how can I reign him in?

[KlickKlackknobsac]

My dh is a nightmare.
If he has money it just slips through his fingers.
I have worked full time for last 9 years despite having 3dc. I pay mortgage, utility bills, food bills, SKY bill, dental costs, all clothes for kids etc etc.
If DH has money he buys a house or invests it- would rather do that than put money ion the bank. He is not money focused really- I think the houses are a game of Monopoly to him.

I also pay for holidays. My savings have now disappeared and I am starting to get worried.
18 months ago he took out a £25K loan in my name without my knowledge (I had to sign at last minute of course) fom joint account. Last month he took £570 from my account without asking or telling me. Today we discussed some building work and agreed we should leave it as we can't afford it at the mo- at 3.30pm the concrete lorry turns up!!!
What can I do to sort him out??

You have a minimum by your understanding of £500k equity in 25 properties. That is on average £20k each (I know some will be higher and some lower) but you cannot reduce the selling price on a couple to clear your £25k loan and have used up all your savings!!

If you have as much as £2 mil equity you have on average £80k per property. You could knock £30k off one of them, clear your loan and still make profit.

Do you know what type of mortgages you have on the properties in your name at least?

Something completely wrong here.

Xales the ones in my name are interest only.
The thing thats wrong is that I do not have all the facts.
Xales- we have 4 houses on the market- I cannot get him to put more on- and they are not selling atm.

He won't put more on as market is so bad.

KK, honestly, I doubt HE has all the facts clear in his head. All you can do is protect your own interests in as far as you're able.

See an independent Financial Advisor - tomorrow!

oh dear dear me

they are all interest-only mortgages ?

he has been financially very stupid, and so have you for going along with it

it has to be damage limitation now

take control and don't listen to any more bullshit

I agree lostmymind I don't think he does have all facts clear at all.
He does things intuitively. One hopeful thing is his partner who is very steady and experienced. He owns many student rentals in nearby Uni City (has done since 60's) and he is trying to take dh under his wing a bit more recently. This bloke is in his 70's and a good man (plus a millionaire).

bloody hell...so you are also relying on another unknown quantity

many people are a "millionaire" (on paper)

so sorry, love

you must convince your husband to take independent financial advice with you so you can be made aware of the full facts

Crikey interest only mortgages! so really you couldn't afford the houses in the first place?

You need to make it clear to this man that basically you have no money. You cannot eat bricks and mortar. He clearly cannot afford to continue to do what he is doing without making you suffer. He has a choice of selling one of the other houses for less that he had hoped or you and your children potentially starving.

If someone took nearly £600 out of my account without even letting me know then I would have a choice of an expensive overdraft or not being able to afford food or petrol for 6 weeks or more!

You also need to learn to say no. He is being considerate of everyone else but you and emotionally blackmailing you into signing loans. Where is the good husband in that?

I have to say I am with FabbyChic I could not be with anyone who lets their partner slog their guts out and pay for everything no matter how nice the standard of living while they play with their money until their partner is completely broke. My mum's H continually runs up debts and bills and I see what it does to her

Good luck

If you are buying to sell quickly - ie. at the latest before your "honeymoon" rate on the mortgage expires (usually one year for the best rates, three years for a good rate, five years for an okay rate - most developers go for 1 year if quick redecoratation type work is required, 3 years if more work required - eg. factoring in time for planning permission to be acquired) then interest only is a perfectly reasonable/acceptable financial decision.

If you're buying with a view to rent out over a long period (which I assume you have on the properties you've owned for 10+ years) then you'd be bonkers not to do a capital repayment mortgage. Some developers will buy a long term investment with an interest only mortgage for the first 3 years and then (when the honeymoon interest rate expires) will switch to a capital repayment mortgage. The idea is to protect yourself. Eg. in case the property market tanks. Then you know you will still have an asset once the mortgage is repaid as property will always be worth something (assuming you haven't bought a property next to a cliff which is crumbling away into the sea...!) Also, a capital repayment mortgage isn't that much more than an interest only mortgage - and after three years I would expect the rent to have increased and the rental income should easily cover the (slightly) higher capital mortgage repayments. That assumes you've made a wise purchase in the first place, and the more you post, the more I wonder whether this is the case?

