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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

how can I reign him in?

231 replies

KlickKlackknobsac · 25/10/2011 17:54

My dh is a nightmare.
If he has money it just slips through his fingers.
I have worked full time for last 9 years despite having 3dc. I pay mortgage, utility bills, food bills, SKY bill, dental costs, all clothes for kids etc etc.
If DH has money he buys a house or invests it- would rather do that than put money ion the bank. He is not money focused really- I think the houses are a game of Monopoly to him.

I also pay for holidays. My savings have now disappeared and I am starting to get worried.
18 months ago he took out a £25K loan in my name without my knowledge (I had to sign at last minute of course) fom joint account. Last month he took £570 from my account without asking or telling me. Today we discussed some building work and agreed we should leave it as we can't afford it at the mo- at 3.30pm the concrete lorry turns up!!!
What can I do to sort him out??

OP posts:
Wooooooooooooooppity · 25/10/2011 20:10

Well said Herscaryness.

OP have you sat down with your DH and told him that this insecurity is making you unhappy and in order not to be unhappy, you need to know every detail of your finances, otherwise you will be anxious? When you are in a partnership with someone, it is simply not valid to keep financial information from them, which could seriously affect them, IMO. Your DH doesn't seem to understand that basic principle and that is very worrying.

Original poster
KlickKlackknobsac · 25/10/2011 20:11

Well, appropriate for your previous post!
Lots of great ideas confirming what I know I have to do. But also confirms what nearly everyone who I talk to about this thinks (and that is very few people) that surely all must be OK, just sell something, etc etc. And hardly anyone knows the full truth cos their response at just a biot of info means they can't be told the rest of it. Like its 25 houses not 4. I know, tell me about it....

OP posts:
pink4ever · 25/10/2011 20:12
Hmm
Original poster
KlickKlackknobsac · 25/10/2011 20:13

Wooooooppity yes I have- the trouble is, things keep changing. I may know today what the facts are, but give it a week and there's a new deal gone down. He does know how I feel, but really does not understand it- as he is very easy-going. He also knows I am very resiliant- have put up with this a long time.

OP posts:
HeresTheScaryThingBooyhoo · 25/10/2011 20:20

apologies for snapping earlier i had just been back from the bank lodging all the coins i could find in the house only to find that i still didn't have enough and the bank wouldn't even extend the OD by £10 so i was pissed off.

glad i posted though as i hadn't thought of cancellin the DD. not sure if i have enough time but will try. thank you.

hevak · 25/10/2011 20:25

Okay, I have a DP who sometimes gets an idea in his head and just runs with it... sometimes forgetting to tell me, even when it concerns both of us!

I'm assuming (being v v generous to your H's motives here) that your DH is a bit like this? He has a 'brilliant' idea/opportunity and grasps it with both hands, doing whatever is necessary (in your case racking up loads of unsustainable debt) and you're left going Shock Shock Shock when you find out about it.

I think you need to sit down with your DH and have a full and frank conversation with him. It might help if he 'found' you crying at the kitchen table with the household bills in front of you one night. I don't usually advocate emotional blackmail but if your DH is too thick or uneducated or just a fucking arsehole caught up in his own plans he may truly not realise how much it is worrying you - expecially if it has gone on for years.

Out of interest - do any of his business partners know how shit his (and your) financial situation is? If one of them finds out, it could have devastating consequences for you. They may decide to get out of any association with your DH and force a sale. If you cannot buy the partner out (which I'm assuming you can't) and are forced to sell at a loss... well, I can't see that turning out well. If one partner finds out, chances are the others will too and if they all force a sale... then you're really up the proverbial creek. I have seen this situation happen (through my job) and believe me - it ain't pretty.

Original poster
KlickKlackknobsac · 25/10/2011 20:34

Thanks Hevak he got £100K input from the main partner 18 months ago and that partner has had all his money back, plus the partner has 50% rights to both some barns we own and the land that we hope to get planning permission on- partner is V happy. You see dh is pretty good in many ways. He just does not prioritse money for the family (cos I earn a good amount) and really does not mind if he has nothing in the bank (but I do). He has no other debts beyond what I have posted previously. But seems unable to convert it into money for us now, or to stop 'investing'.

