name changer with relationship problem

[sweepitundertherug]

Sorry if this is jumbled, I can think it all in my head, but getting it into words is harder!
My husband is odd with money. This is the crux of the problems. He wouldn't see that there are any problems. As far as he's concerned he pays "housekeeping" into the joint account & if I ask he'll put some more in there. He KNOWS I hate asking for money & I budget really well. Recently he put up the "housekeeping" by £50 a month. I am very aware that I don't may the mortgage/bills btw & aware we have no debts. So I am lucky in that respect.
On the money he gives I pay for everything for the 5 of us. I am quite frugal and I am not bothered by material things so in a way he doesn't realise how much real life costs. The last few months I've had heavy spends but I needed 2 full sets of uniform from scratch, 2 of the children had growth spurts & all 3 needed winter coats.
Due to new schools I have the extra expenses of school lunches daily, bus fares & extra diesel costs.
I don't have any money for me really. My clothes are tatty.
I really felt this on the weekend. We all went shopping. I got the children their winter clothes & a few bits of underwear they needed. DH spent over £200 on 2 jumpers & 2 shirts. He does his clothes from his own money btw.
I don't have enough money in my budget for anything for me.
On the drive there, DH was saying about the spending & then pointed out that my weekend away in July has been really expensive. It was £200 for me & the 3 kids. He was away with work & if he'd been around then he could have had the kids & I could have stayed with friends. As it is, I never ever do anything as I can't arrange anything due to his job & his travelling. Not to mention weekends taken up with sport when he is around. So this one time, I thought sod it, I'm going. I don't think he really liked that anyway but ffs, this weekend he's off ABROAD for a football game. Going early Sun & back late Weds. Also he's managed to arrange something without his work getting in the way.

Now, dh isn't stingy. It's hard to describe him really. If the kids need clothes, they get them & he wouldn't have me buying the clothes from cheap shops. Their clothes mainly come from Next, M&S or Debenhams. His clothes are labels with the odd basics from M&S/Debenhams.

He gave me £500 earlier in April. It's gone. Basically got some clothes for summer, jeans as all mine were wearing thin & got some creams/make up. Also if I went for lunch or something.

He earns a very good wage. But he can't wait for me to go back to work. I don't work now after having No3 as childcare would have wiped me out. I paid for childcare for the other 2 in the holidays. He says we will afford much more when I'm working. I was earning about £600pm. OK better than nothing but hardly pays the mortgage! He basically saved while I was working. He can still afford to save now btw. He is OBSESSED with saving. I appreciate he wants to save for university/old age but tbh it's at the expense of having a life now. Well, if I'm honest, it's only me that doesn't have a life. He does, he goes to football games etc...I feel bad "wanting" money as I'm taking away from my kids future.

To go back to the very start of our relationship, it was equal, we were both working & when we got the house we split the bills equally percentage wise from our wages. Then we moved abroad for his work. How naive (sp) I was. We didn't have a penny when we went over. We basically saved. All his salary when I worked & when I wasn't then we spent as little as possible. No joint accounts either. Stupidly.

We didn't have a joint account till I stopped work after dc3. I thought it would be a proper joint account but it's just an account he pays money in for me that he can keep an eye on.

Occasionally he gets voucher bonuses from work. He'll give me half but give me less housekeeping. This really annoys me but he can't see anything wrong with it.

He is hard to talk to as he has the knack of making me feel a bit stupid.

Our relationship is fine so long as I don't bring up the money issues. I did a few months ago & he said "oh you'd have us living out our older years in a council house" I was furious & really upset about that & then he claimed he was joking. I grew up in a council house btw.

I don't have expensive tastes at all. Labels mean nothing to me. I am a frugal cook. I got a sack of spuds on the weekend for £5.50. You know, I watch the pennies.

I keep all this buried & most of the time I am "happy". I feel jealous though after the weeekend. Childish I know but my kids & dh look fine & have lovely clothes. Mine get tatty & just get replaced when I can justify it.

I am sorry this is so long. I have to get this off my chest. My chest is really tight today.

Thank you for reading. Much appreciated.

I am going on the school run now & the children may want the computer till this evening. The DH will be home. So if I don't get back till tomorrow, I promise I am not ignoring any replies...or a troll!

