how can I reign him in?

[KlickKlackknobsac]

My dh is a nightmare.
If he has money it just slips through his fingers.
I have worked full time for last 9 years despite having 3dc. I pay mortgage, utility bills, food bills, SKY bill, dental costs, all clothes for kids etc etc.
If DH has money he buys a house or invests it- would rather do that than put money ion the bank. He is not money focused really- I think the houses are a game of Monopoly to him.

I also pay for holidays. My savings have now disappeared and I am starting to get worried.
18 months ago he took out a £25K loan in my name without my knowledge (I had to sign at last minute of course) fom joint account. Last month he took £570 from my account without asking or telling me. Today we discussed some building work and agreed we should leave it as we can't afford it at the mo- at 3.30pm the concrete lorry turns up!!!
What can I do to sort him out??

My impression so far is that he constantly re-invests, looking towards the pot of gold at the end of a very long rainbow. My concern is that it doesn't seem to have occurred to him or KK that his family needs him to contribute (rather than the other way around!) and he uses KK as a free bank. Failing to accept that your business model doesn't work, and needs to be changed, is irrational. Conning money out of your loved ones is despicable. I really hope OP will stick at this until she finds out for sure where all the money is, then does something extremely solid about rectifying it - now and for the future.

You shouldn't need to rein him in. Your husband shouldn't have put you in this position.

I think that might be underlying the comments and assumptions that people are making

klick I have just been going through statements to see who's been contributing and how much, it takes bloody ages putting stuff into a spreadsheet and checking it

However, nothing beats doing a spreadsheet for understanding what's going on financially, as you have to think very specifically about the figures and how they relate to each other. Even if you think you understand in a general way, it's amazing how the process of encoding financial data deepens your understanding.

A piece of lined paper can work almost as well, for those who are not spreadsheet savvy

thanks noseinbook
And nice idea inertia but not sure how to get dh to do what you suggest. It is difficult enough discussing all this stuff at all. The idea about going to bank/ solicitor with dh is impossible. Just no idea how to broach it at all.
This is having a huge affect on us. Dh has described himself as 'suicidal' today as I have been making him feel so 'depressed' by suggesting that we may 'go bankrupt'. Please do not give it the 'financial abuse/ emotional abuse' stuff again as I do not want our relationship to end over all this.
I want to rein him in- sort out the finances and carry on as before. Sell what can be sold for reasonable profit and move on. I am certain this can be done (one house is a our old family home and worth almost double the mortgage value- bought 12 years ago).
I have started a spreadsheet but its not finished.
He is kicking off a bit as I am asking so many questions- I think this is normal as I have been so accepting of things before (as you have all seen) so it is a big change.
But things are really miserable.
I know some of you will feel I ought to leave him, but it would make me so unhappy you have no idea. I think he is a fool, not a crook.
I do feel vey neglected though and do not know how to communicate this to him. I pay most of the bills (see op) work a demanding job, do most of housework, cooking, food shopping, and so on. Dh is really inconsiderate especially in communicating with me about stuff he does. Thing is I know he loves me, but I am sure in common with many men he is just wrapped up in himself. He suffered a close bereavement in the summer which has definitely affected him too. He always says the one thing he wants to do is make me happy and rich, and I know he is genuinely frustrated that he hasn't managed that yet.
There must be loads of you who can relate to that. My dh has just risked too much to try and achieve it (and I am sure he sees this as a bit romantic- like he loves me more and so has tried even harder) and it has now backfired as I just want security.
[sun rising on a not-so-brave new world emoticon]

Threatening suicide because you have jumped up to be counted. Is classic emotional blackmail. Which would tie in with what others have said. Re abuse.

You post here with information, pick the bits you like and try to dictate the responses. You can't do that. A spade is a spade.

I'm starting to get it now. Is it really that hard to hear the truth, you know what it is, but it can't be named. Voldermort style.

I am not trying to dictate answers- just asking people to be gentle in their replies- this is incredibly hard.
I am not sure what the truth is..... if we are saying he is being abusive then yes, that is a difficult pill to swallow.
But I am cogitating on it.
He is on the edge, has been for a while (esp since the bereavement) and he has extreme highs and lows at times. He is also very supportive, fun and loving in other ways. He can be a bully though-is vey quick to threaten if I am not listening well enough.

carry on as before?

before what?

was there a time when your dh was transparent and contributed financially and practically then?

threaten what?

I have recently asked my feckless partner to leave for much the same things you are complaining about. I'd had enough of his dishonesty and irresponsible behaviour. For me and my kids, I have made the right choice. I still love him but not as much as I love me and my kids.

I have gotta be honest op, I was harsh earlier for which I apologise. I wasn't sure of the people calling abuse. As it did seem to me to be a case of 6 of one. You know whilst times were good and that.

However, your last post just screams emotional and financial abuse. It really does.

Except he was never ever aggressive.

I need to think about that bubblegumpop Feeling really sad for my kids

The fact that he is responding in this way to your perfectly reasonable questions suggests to me that there is something very badly awry with your dh's buy to let empire - and he knows it. Sounds like a terrible situation, and he is probably feeling very scared and cornered but that is no excuse to bully you, which IMHO is what he is doing.

I'd also be looking at the angle, he has got you all into more crap than he is letting on.

Setting aside any issues of abuse, you need to get your financial situation pinned down, otherwise you can't tell what to do to improve things. Maybe he wanted to be all wonderful and all providing (his dream of his manhood), but I (and, I imagine, you) would prefer a partnership where you faced your problems together. He will have to be man enough to share with you exactly what the position is.