OP posts:
Smum99 · 25/10/2011 20:35

I'm not surprised you are worried and I do think your dh should take you seriously - anything else is patronising. Property has been a reasonable capital investment in the last few years BUT that has changed. If you have mostly BTLs with good rental income you should be fine but you need to get a handle on the finances and he needs to be open with you - I think if he is being evasive then it could be a warning sign that he also knows everything isn't going well. Maybe if you get a true view of the finances you will be less worried. If you have owned the properties for years it is possible you are in a good situation.

What is your dh's objective with all these houses?? To make xy amount of money or does he do it for the thrill.

I wouldn't feel happy if my dh was evasive on money - the liability is joint so you can't ignore the finances.

moneysavingexpert site might be useful for you

susiedaisy · 25/10/2011 20:47

Bottom line is he doesn't respect you very much I think you could win the lottery and he would still fritter it away regardless of how you feltSad don't have anything else to add that hasn't already been said, but tbh I think you are fighting a losing battle with him!

ameliagrey · 25/10/2011 20:51

Does your DH have any other work/income to fund all these houses- or are they the means of providing for you?

I wonder what has gone wrong?

Rents are higher now than ever, interest rates lower- so why the problem?

he sounds as if he has played the market and played it badly.

You need to see a financial expert.

And as others have said, it's not a case of reining him in- it's a case of you BOTH being responsible for what are joint assets, and debts.

You really should not sign anything unless you know the full implications- and I suspect your DH knows that the way to get round you is tp resent these forms at the 11th hour and put you under pressure. manipulative.

Original poster
KlickKlackknobsac · 25/10/2011 20:52

susiedaisy I agree!!
Smum99 honestly not sure about his objective!! Money yes, but the thrill also. Some houses been owned 16 years, others 3 or 4 years, others just a couple of months.
Also, I think that because one sale can solve all poblems, that is why he is so laid back.

OP posts:
Original poster
KlickKlackknobsac · 25/10/2011 20:54

amelia he does have other sources of income- estate agency, carpet sales, woodland letting.
He lets to lots of people on social- so has not experienced increase in rentals.

OP posts:
SolidGoldVampireBat · 25/10/2011 20:58

I think you might actually be married to an absolute crook, who will fuck off and leave you with all the debts. I think you really do need to talk to an independent financial advisor on your own with as much paperwork as you can lay your hands on.

Original poster
KlickKlackknobsac · 25/10/2011 21:05

Smile SolidGoldVampireBat
That may be because you just can't imagine how any of the above can be obtained legally- but believe me it can- we are overextended (hmph) but not breaking the law.
Plus he cannot fuck off and leave me with the debts- we are locked into it together as previous posters have confirmed. (unfortunately)
He is just daft (in some ways)
But I do not know the solution

OP posts:
hevak · 25/10/2011 21:08

OP, does your DH remortgage the properties? Are they interest only mortgages or capital repayment?

I ask this, because my DP views property as his retirement fund (he is wary of the stockmarket, doesn't trust pension fund managers). He always takes out a capital repayment mortgage and he would never remortgage a property because he calculates (correctly, IMO) that once the mortgage is repaid, the rental income will be "all" profit (less tax, insurance, maintenance costs etc obviously) as the main cost (ie. mortgage repayments) will zero. He calculates that the rental income from 2-3 houses (or hopefully more!) in decent areas will provide a good income on retirement (especially as we would anticipate living in a mortgage free home ourselves by that age).

If your DH has owned properties for as many years as you say, and hasn't remortgaged them, then there should be a decent amount of equity in them (even if the value hasn't risen - which I expect it would have - 10+ years of repayments on a capital repayment mortgage should mean a very healthy chunk of equity).

I know I'm banging on about specific financial issues here, and apologies if you have already thought all of this through, but I'm wondering if you know just how irresponsible he really is with your money?

