How many of the men in your life have used prostitutes, compared with how many who haven't? I'd like to ask for help or perspectives on this?

[aliasforthis2]

I'm a semi-regular poster but obviously have name-changed for this.

I feel sad and like I've seen things I cannot un-see.

So if you can be reasonably sure that your husband or partner or ex or other male in your life has NOT used prostitutes post please post here.

Likewise if any males in your life HAVE used prostitutes please post here too.

And also if they gave reasons for either doing it or not doing it or given their views on the sex industry please post them.

Hopefully it will give me a more balanced perspective than my current "all men are johns who did these things" and help my recovery.

I worked as a prostitute for 4 years and stopped/exited nearly 18 months ago. The reason I started working as a prostitute was because it was sold to me as a glamourous and easy way to make money. At the time I had many debts and was working minimum wage and living totally hand-to-mouth with no room for manouvere,if an unexpected financial burden hit like a bank charge, we would be screwed having to choose between food and electric. A friend worked for an agency and I'd seen Belle du Jour and naively thought it would be like that.

Anyway, I am now out as I just couldn't handle it anymore. A very small percentage of the men were ok but the vast majority did things like -
-try to take the condoms off
-have poor hygiene and refuse to shower first worried it would take up their 'time'
-try to get service for less money or even steal back the money
-try to force services i did not offer like anal
-be unashamed about the fact they were partnered or had a wife at home
-speak to me disrespectfully and patronising, saying things like "I want to get the most for my money" etc
-scrutinize my body and give me advice on how to look better or compare me either positively or negatively to other ladies
-try to take up mush more time than paid for deliberately
-sometimes maybe once a month i was assaulted leaving bruises or spat on or held in a house
-a lot of phone or text harrassment
-most wanted young women the younger the better ie 18-20. i'm serious when i say that this is what most men wanted - young and naive. I answered the phone for the agency sometimes and i'd say three quarters of the men specifically requested 'young' ie 18-21 , 25 at a push.Which I think is disgusting given most are in their 40s wanting as close to 18 as they can.

Obviously not every man did ALL of the above but I'd be hard pressed to find a man who did not try at least one of those things. I don't know any other way to describe it.

I have been single for a while, I had a relationship with a genuinely lovely man I met at my new work for a while (no red flags) but it ended as he became a complete workaholic when starting a company and we drifted apart and split 6 months ago.

Anyway the point of this thread is for me to get a more balanced perspective on men. I had counselling on the NHS for 12 weeks which was helping but they wouldn't fund any more. I have been told by sympathetic friends who are also ex prostitutes (not told anyone in 'real life') to remind myself that it's only a v.small percentage of men who use prostitutes/escorts. But I just cannot see it like that. Every man I see walking down the street I view as a potential customer of prostitutes and treated a person how the customers treated me. I feel like punching them sometimes for no reason. Every married man I know I wonder if they have went to a prostitute with their wedding ring happily on moaning about their wife. I find myself wondering if I will ever have a relationship with trust again. I don't live in a particularly big place or a travelling business place but the sheer hoardes of men calling the agency every day and booking was unbelievable. And more than half would have unsuspecting wives or gfs.

I feel sad and like I've seen things I cannot un-see.

So if you can be reasonably sure that your husband or partner or ex or other male in your life has NOT used prostitutes post please post here.

Likewise if any males in your life HAVE used prostitutes please post here too.

And also if they gave reasons for either doing it or not doing it or given their views on the sex industry please post them.

Hopefully it will give me a more balanced perspective than my current "all men are johns who did these things" and help my recovery.

Thanks x

I haven't read all of this but one thing does strike me, we make going to see a prostitute sound like such a horrible thing that only weak/exploitatitive/evil men do PLUS we demonise men who do it so is it any surprise that nice guys shy away from prostitutes so that all these poor women are left with are the shits.

I do feel some sorry, there are a few really nice blokes that hang out in the pub I go to most for quick drinks who, god love them, are ugly and not good catches, but would probably be perfectly genuine and amazed if a woman wanted them, but if what seems to happen is usual, they are going out night after night for years without a woman even touching them let alone holding them or kissing them, and yet if they ask someone who isn't a prostitute they are sex pests, but if they use a prostitute they are an evil disturbing man, it just seems way to harsh. I would hate it if one day I wanted a hug from anyone and everyone shied away unless i paid for it, then when I did everyone distanced themselves more from me - it sound so sad to me sometimes.