I also worry that so much of this is in your name and yet you know so little about it.

I mean seriously, if the worst happened and your DH was hit by the proverbial bus... who would manage the properties? Seriously? Do you know which accounts the rent comes into and the mortgage payments go out of? Do you know if your DH is transferring money from one account to another every month to make sure all the mortgage payments clear? What if rent goes into one account but the mortgage payments go out of another? This is quite likely if he has some properties owned with business partners - they'd have one account together, and the account(s) for the properties in both your names would be separate. Many banks will offer a good mortgage rate if you have a bank account with them - so he could easily have accounts with several institutions for this (very valid and sensible to get a good rate IMO) reason.

Sorry for the long post but I want you to think about this from a practical perspective - sadly I don't think you realise how very wrong this is on the emotional/relationship side of things.

OMG - cross posts

The interest only mortgages are in your name

That is because his business partners understand the value of capital repayment.

One of the previous posters said she thought your DH was getting ready to do the dirty and leave you with lots of assets in his name and debts in yours. I was a bit about her suggestion at the time but now I'm wondering if she was right...

Bloody hell OP - this really isn't good. :(

Hmmm OP your H reminds me of an ex-friend who was like this, but not with houses. I tried to help him out but the one thing he would never do was commit to paper exactly what was owed to who and what the full situation was. He ended up spending a year as a guest of HM for fraud.

Interest only mortgages - rates go up - you are stuffed.

However you talk about a 'deal going down every week'. Does that mean he has a good relationship with the banks or with partners? If with the banks it probably is not as bad as it seems unless he is not telling them everything.

And 20k equity per property is meaningless if that is the case - it'll probably cost that much to sell.

I suggest you a) see a solicitor independently with what you do know b) force your lovely H to write down exactly what he knows and verify what you can c) take it to said solicitor or an accountant d) be prepared for simpler living about 3 years into the future

...or for your H to fuck off to Bangland when the shit hits the fan

sorry, OP, I see this on your horizon

APF - that's what I'm starting to think :(

I'd be very worried.

It wouldn't take a lot for your property empire based on interest only mortgages to come crashing down.

Interst rates are historically low and the rents you are receiving should more than cover the mortgage payements. But some of us remember the late 1980's when they peaked at 15%. On Black Wednesday they rose from 12% to 15% in one day.

Have you considered how much your interst only mortgage payments would be at 15% or even half of that. At what level of interest rate does your rents start to be outweighed by your mortgage payments?

You probably think it's unlikely that they would reach those levels again and you're probably safe in assuming that if they do rise they will do so gradually. However when they do start to rise (as they must) you'll be just another Buy to let landlord caught in the stampede of those desperate to sell because the rents are exceeded by the mortgage payments.

You've been just as irresponsible as your DH. These debts are in your name - not his. If interest rates rise and house prices fall then you will be in negative equity forking out money to meet the shortfall in your tenants rent or being forced to sell at a loss.

There are people in this world who are risk-takers and there are those who are cautious, weigh up the risks before they take on what could be life-changing committments, and have an exit strategy. You've just sailed along in your DH's wake hoping, as he tells you, everything will be OK. But we are in uncharted waters in terms of the banking crisis, Euro crisis etc. No one can predict how thiings will pan out over the next decade. You could be millionaires - I doubt it.

I don't know how you rein in your husband but you should start by reining yourself in and having enough savings to extract yourself and your DC from your DH's affairs if it all goes belly up - because from what you've said here, he has no Plan B if his Ponzi scheme hits the buffers.

I have a strange feeling that this is a wind-up by some buy-to-let landlords having a laugh at our reactions to this.

Your husband is a thief.

But you love him, so you going to let him keep stealing from you and your children.

