My son has stolen money from me

[undercoverwizard]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this but I'm so upset and I don't know what to do. Yesterday my 8 year old son came home with a remote control helicoptor which he said his friend had lent him. I thought it was a little odd as it was quite an expensive toy but then again him and his mates are always lending each other things.

However, later last night I find a receipt for it and realise it was only bought yesterday. Checking my online bank statement, I notice 2 separate withdrawals for £30 and £20. My bank card is also missing. My son is the only one who knows my pin (don't slate me). He initially denied taking the money but he was out to play all yesterday afternoon and we live a 10 minute walk from the shopping mall. Eventually he admitted it. The helicoptor cost £40 and he also paid £7.50 to have his feet nibbled by those fish (I didn't think they were supposed to do that to children without a parent present)

I am so upset. I have been crying for the last half an hour as I can't believe my own son would do this to me. I have taken away his XBox and banned him from going to the Halloween disco but tbh, I'm at the end of my tether and don't know how to proceed.

As a full time working single mum of a 7 yr old I think you will have less spare time once you start work than you have had at university. I would be concerned if all ds's friends had mobiles as that would mean (at least to me) he is mixing mostly with secondary school children or at least yr 6 (some have mobiles at that age that I know but very few). I'd worry at the age of 8 he'd be a target for muggers.

I also agree with others that it is too much freedom to let him wander off at that age without knowing where he is. I'd add that taking your bank card, getting money out of a cashtill and spending it is done completely with knowledge and planning. I'd be extremely concerned about that.

I'm sorry you and bramble have been through this but you need to acknowledge that a lot of thought was involved and you need to deal with the mindset that he thought it was ok to do this. Probably influenced by his friends - do you know them and their parents? If so you need to speak to them and explain what has happened and the role their dcs played in your ds's actions.

Ds is tall for his age and very eloquent (normal guess is that he is 10). I don't let him out the house without me, let alone to the park even though that is about a three minute walk. He will have that freedom when he is old enough to be responsible enough to understand what it means.

It does seem that due to the ops medical issues the DS has had to grow up before his time. This is no ones fault. Perhaps the op should have a word with the staff from the young carers project he attends to get advice.

Shit times but got to applaud the op for honesty and seeking advice.

i hope you get this all sorted out, OP, try not to be too hard on yourself, if sounds like you have a lot on your plate at the moment. fortunately you have a child psych to hand, you should give them a call just because you can iykwim? but unless you had that association already i'm not sure the situation would warrant bringing someone in, again iykwim?

as regards all the 'an 8 year old in TOWN?' business, i guess it depends on the size of town you live in. i deeply regret the fact that my children will have so much less freedom than i had at the same age, when at 8 i was trusted enough to take younger sibs to the cinema etc etc (later found out that i was followed by my dad the first few times). even went swimming with them iirc, at about 12, after a half hour walk, also travelled to school for 40 mins each way on a bus and a train. so it doesn't sound too shocking to me, i think.

obviously the stealing is not good, but tbh it sounds like a cry for attention as much as anything else. and the foot nibbling is rather adorable.

Look, my almost 8 year old knows my pin. She knows how to use my card online and at the local shop. She also could have a fair go at using a cashpoint I'd guess although we never use them but she would never in a million years take my card without asking or spend more than she has been told she is allowed. This is because she know the consequences would be beyond dire.

She is also allowed to wander (within reason) but again wouldn't dream of going for spa treatments without my express permission, we do live near enough to spas and hairdressers for her to get to them without going further than she is allowed.

I have to say, though, even if we lived within spitting distance of a shopping center, she'd not be allowed to go there on her own and would be grounded until after the next set of holidays if she did. Grounding is my most effective punishment as she is very sociable and loves being out with her friends, followed by a ban on Moshi Monsters for x amount of days.

It's okay to allow freedom, but you need have rules and consequences if those rules are broken and you need to stick to them. Put the deadlock on the door. Don't take his savings, make him earn back the money doing chores in the house (beyond his normal chores), once he has paid back the money he owes he is allowed out but must within x amount of feet from the house until he proves you can trust him.

At the moment your son seems to think he can do what ever he wants and nothing much will beceom of it.

reading the whole thread... unbelievable. WHY is everyone keeping their kids up their underskirts? what is The Bad Thing that will happen to a group of sensible children with a clear curfew in a park?

Having read undercoverwizard's other threads about her DS, this isn't a little boy who should be being left unsupervised to get up to whatever.

He sounds like he needs a lot more help and support to get to the bottom of whatever is causing his problems.

Wow, you're the first person to say that Aitch. The thing is that in theory, I thought I could trust him it's just that now I feel I can't. I do believe in giving children a bit of independence as they get older but sadly I will have to severely cut back.

The Bad Thing, aitch happened today. They disobeyed the "clear curfew" in the park and went into town without permission, took money from the OP's bank account, spent it on expensive items and then lied about it.

I would say, not that it's particularly relevant now, that he destroyed the packaging not so it couldn't be returned to the shop, but that his mother wouldn't know it was new. He told her he'd borrowed it from a mate, afer all.

This boy has been rejected by his father. His father was once so abusive to him the police had to be called. He's got all the stress of having to think about his mother's medication and take care of her when she has a fit. He also is allowed out unsupervised to go wherever he wants. All this at eight years old.

I don't think the problem is with him. His behaviour is a reflection of the situation he's been put in by the adults around him.

Also, not sure if anyone has pointed this out but this was not a spur of the moment thing - the OP's DS took the card when he left. So this was planned. :(

You'd never guess this was Walk To School Month, would you?

I got a Mumsnet pasting when I said children were becoming obese because they're not allowed roaming any more ... it must be better to keep them at home and put them on a diet. Or something [hconfused]

Wrt the epilepsy, why are you having fits so often? Around 75% of sufferers can have their condition properly controlled with the right medication.

Have you tried different meds? What is your specialist saying about it all?

I don't think the problem is with him. His behaviour is a reflection of the situation he's been put in by the adults around him.

I agree - the naughtiness looks very much like a need for more positive attention. Great that he's doing well at school, and clearly is praised for his achievements :) I think he'll turn out okay.

DMC, the ESA criterion for epilepsy is more than two seizures a day - the govt considers you fit to work if you have two

Insane as that rule is, it demonstrates that there are plenty of sufferers who experience very frequent seizures. Of course, any medication strong enough to control that level of activity would wipe out one's ability to function at all.

garlic, the problem is that the child in question is 8 years old and is sneakingou tof the house. I have a 7 year old. I just cannot imagine being OK with that, the very fact he's sneaking around shows knows he's not allowed. And this isn't the first time he's gone out without OP knowing. I feel for you OP< and respect you for stickign on this thread when many would flounce, but the responsibility lies with you to pull this situation back. Why on earth does your son know your pin number? WHy have you not sorted the lock on the door before now? If it were me, I'd have called the police the first time he left the house, from sheer terror. And then I'd have insisted the police come to the house and scare him a little. He needs some proper boundaries. He is 8, and this will only get worse the older he gets and the more inappropriate freedoms you allow him. It's nothing to do with mollycoddling. If I saw an 8 year old out by themselves, even a group of them, I would be concerned.

i'm not talking about the OP's child, i know a bad thing happened here. but what's with all of you not letting your ten year olds out of your sight?

undercoverwizard, i hope you get this all sorted out. he's been a sneaky little jobbie today and your heart must be burst wide open, but it sounds like the pair of you together have had to deal with a lot in your time. accept help for him and you, and make him work like the devil to repay the damage, but on something fun-ish and responsible, like repainting a room, replanting a garden, somethign he can take pride in. i'm not a big softie with kids, i like firm rules and discipline etc, but this could be a big opportunity to re-draw some boundaries here.

The fact that he hid the packaging and lied shows he knew what he did was wrong and there would be some sort of fall out.

Kids do push boundaries and see what they can get away with. Some much more than others, so I don't think the "my child wouldn't do that because I know how to parent" take on things is particularly helpful.

Not all children have the same personality.

It's how the OP handles the immediate situation, and makes sure her son learns now that taking something that isn't yours is not on, ever. Kids do things which are wrong...sometimes simply because they are children and don't properly think through their actions. Which is why they require parental guidance.

undercoverwizard your DS hasn't done this because he doesn't like or respect you (don't take it personally), he's done it because he thought he could get away with it.You need to show him he can't. Give him clear boundaries. Boys like boundaries, it makes them feel safe. They will push them, just to check everything around them is still safe and secure. That's when you have to reinforce them. Then hopefully one day you'll realise you have a big grown up boy who doesn't steel or lie or disappear off for however long without telling you where they are.

Wrt my seizures, this is currently the best they have ever been and I have had it for nearly 10 years now. I am currently on 3 meds per day.

As for blaming his behaviour on the adults around him. I try to be a positive role model for my son and so does his grandma who he sees regularly but we are his only family who he sees regularly. He hasn't seen or spoken to his dad in months and I am glad about that as he is a nasty man.

The last time he was due to see him he called to cancel 40 mins before pick up time with a rubbish excuse. I changed our phone numbers about 1 month ago and told him to contact us through my mum as I was sick of his rudeness. He contacted her for the first time 4 days ago to ask to see him. This will be the first time he's seen him in approx 4 months (if the visit goes ahead as no arrangements have been made yet)

I was given a LOT of freedom when I was that age in around 1980, Aitch. But times have changed- in those days there were not that many families where both sets of parents worked full time so there were a lot more parents about in the community who would keep an eye out on the community's kids and what they were up to. Streets were much more traffic free during the day, most families in our road had only one car each which was used by the working parent to get to work. We actually used to be able to play in the road for a couple of hours without any cars going past. The same road is not like that now, it's very busy all hours of the day.

And actually, "bad" things DID happen to me at that age: witnessing a man exposing himself under a slide in our playground full of children (not a parent in sight), being offered a cigarette by 13 year olds sat drinking and swearing on the swings. Another time my sister who was only equivalent of yr 2 fell off some climbing bars and broke her jaw. Again, no adults around. Another time I was on the verge of getting approached by an opportune child molester (my mum had got delayed picking me up and I was on my own) etc etc

So while we relished the freedom as kids to go off and play hide and seek for hours and have picnics every day during school holidays on our own, on balance when it comes to my own kids I will certainly not be letting them do the same. If that makes me a helicopter parent then so be it.

oh and yes, OP, you will have to cut back here, clearly the independence has gone too far (and sneaking out when you are in the bath is Not Cute) but there is a big part of me that thinks kids need the space to either take responsibility (as i broadly did) or screw it up and get hoiked back in line.

The school-time buses in London are swarming with 8 and 9 year olds. I don't see that here in the sticks, but I do see small groups of children that age out with their scooters & suchlike.

I don't want to conflate the two issues here: we have an individual child, OP's son, who's developed some worrying attention-seeking habits which need to be addressed. We also have people insisting that 8 is too young to go off with same-age friends to a known destination less than two miles away. I say it's not too young, and the majority of child development experts would agree - each child's development stage taken into account, of course.

meh, i was flashed at too. didn't do me any harm, plenty of other kids about (no adults) and we were in no danger of going off with him. there may however be an increased danger in parks etc because so many parents keep their children chained to their x-boxes and safety in numbers etc is reduced. broken bones are a side effect of childhood, and learning how to deal with unsavoury characters whether 13 or otherwise is a good skill. as for an opportunist child molester, that sounds dangerous indeed and may affect your perception of actual risk, i can see that.

Send him to boarding school.

Seriously Aitch? If someone posted here that their child had been flashed at you'd really say 'meh, did me no harm?'

I'm sorry to hear your Epilepsy is so bad Op. Do you have any local Epilepsy charites who could help? We have a center close to us that runs awareness classes and has youth groups etc. for children suffering because of epilepsy (their own or a parents/carers) perhaps if you Google or ask at your GP you might have something similar close to you.