*Don't tell me what the other site is please. I just don't want something like that in my life.

I was unaware of Pnet until I came on MN, or even that there were men like that existed. It has never left me, I am sorry to say

Me too x

But then a decent but unattractive man wouldn't demand a youngest possible girl, he'd be grateful for any contact with a female - they aer in minority, as men like this don't feel entitled - Op did mention a minority of shy men like this, the problem is that sweet unconfident guys can't seem to get it up with a random woman, again as OP said they would often just apologise for not being able to do it and leave! I can only envisage success for such men with older, experienced and very kindly sex worker, that's why younger girls don't get these clients often. I still can't see how it would ever resolve his issues - he;d still end up lonely and possibly even more humiliated feeling so shy, so that's hardly a reason enough to keep the evil like prostitution going and not criminalised. There aer surely unattractive women who might get be interested in him (there aer plenty of married couples who are not exactly good-looking!) - he should go to therapy and boost his self esteem bu other means so that he becomes more attractive to women (or at least one woman in RL).

Missing this is going to sound a bit strange to you perhaps

But for every ugly bloke there is a woman who may be 1) equally ugly 2) of a similar age to him 3) be nice just like him 4) happy to hold him, kiss him, give him as many BJ's as he likes

It isn't too much of a cliche to say there really is someone for everybody

I mean, haven't you watched Jeremy Kyle ?

Prostitution of women is not necessary...society just likes you to think so

Oh God sorry if I sound bossy but perhaps best not to mention any of these other sites any more?

Anyway I just wanted to say, alias, that you asking why are the vast majority of the under-age seekers probably out there enjoying life whilst we absorb their shame? really got to me - beautifully posed and so powerful.

You are spot on, sex workers are absorbing the shame of these men.

probably isn't helpful to demonise men who buy sex, anyway I bet we all know someone who has used prostitutes at least once, but I don't see how the occasional example of some sexually and socially inept man justifies the brutality of the industry as a whole - or what its very existence says about the worth of women in any given society, which is why I don't understand how any government can sanction it

AF - totally agree, not just unnecessary but damaging to everyone involved (and third parties) on various levels. I think younger generation of men are less accepting of it than the older, as they SEE women being mostly equal socially and it's harder for them to objectify them. Plus there is now education and press on the subject - knowledge is power, incl. stories from the workers like OP. I think majority of men wouldn't go to prostitutes if they came across these accounts BEFORE they even could consider doing it, i.e very young age. No one in the past ever educated boys about the reality of it. Yes, always be evil types who would relish the control and violence, but it's the majority that has a real influence.

I just wanted to say, alias I think you are amazingly brave to post this and good luck to you.

I am very pleased to see this hasn't descended into the woman bashing/happy hooker crap which you often get on these threads, although a minority of posters have been unpleasant/abusive it's been just that - a minority.

alias, ohmetoo and others who have posted - you absolutely mustn't feel ashamed. The men who have used an abused you; they are the ones who should feel shame.

Urgh, just realised that may have come across a bit patronising. Absolutely not meant to.

Now, I haven't answered the question have I.

Of the men I have know well....one I know for sure has; he was a nasty piece of work anyway.

Others...XP, I wouldn't put it past him sorry to say, though I don't know.

Other men I know well, as sure as I can be the answer is no.

I don't think they can help it, feeling shame, that's why therapy is needed, and NHS should treat it more seriously! feeling shame comes from participating in seedy or wrong activity, whether pushed into it on not, it's human nature. Yes, there are to be fair some content sex workers, normally older and higher level (lots of money) but they aer those who stay in control of choosing (a few) clients. I think those who work for agencies must feel really humiliated as they can't even choose, and older women who run these agencies - yuk! ow evil aer they! The shame is probably about not standing up of yourself and feeling week, which is tragic and shows that society failed to protect the vulnerable people by allowing the whole thing.

I get that passions, I was more meaning that the real shame belongs to the men who do this and they shouldn't have tp. Not that the way they feel is 'wrong' (does that make sense)?

shoulldn't have to. Typing goes to pot when tired!