I'm feeling really sad and a bit scared for you, KK. I'm not even a tiny bit surprised by your last few posts but I think it was brave of you to write them. You deserve facts, respect and an equally-loving, mutually-supportive relationship. Possibly you can have this with DH but you're going to have to stay as steady as a rock in the face of assorted emotional tactics.

I think you will be able to do it - because your future, and your children's security, is at stake. Good luck and keep posting: everyone here really is on your side!

As someone who has not criticised but has tried to help you undertand your circumstances I'm getting very confused about the way things are going.

Mainly because most of you posts right up to 8am this morning have been along the lines of H has reasured things are OK etc - yet by 8om this evening he is threatening suicide.

What is going on here?

if he's reacting in this way to a reasonable enquiry from his wife as to the bouyancy of the marital finances there is something very wrong here. and I doubt you will uncover exactly what exposure you currently have until you sit down and work it all out for yourself.

If the houses are long-standing acquisitions he should have made a lot of money during the good times - which it appears he has, but reinvested it in more acquisitions.

If the houses are recent acquisitions then I would be very concerned regardless of how cheap he teel you he bought them. These are the interest only properties which, if they have to be sold will attract capital gains (though unlikely) as well as estate agent's fees - all to recoup possibly less than he paid for them.

And one priority should be tackling the non-paying tenant. If your DH was really competent and serious about managing his portfolio he would have dealt with this already.

The last house I would sell or remortgage is the family home. This is your place of last retreat if it does all go pear-shaped.

Take control.

the bouyancy of the marital finances - are only marital in one direction: when he needs a cash injection from his dear wife. KK provides all the family's needs from her salary and exhausted savings.

He sounds like a small child having a meltdown over his mum's refusal to buy him a new Transformer ...

So now the shit has hit the fan.
He has left. I asked him some more this morning, we clashed.
He knows we are in shit, knows it needs sorting but can't 'magically make a house sell' and he is sick 'of my nagging about it- I will never be happy' he says 'if you think this is bad just wait and see what I do next' ' he has gone to non-paying tenant and says he is mostly to blame, he is sick of keeping his anger inside and he will take it out on the tenant- 'I fancy some time in prison'. He also says 'I want to live in a field on nothing'. I had to beg him to calm down and not say anything to kids. I thought he was going to punch the crap out of me at one point. He is absolutely livid. I do not know what he will do. He says money is not important and we should stop worrying about it. He also said he is just going to sell all houses, leave me with mine and see where we are financially then. As in 'you can sort your own fucking houses yourself- good luck with that'
We have a long standing event tonight involving kids that he says he will come back for, but that he will tell them he is leaving in the morning.
This is unchartered territory for me. I have never seen him so angry- and especially violent. I was distraught- mainly because I don't want him to do anything silly. I am calmer now. Advice?

He is starting to panic because there is no money. It's tied up in property which is now worth less than he paid for it. If he sells he will make a loss and owe the bank thousands and thousands.

The only way to make money here is to make sure all the properties are let, hopefully generating an income which will meet the loan repayments, and wait for the property market to recover.

This means that he will not be bringing in any income for a long while, possibly years. But eventually, he may be able to sell, repay the loans, CGT, agents fees and possibly have something left over.

He does not want to tell you because he has messed up big time and is too proud to admit it. He refuses to talk about it and in a desparate attempt to stop you asking, he has threatened suicide.

What he is telling you is that he would literally rather die than face up to his financial situation. Which is pathetic but not unheard of in men who are brought up to believe that they should 'provide' for the family.

In the meantime OP you will have to provide all the income for the family, to pay all the bills and make up any shortfall needed to pay the loans. Do not, under any circumstances, take out any more loans in your name. Whatever happens, do not put your own home at risk.

Be prepared for him to try and get you to authorise more loans for more amazing opportunities to lose make money.

Finally, instead of trying to get rich quick through gambling with your money (which is what he is doing, there are not guarantees in investments) how about he just gets himself a regular job with a regular wage and makes a monthly financial contribution to the family.

Aaargh! Do not worry if anyone says they told you so, in these situations you can't see the wood for the trees - you are too busy working, looking after DCs and managing the money and just hoping things are working out re the houses cos that's all the time you have to devote to that aspect. (This is what it's been like for me anyway - mine doesn't even work but kept thinking he must be doing something)

x post

First of all, it had to come to this. He has backed himself into a corner and is being defensive and bullying because he cannot take responsibility for his own actions.

Because of his violent behaviour I would advise that you take the children elsewhere this evening and stay away from him.

He will try to bully and frighten you into doing what he wants. Be firm. Be safe. Keep posting, we will help you.

His immediate reaction is to look after himself. All his comments are about what he will do for himself. He is saying that he couldn't give a toss about you and the kids. In fact, he hopes he leaves you struggling.

This could all be hot air, of course, but it's very telling that these are his true colours.

I think I would tell the children that dad is very upset about something to do with money. He is angry at the moment but hopefully he will calm down. I would say that no-one had done anything wrong, no-one is to blame and if he says angry things to them they should just remember that it's not their fault and everyone will be ok. I think they need to be prepared in case he does say something to them.

Thanks ScareyFairenuff

You asking questions means he can no longer hide things.

On the plus side you are entitled to half of everything he owns, so he can sell what he likes but has to make sure you get half of any profit.

YOu already look after yourself and yoru children you are not going to be worse off.