Tell him. He is not treating you as an equal partner in this relationship. He sounds rather selfish to be spending £100s on him, and you have to scrimp and wait until your clothes fall apart. He is allowed to go abroad for pathetic football and you are wrong for spending a couple of £100 for you AND your children. He is taken care of so he saves the rest. What about you?

£50 a month won't go any way to covering lunches, bus fares and extra fuel costs now days. So while he is looking generous you probably really have even less in real terms to spend on household stuff.

There is SFA wrong with a council house. In fact I would prefer to live in one and have clothes that weren't falling apart than to live in a nice posh house and look like a tramp.

I don't think you have a fine relationship. I think you have a fine relationship as long as you put up with being a cook/cleaner/housekeeper and second class person. As soon as you want to be equal or even just more fairly treated he objects until you crawl back into your hole. He is making you feel guilty for wanting a new pair of jeans because you are taking away from your children's futures while he spends £100s from their future..........

PS children don't need posh clothes. You are crazy to be spending Next/M&S & Debenham's prices on clothes they will go through and grow out of like weeds. They need practical useable clothes not labels. Buy from Sainsburys, Asda or Primark and spend some of the difference on yourself.

What are you getting out of this relationship now?. This is no ideal relationship model for your children to be a part of.

This reads like you are in a financially abusive relationship. Its seemingly okay for him to spend money on clothes and away games of football but he's gone mad over your weekend away with the children. He's having his cake and eating it; no wonder he wants you to go back to work so he can control that money too. No wonder you're deeply unhappy with the way things are and they won't change because at heart he thinks he is doing nothing wrong.

My guess too that this was learnt behaviour from his parents.

Financial abuse can take many forms, from denying you all access to funds, to making you solely responsible for all finances while handling money irresponsibly himself. Money becomes a tool by which the abuser can further control the victim, ensuring either her financial dependence on him, or shifting the responsibility of keeping a roof over the family's head onto the victim while simultaneously denying your ability to do so or obstructing you.

Please talk to Womens Aid; they could really help.

Does he justify that as he earns the money, he can choose to spend it how he thinks fit on himself?

OK I was doing really well, giving this guy some shred of benefit of the doubt...

...Until the VOUCHER thing.

This is Financial abuse. This is classic Dominator, King of the Castle + Jailer - jailing you by keeping you on a short lead so you can't have a life that is not beholden to him in some way.

He will say it's our money. He can say anything though. Actions speak louder than words.

He acts like we're poor sometimes as well. It's ridiculous. So we can't buy a Million pound house, but so what.

He makes it awkward for me to go away for the weekend. I want to go & visit my auntie & I want to go on the weekend so my uncle & cousin are around as they work in the week. He will somehow rather I go during the week or when it's not the football season so as not to interfere with his weekends of footballing stuff. He stopped going to so many premier football matches but now instead goes to local non league football. It's cheaper & he isn't out all day but I still can't get anything done on the weekend. His attitude is, we're not doing anything so why should he stay in. ONCE we went out. We went to a local nature place. He says I should arrange for us to go out as he can't be stuck in doors. It's boring. Sunday mornings are him playing. When he's not away with work. He thinks he has compromised.

I don't think he respects me at all. If I say anything though he says of course he does & acts all lovey-dovey. He makes it look like it's me who's being silly & paranoid.

I am quite easy going which I suppose doesn't help the situation. The evenings tv is his choice as I can watch in the day as we have sky +.

This sounds stupid but this is a typical thing that happens sometimes. LAst night I wanted to watch the tv. I wanted to watch GB Bake Off when it was on. I don't think I've ever said I want to watch something because I just watch it another time. But with these programmes you always find out the winner if you don't watch at the time! He acted really shocked. He asked what was he supposed to do & that maybe he should go out for the evening. I was a bit shocked tbh. A bit WTF. Then he said oh it;s ok, I'm going to be on the pc anyway. As if that gave me permission towatch the tv. It made me feel crap so I watched it this morning. He kept saying, why didn;t you watch it. but he made me feel stupid. He kept saying, oh you really like GBBO do you. It's weird really.

But that is quite typical of him if I want to do something.

I said am talking kids to cinema on Sat to see Lion King in 3D. He asked Why? I mean, why not. He isn't going to the football. Immediatly he said he was going to the football tomorrow night (tonight) knowing full well I was going swimming.

He has just text to say he cba to go to the football. I knew he wouldn't go after work but he just said it to try & get a rise out of me. As he hasn't there is no point him going. I will be going swimming though.

