SO SHOCKED

[dustystarry]

Found out today that dh been having affair for a year. I had no idea. 12 yr old dd found out
looking at a phone he had borrowed cos his was broken. I feel completely shocked + numb. Always thought Id know but I had no idea at all. Our ds 11 has Sn and is really challenging to live with. I battled through oblivious to dh fixing his feelings with another women. Not been on MN for years + had even cancelled my membership but cant sleep + didnt know where else to go :(

I think the counsellor's words have got lost in translation here, but rather than this pointing to your H wanting to resume a sexual relationship, I think it reveals that he doesn't. When you commented that sex was only possible if he was committed to make a go of things, he hung back and still wouldn't give that to you. I don't think he wants to resume the relationship at all, I'm afraid, in any sense. But he hasn't got the courage to tell you that.

He's playing you very well. He knows you won't take the drastic decision, so he can play for time as long as he wants. He's the one in control here and always has been.

Re getting the passion back comment from counsellor. Maybe it was about experiencing the two types of love, agape and eros (I think - DH had a printout from counsellor about it). One being the love you experience at the beginning of a relationship (can't keep your hands of each other, swinging from the chandelier, can't eat etc type of love) and the other being the type of love that comes from being in a long term relationship, that is built on a shared history, gaining pleasure from being each other, sharing the same goals in life etc (haven't put that very well). The problems (and affairs) come along because it is not possible to experience both at the same time and your H (as he has had previous affairs) is probably hooked on the first type (eros (erotic ??) I think). I tried to find DH's printout but couldn't. Hope it makes some sense.

Maybe the counsellor didn't put it quite right or your H misinterpreted ?

Sadly I think you are probably right charbon. I'm so tried today and still don't feel well and my head's a complete mess. I found myself getting too emotional to say what i wanted to iykwim. Also he couldn't get out of work until 2.15 so really not long enough to have the kind of conversation we needed to have.

Re what the counsellor said I think he was talking to H about his feelings for me and OW. He doesn't want to lose me and everything we have but he doesn't fancy me any more. He has given those feelings to OW and doesn't want to lose them either. He wants both really. The counsellor wasnt suggesting that we jump back into bed together but simply pointing out that we had the romance and passion once and if we could get it back H would have both in one relationship (as he bloody should do!) Obviously that would require effort from both of us.

Sadly I think that many of you are right and he can't let go of OW. I don't know whether he's been in contact with her - I'm fairly sure they haven't seen one another since all this came out.

I need to have some decent nights sleep so I'm feeling stronger on monday when we both go to counselling and I can actually say what I want. I know its my decision but that only works if i choose to walk away - if I choose that I want us to try again that requires him to choose that too. I know I should choose to walk away but I'm still finding that very difficult.

I am slowly starting to realise that the chances are that our relationship is over and now I just have to work on getting my head around this. The first step for me is putting all the practical stuff in place so the children and I are ok financially etc. Its taken me this long to book a solicitor but I have now done it and in the last few days have sorted a lot of the other practical things out. I need to do this at my pace though. I may be putting off the inevitable but I need to do this my way.

Im sorry dusty that this is still happening to you and that your H isnt committing fully to you and the childrens relationship.

Do things at your own pace, that is definitely what you need to do, dont rush things regarding your financial security etc.

What a day you've had . I absolutely agree about doing things in your own way. I know what an utter and complete shock it was for you finding out and how you tend to deal with crisis, like a swan, calm on top and paddingly furiously under the surface. You've come a long way over the last few weeks and are putting things in place to protect yourself and the children. Whether or not you use what you are putting in place doesn't matter. The very act of you doing these things puts you more in control, knowledge is power and all that.

Your time away is coming round fairly rapidly and I think a couple of weeks on the other side of the world with your sister will do you a huge amount of good, you absolutely need the headspace. I think you'll come back much clearer about what you want from your future.

The only thing I would say is maybe leave a bit of time before answering his texts, give yourself a bit of time to think before answering . And I would be very careful about what you tell him regarding your solicitor visit. If he pushes tell him you want time to get your head round the information or something, only discuss it when you are ready and be selective what you tell him.

I'm much calmer now after a nice My lovely dd is very mature and has lots of insight for such a young person. She surprises me by her level of understanding about both what is going on and about her Dad and what he's like. In fact its quite scary how well she knows him - makes me wonder just how blind I've been. She's changed her mind about wanting us to get divorced but says she wants her Dad to commit to me and to us and try again. I have explained that this might not happen and that even if it does there are no guarantees that it would work but given the choice she would still prefer it if I gave him one last chance. I said that whatever decisions I make about the future I will take both hers and DS's feelings into account but ultimately it will be my decision. Yes I know I'm giving him too much control right now but that doesnt mean he will get to make all the decisions about what happens. If H doesnt want to try then my decision is superfluous really but if he decides he wants to try it doesnt mean that I'm still going to be receptive to that in the coming weeks. I still have a way to go in picturing a future without him but trust me I am working on it

Took me so long to actually post that last post that I missed u wynken. I shall be strong I promise

Ok time to shake off the blues and start thinking about Aus again. I am smiling for the first time today after talking to DD and relaxing a bit I've not been able to feel excited about it at all today so far but finally the mist is lifting and excitement and hope are seeping back through! I will prevail

Any must see recommendations Thumb?

Dusty - your DD is very mature for her age and lovely :) However, I'm guessing that she only knows half the story and half the facts? and at the end of the day, she's still young and kids want their Mums & Dads to be together don't they. You have to be strong and not convince yourself that you'll 'do this for the kids' thus actually avoiding deciding what is best for you and thus for them.

I'm not doing hard stares, honestly ! All I want is for you to get to the solicitor to get chapter and verse so that can percolate in your mind over the coming weeks. I still think what I said yesterday, you don't need to decide now and any decisions you make either way aren't set in stone.

I won't chipping. Its about what I want really but its helpful to know what she wants too and that she understands that trying again doesnt mean it will work. We also talked about me dating again - she brought the topic up She says she would want me to but to take it slowly and not move my new man in after a couple of months (as a neighbour did!). Her recommendation is that i chill about the whole thing and go out with my friends and have fun and then if i don't find someone after a few months to go on dating websites!! I doubt DS will see it the same way but tbh so long as it doesnt affect his day to day stuff too much he'll be ok.

She's just given me my first proper laugh of the day

How's the ?

Aus - have you got your departure date sorted yet? We need to start the countdown!! Think of all that lovely sunshine Lovely food, lovely ... oh and your sister!

Ok I think my brain is officially now melting. He came over tonight just over an hour ago and said he is sorry for being crap. He says he wants us to try and save our marriage if we can and he wants us to try and get a counselling session this week. He wasn't here for long but we had a really good talk about what had gone wrong with our relationship prior to the affair. It was the most open and honest conversation we've had in a long time and we were both calm and rational.

Obviously its what I wanted to hear but I am wary of his motives. Has he come to his senses finally when faced with the reality that I might actually divorce him or is he playing nicely to try and stop me pushing ahead with the legal stuff? I have no idea. It felt genuine but I definitely can't trust my judgement right now. I'm still going to see the solicitor and go ahead with the legal stuff and make sure everything is in place for me and the kids to cope alone long term and I'm not going to let this sudden change in attitude alter my focus on ensuring we 3 are more than ok. As many of you have pointed out, I have nothing to lose by sorting the legal stuff so if this is a ruse to stop me pursuing a legal agreement he's going to be disappointed.

No wonder I feel sick today. I've been up and down like a bloody yo-yo! I know he may be playing me for his own selfish reasons and I am approaching this with extreme caution. Hopefully we can set up an extra counselling session this week and talk through things more thoroughly with Mr No-Bullshit listening and not dd's flappy ears at her bedroom door. If not it'll have to wait until monday.

MN needs a emoticon for a complete headfuck! just doesnt quite sum it up

Sorry - but had to laugh at 'DD's flappy ears at her bedroom door'

What a mind fuck day.

IMO - the only difference between this afternoon when he didn't want to make a commitment to you and tonights wanting to try - is you saying you are going to see a solicitor. Call my cynical and drive a bus over me - but ....

This is exactly what I've been trying to persuade you of Dusty. The visit to the solictors has rattled him and it's possible he thought he might lose you. What motivates an ambivalent person is loss. That never changes.

Therefore you've now seen with your own eyes that this works. Press ahead with the solicitors and keep your cards close to your chest. Continue to make him think he might lose you now and that you're fed up of waiting for him to choose your marriage.

I'd give the joint counselling a swerve, personally. You might want to suggest however that you are going to find a counsellor of your own to help you to come to terms with your decision to end the marriage.

What this man needs more than anything now is a swift kick up the arse and a shock. He's always believed deep down that he holds all the cards and that he didn't have to fight very hard to regain his marriage. Instead you've been the one doing the fighting and worse, waiting for him to choose you.

That has always been the wrong way round. He'll value you and your marriage far more if he has to fight, believe me.

Hey Dusty, sounds like you've had a real rollercoaster of a day!
Remember what I said before though - the real emotions are the ones that are "in the moment", whether it be of anger or shock. The carefully planned speeches are the ones to be most careful of as they are more likely to be the "face".

Places to go in Sydney - depends on what you like! Sydney Opera House obviously; even if you don't go in it you have to visit and see it, it's astonishing.
Don't even try to walk the Harbour Bridge - it will be way too hot in January (probably) and last week someone passed out while doing it in the heat. Mind you, I'm saying that but we had friends over from the UK last New Year and they did it because the weather was quite cool and dampish! (It's pissing down and really cold today, well about 16degC, which is cold for summer!) OK, think about the Harbour Bridge walk - but only if you have a good head for heights.
Sydney Aquarium is a good one to visit - not as good as Hong Kong but still pretty good and not too expensive, unlike Taronga zoo which is pretty costly!

Will have a think about some more places that are worth a visit - also depends on what you like, I mean I've been to Bondi beach and it did nothing for me (just a beach with a bunch of young wannabes and surfies on it) but there is good shopping at the Bondi shopping centre (expensive though - did I mention clothes cost a lot here?)

Our DDs share the same ears I think! Hope you got some sleep last night.

There's that word again, sorry. Quite fond of it isn't he, yet he never manages to stop doing things that need him to use it again not long after the last time he used it. That's been his pattern over the weeks since you've found out.

My opinion this morning, for what it's worth is he has never really considered that you might give him the boot or if he did, he hadn't really thought through what it would mean for him and his life. Shock number 1 for him was you mentioning joint custody of DS, which to be honest I think is his worst nightmare. And although from what you were saying about OW the other night I did think it might be coincidence that she mistakingly rang your phone the day you mentioned custody, from her reaction yesterday, I'm no longer convinced on that one.

And now the solicitor has caused a bit of a crisis. And all of a sudden he's sorry again. The cynic in me can't help thinking that's because he's worried you'll be told something that will kick him where it hurts, his wallet. And more importantly as I think it's the one he is really scared of, what you'll be told about the custody issue. There is a pattern to his behaviour if you step back a bit and look.

I know honesty is usually the best policy but I would play your cards very close to your chest right now. Let him think things are OKish and see what his behaviour does then . Sort out lots of time for him to spend with the children so between them and work he has little free time and ideally feels a bit stressed, as this is when you see his true feelings emerge. Yes it's game playing bug nothing he hasn't done and all is fair in love and war - especially when the war declaration was his as in this case .

Hope that makes sense , not had my morning cuppa. Just said to DH that H had gone round last night. He said 'Eh ?' I said 'He's sorry ' his response was 'Course he's bloody sorry , he's going to end up being buried at this rate'. To be fair he was concentrating on fighting off Slobber Dog who was very intent on telling him how happy she is to see him, inher own lovely smelly way.

Can I just say Dustystarry that it is still very, very early days. I think it is only just starting to sink in with your H what he has done - IMHO it takes these men a long time to "get it" as they have behaved it such a way for a very long, in my DH's case since he was 5 (dysfunctional family). My DH changed gradually over a period of months (I challenged/pulled him up many times). It took him 6/9 months to really get my trauma over the affair.