Urgh...shouldn't!!

yes, I understand, unfortunately lots of things SHOULD happen that don't especially morally speaking

Alias, I find your post puzzling, maybe it is due to my ignorance about the subject. You sound articulate and clever and I presume attractive if you worked in that business. So you watch belle de jour and you decide to leave your job and start fucking the sort of bastards that appear in that movie?
Didn't you have a boyfriend at the time or friends?
What sort of education you had? What about your parents?

there is the possibility that most men have used prostitutes but that because of stigma, only the wankers say they have, and also that because 'being a prostitute' sounds so negative we only hear from either people who can't hide or deny their role selling sex or the ones with problems so we assume all prostitutes are traumatised. A girl i met was very proud of her job as a japanse hostess until someone 'helpfully' explained she was a prostitute - and it was that idea that made her feel complately explaoited, when an hour earlier she had been fine with what she did.
(actually could we use another term like 'sex workers' or something, prostitute sounds to me like a category of humanity that is negative and dehumanised rather than a term that includes people who have sex for a known transaction - eg 'you pay for dinner and the hotel room, and you can do anything you want!; - is that prostitution??_)

missingfriendsandsad It's not only the wankers that say they have, as I can guarantee to you that the majority of men who hired me were not nice people, whether they told others about it or not. And by "not nice people" I don't mean that they were defined as not nice FOR THE SOLE REASON that they bought sex, no, a minority were ok, shy, misguided is the word I'd use. But a majority of the 1000s of men I saw exhibited clear signs of a nasty person. In different ways - some were rough and wouldn't be more gentle even when I kept asking but still paid without qualms, others were OK during the actual act but then stole the money back after or haggled endlessly before saying things like at my age (mid 20s at the time!!!!!) I should be charging less as not as "fresh"! Some were OK until they started spouting off really misogynist woman-hating attitudes, some were just the worst ie - anally raping with no shame whatsoever, or really really creepy guys trying to strange me leaving bruises. What I mean is that the vast majority,were in some way or another, unpleasant in varying degrees from mildly misogynist to actual rapist / strangler.

*strangle

I think all prostitutes ARE traumatised but it can be complex - some can be traumatised already by tough childhood so kind of expect tough unfair life and so end up as sex workers. Or htey can get traumatised in a straight forward way like OP' s been. There aer also those who stay in the profession but they aer so thick-skinned that they manage to detach mentally from their body, and see it as commodity (they aer really not there mentally during sex) but the fact they chose to settle for this life means they limited it and refused other (happy, fulfiling ) experiences so although they don't feel it they are still traumatised objectively, probably realise it when old. But to some extent or other I'm sure all are affected. Even if they get out early on,like a couple of months, trusting/loving/being loved men in relationships is going to be a huge issue - it will take a very special man to deal with it even if they don't know about the woman's past, which really limits there chances at good marriage etc. I think most just have no clue how it will affect them eventually, even those who never came across violence as such.

DH definately hasn't - one ex of mine actually had one paid for by a friend but refused to do anything with her, so no. I have two brothers, and I wouldn't be at all suprised if one of them had in the past, but I know he wouldn't now cheat on his wife. He was just single for a very long time, and likes a drink, and has friends who would.

My other brother wouldn't, and when I think about my other ex's, I just can't see them doing it either (about another 4 I could feel confident about)

OP, did you not want to report the violent ones to police? is it because you knew from others' experience that police would ignore it? as you were registered officially as escort you could have said that sex as such wasn't on offer, maybe, but he took advantage - I mean did you think of doing that at least when you decided to get out?

Alias, I find your post puzzling, maybe it is due to my ignorance about the subject. You sound articulate and clever and I presume attractive if you worked in that business. So you watch belle de jour and you decide to leave your job and start fucking the sort of bastards that appear in that movie?
Didn't you have a boyfriend at the time or friends?
What sort of education you had? What about your parents?

No, I was in a very bad financial situation with debts as I described somewhere in this thread, with a child to support having just moved to a new area after leaving my child's dad who was abusive (although not physically, verbally/emotionally). I was re-housed to a house with no furniture except kitchen cabinets and as I was working min-wage I did not qualify for the grant the government gives to people not working so I had no money for things like washing machine, cooker, beds etc and had no-one to borrow from at all and too bad credit to get a loan.