Have fun with that. I'm sure the kids will.

Not a wind up.
And thank you for the kind message Tails
DH not about to go to Bangland.
I said that I think mortgages are interest only- yes- its bad that I am not sure about those in my name.
He is not fraudulent.
He is a dreamer.
Thankshevak for penultimate post esp- I know about what bank accounts he has and I know where all paperwork is. As you say rates are historically low- the current financial situation could hit us all V badly. I do not know where his money goes each month- that really is a mystery. He just loses it- see original post!!
Yes I may have been irresponsible in trusting my dh.
I do not know why a solicitor or financial adviser is considered the answer. This situation is hugely complicated. I cannot achieve anything there unless he comes too and is willing to discuss things. He will not do that- he is proud.

Does he see the concerns that you have?

"proud" does not cut it

you are being a fool

Agree with AF

So you can't fix it, solicitors and financial advisers can't fix it and your DH won't fix it.
Why bother to ask for advice only to reject all of it?

Unless it's just stealth boasting.
What are you hoping for?a fairy godmother?

I didn't want to, but I cannot help but post this now...

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=worlds+tiniest+violin&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1T4ADBF_en-GBGB263GB263&biw=1024&bih=512&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=9_Nr3IwFq3-6VM:&imgrefurl=blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/worlds_tiniest/&docid=j74GYVUWT_6SNM&imgurl=blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/EiG4DEBVenvq4meyY17CxWJ6o1_400.jpg&w=320&h=240&ei=xzKnTvjkGsSVswbm_8HGDQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=94&sig=112559965356493624964&page=1&tbnh=128&tbnw=169&start=0&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0&tx=117&ty=81" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this is for you OP

FWIW OP, I understand that seeing a solicitor/financial advisor can't help when you don't seem to know anything about anything. If you know as much as possible, a good solicitor/financial advisor should have some idea of how your DH is setting things up and operating, and they would therefore be in a better position to advise you about your situation.

You need to see your DH's credit cards and bank statements. Tell him you will want him to justify all his cash withdrawals also (eg. what did you spend that £100 on that you withdrew on the 15th because you withdrew another £100 on the 17th...) Especially compare this to the "hand to mouth" existence you are living on to keep food on the table.

If I were in your shoes I would seriously consider leaving - if only to disentagle myself legally and financially from this frigging lunatic him.

I really do think your financial situation is very precarious. As WetAugust says - increasing interest rates will kill off your DH's business (as it is currently set up). Frankly, interest rates can only going one way at the moment (though we don't know exactly when they'll start to rise).

I would be completely horrified if any of my family/friends were in your position and I'd be doing everything in my power to extricate them from the situation.

I'm really surprised you're not angrier with your DH. It reminds me of other threads on this board where the women have been so brainwashed they don't realise how badly their DH/DP is behaving :(

Please note that opinion here is unanimous - we all believe your DH is behaving unreasonably with regard to your finances.

I think you're actually being rather flippant about this with your DH is not going to do x, y, z etc.

I agree, a financial advisor is not the answer and neither is a solicitor. The only person who is going to give you a full disclosure of your marital finances is your DH.

But you say this won't work and that won't work and he just sails gaily on.....

If you were serious about understanding your full exposure to any potential downturn you would find a way of getting him to tell you. Perhaps he needs to be shocked into realising that your his financial partner. Tell him you are going up your job and you should get his full attention for just long enough.

However, as you say you have full access to the bank accounts etc - do the Math yourself.

No, I think you get a some frisson of excitement pretending you are being manipulated by this unstoppable wheeler-dealer property wizard DH who has provided a trophy house etc, and is in every way just perfect.

And if he's using some old guy who got his portfolio back in the 60s as a role model then he's playing very dangrously as those properties were probably bought for a song, paid off decades ago and are now just cash-generating machines. Things have changed.

Oh, APF I wish I could find that funny. I really think the OP's house of cards will come crashing down around her ears sooner than any of us could imagine. :(