I think joint counselling is the only way forward for you if you want to try and repair the marriage. Be prepared for your marriage to be stripped bare, it will give you clarity of thought. Even things like the diagnosis of your DS will be discussed - it transpired that my DH didn't cope very well with our DS3's diagnosis, it was easier for me as my DS1 (not DH's) was already diagnosed as autistic so I didn't really appreciate what my DH was feeling. Looking back this wasn't fair of me as I was in a right state when DS1 was diagnosed so I should have appreciated that he might not be coping with the diagnosis IYSWIM.

Most definitely keep your solicitors appt.

Good luck, one day at a time and all that.

Thanks for the messages I slept much better last night thank god so although I'm still tired I'm much more together.

I spoke to H this morning and he still maintains that he wants us to try and rebuild our marriage so I have rung the counsellor and left a message asking if he can fit us in for a session tomorrow.

I am wary about his motives and also about his commitment to me but if he really wants to try then I think I do too. I'm not sure we can sort things out and either one of us may decide in the end that it isn't what we want after all but I'm not ready to walk away if there's a chance we can come through this stronger. When I look back in 10 years time I want to be able to say i did all i could to save our marriage even if in the end it couldn't be saved.

People do come out of things like this though so I do think we have a chance if we both really want this and are prepared to make the changes necessary to make it work. Of course H could be playing me right now, he could still be ambivalent and trying to stop me making a decision re divorce until he's had more time to think, he could genuinely be very confused and trying to do the right thing. I can't see inside his head though so all I have to go on are his actions.

I have been thinking a lot about what I'd need from H in the short term while we are separated and in the long term should he move back in. I am going to write everything down so I don't forget and we can discuss it in counselling. He is a selfish man and probably always will be but that doesn't mean that he can't change if thats really what he wants.

I know it sounds as though i am softening my position but I'm not really. I'm still going to talk to the solicitor about divorce and get a legal agreement sorted. I will play the game if thats what i need to do. I'll have to talk about the legal stuff with H because he will need to sign the agreement but if he's really committed to trying again then he should be prepared to do that.

As counting says, it will take a lot of work from both of us if we want to move forward together from this so I will use the counselling sessions properly and not just go through the motions. Yes I risk getting hurt if i do this but nothing in life is risk free. No matter what though I am going to continue being more selfish and putting my needs first more often. There is a better life out there for me and whether that is with H or without him I know in time I will be happy again.

OF course you will be happy again dusty I think you need to do this the way you need to do it iyswim. Playing 'the long game' so to speak.

In time you may not want your H back, and that is your choice, as is working through things together. Its always easy to say 'oh leave the bastard' but seldom are things so black and white.

Definitely what Charbon and Chipping says - I made it clear to my H that the decision was mine and if he didn't like it, then I would show him the door. That is exactly what stops the ambivalent.

Even now, my H is aware that he's still on probation. It can take months for the reality of how much damage they have done to really hit them. At the moment my H is in a bad way after his father's recent death, my FIL left his young family for OW and ended up dying a lonely death, estranged from his DD, despised by family and friends. Tis a bit like being confronted by the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come and that has shaken him up a lot and made him think again about all the things he did.

• ambivalence

JUst read your last post Dusty - I appreciate what you are saying, having made a similar decision.

Can I just say though that you need to make it clear to your H, that its going to be very hard work and he will have to do all the fighting to win you back? Also that you are not making long term guarantees?

I will hotchoc. I've realised that I might need to make it very clear what i want from him though. I've felt he wasn't making enough effort and in a lot of ways he hasn't been but talking to him yesterday it occurred to me that if I couldnt verbalise what i needed him to do then i couldn't really expect him to know. If I make those needs specific and clear then I give him a better chance of meeting them and I'll know that if he doesnt its because he either doesnt want to or can't. The counsellor has just rung back and we have a session for tomorrow lunchtime so I guess I'll have a better idea by tomorrow afternoon.