SingingTunelessly · 25/10/2011 21:11

KlickKlack, are you Anthea Turner?!

Original poster
KlickKlackknobsac · 25/10/2011 21:13

The figure previously quoted of at least £500K equity is bottom line figure- I have reviewed all these figures- he thinks its more like £2mill so you can see I am downplaying things a lot. He has only remortgaged 2 we bought 16 years ago, and they still have equity now (he bought one for £30K originally and now worth £190- was the last non-shop front in a row of shops). Rest all original mortgages. Do nit know where money goes.

OP posts:
Original poster
KlickKlackknobsac · 25/10/2011 21:13

sorry about spelling

OP posts:
Original poster
KlickKlackknobsac · 25/10/2011 21:14

SingingTunelessly are you Adelle? Grin of course not....

OP posts:
Original poster
KlickKlackknobsac · 25/10/2011 21:16

hevak I think majority of mortgages are interest only.

OP posts:
AnyPhantomFucker · 25/10/2011 21:22

all of wouldn't be able to say no to this man ?

yes

we

would

start saying no

quit with the "he's a man so he knows the full picture"

you find out the full picture and then disentangle yourself as much as you can

I see this man doing a moonlit flit to Bangland (or some other place without extradition treaty) and leaving you up shit creek

seriously

or

carry on as you are (not recommended)

AnyPhantomFucker · 25/10/2011 21:23

all of us

hevak · 25/10/2011 21:24

Okay, x post with you OP.

If you're looking for a solution... well, here's my suggestion.

Try the emotional blackmail I suggested earlier (crying at the kitchen table with the household bills). Tell him that you're fed up worrying about money all the time. Tell him that you expect him to give you all the facts/figures you need/want in order for you to prepare some spreadsheets how you want to in order to ascertain a full view of your joint (and individual) finances. Tell him you expect him to respect your opinion on financial issues - just because you don't agree doesn't mean (either of) you are wrong.

Point out to him that you might actually feel much more secure if you knew the true state of your finances and that you therefore might be willing to buy more properties/take out more loans. Point out that you are saying no all the time because you fear that one small issue (such as a tenant losing their job and falling behind with rent payments) could bring the whole house of cards tumbling down. This might not actually be the case.

Mind you OP - the above would require your DH to truly love, care for and respect you. If this situation has been going on for so long and he has been hiding (and yes, I believe his behaviour has been deliberate) this from you all this time, then you may find he just won't change. Which will prove (IMO) that he doesn't actually love, care for and respect you as he should - perhaps he sees you as a source of income (and credit) which helps him achieve what he wants). I hope he does give you the information you want to know, but I fear the opposite :(

Could you print this thread and show it to him? How would he react? Bearing in mind he is being compared unfavourably to someone who has 63p to last them for a week. I don't mean that to be insulting to anyone (I think someone managing to survive for a week with 63p is good with money by the way - not saying "I'll put it all on a credit card") - but I assume he thinks of himself as someone who juggles manages his money well and he might be shocked to realise that total strangers think that's bollocks - not just you.

hevak · 25/10/2011 21:28

x post again - interest only mortgages! I am Shock Shock Shock

He has never changed them to capital repayment mortgages?

You're not sure whether they're interest only/capital repayment? (Most of) the properties (and mortages) are in both your names and you don't know Shock Shock Shock

Start arming yourself with the facts.

He is an idiot if all (or any, IMO) of the mortgages are interest only. Sorry, but he is.

You are being crazy not to put a stop to it.

Seriously, I'm really, really worried for you now.

Original poster
KlickKlackknobsac · 25/10/2011 21:36

Ok hevak will do lots of detective work. I do not agree with interest only, but if aiming to sell then not so bad (which is the intention).Why do you think that is so very bad?? Am genuinely interested. I understand that mortgage is not lowering, but mortgage lowers over time anyway due to inflation.
And I too am worried- hence post.
I have a hectic job and do not have time to play Sherlock Holmes. But will follow your advice.

OP posts: