My son has stolen money from me

[undercoverwizard]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this but I'm so upset and I don't know what to do. Yesterday my 8 year old son came home with a remote control helicoptor which he said his friend had lent him. I thought it was a little odd as it was quite an expensive toy but then again him and his mates are always lending each other things.

However, later last night I find a receipt for it and realise it was only bought yesterday. Checking my online bank statement, I notice 2 separate withdrawals for £30 and £20. My bank card is also missing. My son is the only one who knows my pin (don't slate me). He initially denied taking the money but he was out to play all yesterday afternoon and we live a 10 minute walk from the shopping mall. Eventually he admitted it. The helicoptor cost £40 and he also paid £7.50 to have his feet nibbled by those fish (I didn't think they were supposed to do that to children without a parent present)

I am so upset. I have been crying for the last half an hour as I can't believe my own son would do this to me. I have taken away his XBox and banned him from going to the Halloween disco but tbh, I'm at the end of my tether and don't know how to proceed.

Thing is he's eight years old, he'll have no concept of the cost of kick-boxing or footie training. So he won't have the concept what's "not enough" either. You said this was stealing but also said that he didn't have concept of a bank account and how money works. This isn't the same as an older child taking money.

Pocket money is to give him money of his own, and to give him responsiblity for that, including being able to make his own choices about it. It's not just an indulgence.

He doesn't do any chores routinely at the moment although will do if asked. I could get him to do a reasonable amount with a "price" for each one although not a ridiculous amount.

As for TV, he does watch quite a lot so I will be putting a pin number on the TV. Good idea re. the pocket money too.

Hi OP, I think its great you've come here to reflect on whats happened and you seem to have taken on board some of the advice that has been given. It is understandable that you are upset but it might be helpful to think of this crisis as a window of opportunity.

This incident seems to have crystalised some issues that have maybe been bubbling away for a while (like when you say you've known he's had too much freedom etc), this incident provides with you an appropriate juncture to address his behaviour head on and to tackle any parenting issues you may have (and it does sound like there are some - show me a parent that hasn't!!).

Your comment about "those parents" who attend parenting courses are interesting. Im a social worker and I view parents who engage with those kind of support services as being the kind of parents who love their children enough to want to be the best parents they can be. I view those parents as entirely human with flaws and weaknesses like everybody else but with the humility to want to learn and improve. It maybe sounds corny and a bit new age, but now you've got the tears out of the way try to take something positive from this. I dont think its a bad idea to call his psychologist, he may not need any psychological intervention but she may be able to sign post you to other appropriate services.

Good luck :)

Noir, it is exactly that kind of condescending attitude of social workers which puts people off parenting classes.

Apart from referring their clients social workers have very little input into parenting courses so I wouldn't let so-called condescendig social work attitudes put you off OP, it'll just be you, the facilitators and other parents.

I don't find you condecending noir. I'm just about to qualify as an occupational therapist so I have worked closely with social workers at times, particularly on my last placement. I have found their work to be invaluable.

Ah when I did a placement in adult services and later a job in children with disabilities I found OTs to be great allies of social workers, I think we tend to bond over constantly challenging the medical model haha. Congrats on your qualification.

If someone had posted that an 8 year old had stolen 50p and gone to the corner shops to buy sweets and lied about it posters would have come along and given some straight forward advice. Some very honest hard working people have been known to commit such dreadful crimes as a child.

This is exactly the same thing, but on a much bigger scale, because he could.

OP, you do need to start limiting his access to the wider world, or before you know it he will access his/your/someone elses savings and buy himself a ticket to Barbados.

He sounds like a canny little chap, and I'm actually that he had a fish pedicure, but boys like this need to have a very close eye kept on them so they don't get into very deep water.

I have used a namechange here as I don't want to post this under my regular name.

My DS used my bank card to buy himself online Nintendo DS games, the bugger. I think he was 10. He strenuously denied it, in floods of outraged tears "how could I suspect him of doing such a thing, how could I call him a liar." In the end I found the games in question on his DS with the exact times they had been downloaded, which matched the times the bank had given me. Presented with the evidence, he finally admitted it. He was VERY sorry. Yeah right, sorry he was caught more like.

There were two transactions, one of £9, one of £18. Having proved the £18 was him I said I would let him off paying the £9 back if he stopped lying and admitted it without me having to find the proof first. He admitted it. I bitterly regret not making him pay that £9.

His punishment was that he had to pay the £18 back, and lost his DS for a period of time. Can't remember how long. I now really don't believe him about stuff and trust has been lost. Looking back I don't feel the punishment was harsh enough. I was heartbroken, frankly.

He is a very well behaved child and if you knew him you would be astonished. At the same age I used to take money out of my Mum's purse for sweets. I did this over a period of about 6 months, 20p, 30p a time until suddenly one day I was stricken with remorse, cried myself to sleep with the guilt and have never stolen anything again in the rest of my life.

When the subject of the stolen money is brought up - and I can't help myself, I do bring it up, usually if he is saying "but why don't you believe me" about something - he seems genuinely sorry. Hmmmph.

I think kids just do things without thinking. I hope to God my DS doesn't try anything of the sort again. I know that there is absolutely NO benefit of the doubt given to him any more.

Hope this makes you feel a bit better, and a bit less alone, OP.

OP - I have read some of your other threads and you really, really need to get some more professional support with your DS I think. He sounds like a confused and sad boy.

I wonder also if it would be looking into family therapy because I suspect you both need to discuss how your relationship could work better.

I'm glad you're going to look into parenting classes but I think you need some more dedicated support before he gets to be a teenager. I really do think you can turn this around but unless you put in the work now, both of you, then I think you could have big problems on your hands when he gets older.

Good luck.

Thank you for that bamble. I think that what my son has done and your son did may go on more than people like to admit but people are too ashamed say anything. I too feel that all the trust has gone and I feel so sad.

undercover you sound like a lovely woman who has a load on her plate

It sounds like your son is acting out his anger at his father disappearing from his life, and maybe he is worrying about your illness, sort of fear that you will take ill and leave him too. It's great you will be finished uni soon and have more time to devote to getting him sorted. I would def get back in touch with the psychologist and see the school too, for strategies to do in tandem with them.

It can't be easy but you clearly love him and want the best for him.

No-one's suggesting he needs a 'shrink' DAB but the OP will undoubtedly benefit from talking to her ds's former child psychologist who will be better placed than we are suggest solutions and resolutions.

I'm not 'reading too much' into the helicopter, but with children who are not always abe to articulate their emotions what they steal can give some insight into why they stole, although some will have it that an act of theft by a child is motivated by a desire to steal 'love' in an attempt to compensate for what they do not perceive or receive as love in their lives.

Who was your son with when he bought the helicopter? How old are they?

I would be really worried if my 8 year son disappeared out of the house, let alone calling him every 30 minutes! My 8 year old doesn't know how to use a phone yet (or a cashpoint!!!). No way would I let him go off to parks or shopping centres on his own, use a cashmachine, be where I didn't know he was etc. It's not so much the fact he's stolen it's the fact he could even be in that position that shocks me.

He was with 2 friends when he went into town, both the same age as him. The girl he was with had apparently been given some money by her mother for a fish pedicure and then there was another boy. I know them both and while I think the boy is a little cheeky, the girl is always polite and sweet so it's not like I don't know them. They then went together to buy the helicoptor. I think it was a bit of a joint enterprise with a lot of "egging on" going on.

3 x 8 year olds in a shopping centre on their own . Mind boggles.

One thing to remember is that they are all well under the age of criminal responsibility...

Why would you think it is ok for an 8 year old to be in town with two more 8 year olds???

Mind boggles is one hell of an understatement.

Really? Because seriously, wtf?!

I never said I thought it was OK. Have you read the whole of the thread? I thought he was at the park. I hadn't given him permission to go into town. Admittedly, that makes me sound terrible because I didn't know where my son was but we actually live the same distance from town as we do from the park (10 mins) just in a different direction. He won't be doing the same again.

Undercoverwizard - it may be worth asking to have this thread deleted. Imo you have all the good advice you need and have nothing to gain now from this thread. You will get lots of people logging on and expressing their shock so either be prepared for that or ask for deletion.

I've skipped the middle 4 pages of your thread, undercover, as it was all a bit shouty for me and I kept thinking about the irony of a child stealing a helicopter when all these 'helicopter mothers' are saying they don't let their 8-year-olds out of the garden! [hblush]

I hate to say it, but he sounds like a real sparky lad and I am secretly impressed though I would NEVER even hint that to a child. Thieving and running away are both classic distress behaviours in children, and I suspect you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that you've been cramming for your finals so he may have been feeling ignored.

It doesn't sound as though he's fallen into particularly bad company from what you say (I somehow don't see getting a koi pedicure as a gangland induction) and, fwiw, going out with pals is healthy, independence-building activity for an 8yo. As long as you know about it, of course.

I'd get rid of the helicopter, yes, and withdraw some privileges as you've already done. I wouldn't turn the home into a prison, though, or extend his punishment longer than a week or two. At eight, he's not likely to retain the cause-and-effect lesson any longer than that.

Your parents seem to be pitching in quite heavily with you. It's fab that you have this support, but I wonder if you can redistribute the load any, so as to get more one-to-one time with DS?

I have, and you seem to think letting an 8 year old out alone is ok. That is bizarre. I personally don't care if it is the park, town, wherever ... The Safety of my children is paramount and you are exposing your son to too much. If you are too I'll to go out then he can't go out, unless with an adult. Be careful that someone who knows you does not call SS.

I was going to add my spluttering WTF??? 8??? to this, but I see that has been done and you have been brilliant for not flouncing and instead deciding to make changes for the better. Hope you can sort it all out OP.