Most of the time I just dissociate & so don't think about all of this. I have done so since childhood. I think he thinks he's rescued me from a shit childhood.

I have been on the womans aid website & there's nothing about financial abuse. Also he is very clever. How could I go through womans aid with no violence. What a fraud I'd be! I mean, I have a roof over my head, all the bills are paid. My kids are fine. They don't go without. Without him, they'd certainly go without. I know that sounds like a cop out, but it's true.

Daughter wants the pc & I'm damn well going swimming tonight, so may well not be back here till tomorrow.

Thank you for the replies.

This screams financial abuse to me too. And the dig oh, wait, the joke ; where's my sense of humour? about your upbringing just shows the contempt he really holds you in.

Here is some information from the welsh woman's aid site:
financial abuse

The more i read, the more my hackles are up.

Jesus wept, you do realise that is not the way normal couples behave don't you?
Housekeeping!!!!! You are partners FFS.

You should have as much control of the family finances as he does and access to all family money.

It sounds utterly horrendous.

So, do you feel guilty about spending money on yourself?

What discussion did you have about when/if you are going back to work?

Does he resent you not earning money to contribute financially?

Is he paying you in the same way he would pay a housekeeper?

From the Womens Aid website:-

"All forms of domestic violence - psychological, financial, emotional and physical - come from the abuser's desire for power and control over an intimate partner or other family members. Domestic violence is repetitive and life-threatening, it tends to worsen over time and it destroys the lives of women and children".

You write yourself that you think he does not respect you - too right he does not.

As you chose not to answer the question as to what you are getting out of this relationship now. I can only assume that you are getting precisely nothing from it.

You have also been posted the details of the Welsh Womens Aid website by Herhissyness which cites financial abuse. Please read it.

Look how he acted with regards to the telly yesterday; these are patently not the actions of a well adjusted DH here. More a maladjusted and abusive one. Again this was about power and control; this is what abuse is all about ultimately.

He has also made it awkward for you to go away for the weekend but its okay for him to go on football away games. He likely shouts you down if you try and reason with him.

Domestic violence as can be seen in the above first paragrah comes in many forms. You are being financially abused here. This is about power and control; he wants absolute over you. He knows that he rescued you from an awful childhood and uses that knowledge against you to control you further. He is treating you with contempt. Disassociating yourself from it is a defence mechanism on your part to shield yourself from the trauma.

This is not an ideal relationship model for your children to follow; not one bit of it. They are picking up on all this and learning from you both.

How would you feel if your children ended up in a relationship like yours is now?.

Oh gosh really with the 'he's abusive - leave him'???

OP, my dh was like this years ago when we earned a lot less money and we didn't have the right balance/dynamic re our working lives (long story). I understand how stifled and unhappy it's making you.

The only thing you can do is find the right moment to appeal to him to tell him how unhappy this is making you. To give him benefit of doubt he might really think he is doing the best for all of you (though him going away for footie match goes against that).

If he refuses to see your point of view and realise he's in the wrong here then that does suggest he is not the kind, caring dh you would want him to be.

Oh and for me going back to work was the key, it is now fine and yes my dh was a twat back then with money but he is not now and was not in other ways. But had I come on here I'd have been told he was abusive.

Leave him and let him pay a house keeper to do what you do, he will wake up fast enough then

Ah yes, I had one of these. Big shopping trips to The Gap for him and the kids with me hanging around in my Primark and George clothes. Endless trips away and nights out for him, big sulks and hassles if I ever wanted to do anything. Me book a night out? Sure as eggs are eggs, something would "come up" usually a big work related night out that just couldn't be missed because it would look bad with The Managers.

I dumped his sorry for arse for this kind of behaviour and other stuff. Now he has to pay a substantial chunk of his salary in Child Support each month and it drives him NUTS!

Something to think about.

Tell him you are going to get a weekend job so as you have some money to spend on yourself, he will of course be expected to look after the DC's whist you work

Oh and the tv thing? All my problems were stupid, pathetic, limited, "How can you watch Friends over and over again, don't you ever want to try anything new?" or "I always think that people who like watching Sci Fi are a bit limited in intelligence".

My dh behaviour makes some of your post uncomfortable reading. The tv bit got me really. I go to bed at about 7pm because if I wanted to sit in the front room and watch any old shit I want....well imagine the sneering and snorting. So I go to bed. I am told we are in real terms ...poor. We have no debt, we have a very cheap mortgage, our car is 8 years old. He earns £100K+. Even though we live in London, we live within our means.