Around this time, just before I left XP yes I did see Belle du Jour on TV, but I'm not sure what you mean by "the sort of bastards that appear in that movie"? All Belle's clients (bar one episode I saw after I left industry) were portrayed as wining-and-dining her, sort of like a date/seduction and she was portrayed as enjoying the sex. I remember one in particular casted as "Ashok", her 'regular' with whom she shared books with and they were "really good friends" . All her clients paid her fees without hassle in envelopes instead of having to be forced to pay. One of her clients helped her with accounts (!) - I remember a lot of my clients smugly berating me because they assumed I didn't pay tax on my "easy money" even though I did , and once a guy declined to help me even put in a lightbulb which was high up. Someone very very obese also completely broke my bed costing me to repair it and then demanded his money back because his session of demanding I lick his anus numerous times even though I refused had been ruined! Add that to loads of depressing and sickening phone calls a day and at least once every few days being called names , It's not Belle du Jour - honestly!

I had a few friends at the time but not close ones. When I was actually escorting I was not able to make any new friends as I felt dirty/ashamed and sort of cut-off from the world. It's hard to describe.

I left school after Standard Grades as my father was moving abroad and I did not want to go with him so I (stupidly) got a job in a shop and moved in with the abusive exP when I was 16. I do regret this as if I'd been able to stay at home in this country I'd probably have went on to Uni as I was very clever at school. I do not regret the life experience gained though from working, having children and being independent at a young age, although I do very very much regret the prostitution.

My mother died when I was 11 and my father I did actually have an OK relationship with but he moved abroad to start a new life when I was 16. I was angry about that at the time but i now look back and realise he really did think in his heart it was best for the family to go start a new life after the death of my mother. But perhaps blindly he did have the opinion of the parent always knows what's right for the children no question. We are in contact but only see each other once a year since him and my sibling still live out there.

My entry to prostitution I don't think was caused by family/child abuse (as many are), but I do think it was a mix of dire financial circumstances and feeling a bit worthless due to abusive relationships with older men when a teenager.

I hope that answers your questions adequately.

I think all prostitutes ARE traumatised but it can be complex - some can be traumatised already by tough childhood so kind of expect tough unfair life and so end up as sex workers. Or htey can get traumatised in a straight forward way like OP' s been. There aer also those who stay in the profession but they aer so thick-skinned that they manage to detach mentally from their body, and see it as commodity (they aer really not there mentally during sex) but the fact they chose to settle for this life means they limited it and refused other (happy, fulfiling ) experiences so although they don't feel it they are still traumatised objectively, probably realise it when old. But to some extent or other I'm sure all are affected. Even if they get out early on,like a couple of months, trusting/loving/being loved men in relationships is going to be a huge issue - it will take a very special man to deal with it even if they don't know about the woman's past, which really limits there chances at good marriage etc. I think most just have no clue how it will affect them eventually, even those who never came across violence as such

^ this ^ completely

*this completely true I meant!

OP, did you not want to report the violent ones to police? is it because you knew from others' experience that police would ignore it? as you were registered officially as escort you could have said that sex as such wasn't on offer, maybe, but he took advantage - I mean did you think of doing that at least when you decided to get out?

I was registered as a dancer, although I never 'danced'. I really did want to report all of them, and I did actually report some of them - 2 out of the 3 worst ones I reported via third-party reporting to the police anonymously through my local sex work project. The third one I was too scared of recrimination as the guy in question was one I had refused to see numerous times due to his manner on the phone. Eventually when he did slip through the net he actually gloated with sick pride pretty much as soon as he walked through the door that he had changed sim cards and names 4 different times until the last time I didn't realise it was the same guy on phone. - talk about potential stalker. I continued cause I was so scared not to as he was in and the outside flat stairs/neighbours were not around. He spoke with a really scary chilling voice - hard to describe - he asked early on in the hour what are your limits , what will you not do then? so i told him and he proceeded to repeatedly try to do all of those things deliberately for an hour even though I was pushing him off of me pretty much the whole time. Yes, I really really regret not reporting that one. But at the time I was working alone and he obviously knew my work address and seemed the type to stalk and follow a woman home or something. But i dread to think that him and the many many many milder versions like him and also the underage seekers are probably out there now doing it to other women - both prostituted and also unsuspecting new partners. I feel really guilty about that. It makes me sick and guilty that I froze a lot of times and did nothing except very very meekly try to push them away. I did not fight ferociously which I feel I should have done. I think these are things a lot of women struggle with after rape. Hell, even writing that there I am still not able to really see it as rape because most of them paid me. jesus.