like a small business. cash comes in, cash goes out. You buy assets - some are income producing, some require cash top ups, some are a drain on the finances. If you are having issues - and you are - you need to check back in and insist that everything is transparent and you have access to everything.

if your husband is not willing to act jointly in this way then he is not being reasonable and I think it would be reasoanable for YOU to take steps to protect yourself financially.

It is actually in your interests to hold assets in separate names as should he go bankrupt anything held solely by you will be secured.

Might I suggest a trip to an independent financial adviser (together preferably). Also if you are good with excel it is really helpful to ba able to list your assets and liabilities and your monthly cash flows in one file so you can have a snapshot picture of everything which can be updated on a regular basis. There are many "home accounting" courses you could go on if you don;t feel capable of this which are not expensive but very helpful.

Personally I work in finance so in our marriage it is me who takes care of all matters financial. My husband simply doesn;t have the mathmatical / accounting capability to manage the complex cash flows of our family "business". He has also proven himself to be utterly useless with money (hence the house in negative equity and large personal loan we are still paying off from before he met me). This works for us.

You need to find out what works for you, but also need to AGREE the solution with your husband so neither of you feels either at risk or resentful.