I am going to go back to work (I hope) soon, not because I really really want to , but because i am totally fucked off being beholden and reminded about where the real power lies. We were financially independent at the start. I compromised on the wedding details as I couldn't be arsed fighting. His dad is the same. To a T.

I have ignored it all because I do not know how to tackle it. He sees it as being a wonderful provider and I am an ungrateful shit bag, look what I have done for you, why don't you get off your arse and get a job. He told me when I stayed at home to care for our littlely, any job I would have would be "benefit neutral". So, to my mind, his only view of me is that of cheap labour in the house, ...getting a tight chest here too.

No man would say this is abuse. Aren't they such martyrs, they slave and slave and this is the thanks we get. Men do not really get what it is all about. We are not 2nd class citizens whom they do with what they see fit, order us about and fob us off with shite and then look astounded that we don't do back flips.

Sorry Lola, plenty of men would recognise this behaviour as controlling and abusive. Mine for one.
I've never had housekeeping in my life, all money earned has been joint, if I want something I buy it, ditto DH, although actually he will ask if we can afford a large purchase first because he generally has no idea how much is in the bank or what our monthly commitments are, some men don't use the fact that they earn the bulk of the money as a method of control, they really don't, they acknowledge that their partner's input is invaluable, whether financial or practical.

Yes Malificence, agreed, but I think many men are aware of this. But, my experience of my DH, would be the first to say that this is abuse, but when he orders his universe around him, then it is just the way things should be. Seeing as I don't "earn" outside the home. The unwritten message is until you get a job outside the home, then I call the shots as I see them.

Thanks for the replies.

Things won't be better when I'm at work. When we got back from abroad, I didn't work. I went back when DC2 was about 3.

Then we had DC 3 & all my wages would have gone on childcare. DS3 all the time I was at work & the older 2 in the holidays. The older DC won't need childcare now though so that just leaves 2 of them.

But when i go to work he'll give less housekeeping. And I'll be responsible for the childcare.

But he can save more.

My last job began as evening & weekend. He was supposed to get home to have the kids & I'd leave for work. He started getting home late so I had to rope my sister in to help. At the time she lived in a tiny flat with 3 kids...So I'd have to get the kids to her, then get to work.

As soon as I got school hours the weekends returned to him doing his thing.

I'd have to get a day job as he travels so couldn't even think about getting a job involving weekends or evenings. That limits me.

So long as I don't rock the boat then everything is fine. I tend not to think about it. I try not to.

God knows how I'd leave him. Rent is so expensive around here. And I doubt he'd "let" me leave. That would be one hell of a can of worms to open.

He will keep moving the goalposts. My advice. Get yerself a little pot of money together in a dark corner somewhere. Nothing massive, just a steady little stream, perhaps £5 a week. Tell friends to give cash instead of pressies. Keep stashing it. My mum's wisest words, "always have your running away money". You may not be able to do it right now, but one day, one day....

What would he say if you said you wanted every bank account to be joint, and to have equal spending money for clothes?

What would he say if you said you wanted equal leisure time?

Wasn't this the old-fashioned way - man goes to work, gives wife housekeeping money (in the 1950's/60's)?

lolaflores - totally fucked off with being beholden rings a bell. He wants everything HIS way/gets on with his life. He doesn't want to fit in with anything. TV his way.Working hours his way.Money his way.Leisure time his way.

"No man would say this is abuse. Aren't they such martyrs, they slave and slave and this is the thanks we get. Men do not really get what it is all about. We are not 2nd class citizens whom they do with what they see fit, order us about and fob us off with shite and then look astounded that we don't do back flips".

Many people would cite yours and the OPs post as your respective DH's being financially abusive; they use money to control their female victim. This is about power and control

Not all men are martyrs by any means. These men clearly know what they are doing and they don't give a toss for the person on the receiving end of their rubbish.

They do this too because they can.

"God knows how I'd leave him. Rent is so expensive around here. And I doubt he'd "let" me leave. That would be one hell of a can of worms to open".

You are right on your last point; controlling men do not let go of their victim easily so you would need to plan a way out carefully and enlist help to do so.

None of the obstacles you cite above are completely insurmountable. Apart from anything else your children as adults would not thank you for staying with such an individual.