Leaving an emotionally abusive relationship - my story

[preciouslittlegems]

Sorry, this is long! I'm just not sure what to think about a conversation I had earlier with DH. He was not joking and this is set in the context of a relationship that has broken down and we no longer share a bedroom. He is bitter as he wants things to return to the way they were, for us both to compromise. I don't want to because he has been quite severely empotionally abusive and I don't want to get emotionally involved with him again, as I feel it is not a good place for me to be. I am being supported the local DV service because of the abuse. I am finding it really hard to leave the relationship because I don't know how he will react and today's conversation has made me even more uncertain (he has also threatened to kill himself many times).

I was preparing dinner with a sharp knife. He came up to me and told me not to stab him with it (he said the same thing last week). I took it as a joke and replied I'm not in the habit of killing people. He, speaking quite seriously, told me that he often thinks about killing people and asked if I do. I said no, of course not. He said he was surprised given the state of our relationship. He said he thinks less about stabbing people and more about suffocating and poisoning people. He said he lays awake at night thinking about it a lot. I was stunned at this point but decided to find out more. I asked if there was any one in particular he thought about killing (I could see where this was heading) and he said it was me he thought about, in particular poisoning. I calmly told him that he would go to prison and he said only if found out. I told him that he would be a prime suspect and he then went on a bit about things I do that upset him, including sharing with family and friends things he would rather I didn't (the abuse). I asked how he planned to poison me he said he wouldn't tell me because I would run off and phone someone and tell them. I asked if that was the only reason he wouldn't tell me, as I would not have a clue how to poison someone. He said that I have no idea what he knows and that he knows a lot more than I realise.

I sound very calm above but I don't feel it. This has freaked me out and is the reason I don't leave as I am unsure what he is capable of. He has mentioned poison to me a few times, e.g. told me there is poison in my cup of tea he has made me as he hands it to me (for no reason).

Am I being paranoid? Should I laugh it off? Am I unable to take a joke? He was definitely not joking but if I asked him about it again or involved other people, he would say I couldn't take a joke. He regularly makes really nasty comments to me. Since the incident he has been in a bad mood and barely talked to me apart from to shout a bit and criticise various things I have done and the state of the house.

I would just value any views. Do you think he has said this to frighten me to behave and be a proper wife again and not leave, or is there something more sinister to worry about? I feel this is the last straw but I am scared. I feel trapped.

With everything you do that was done for you by stbxh, you'll begin to reclaim your power and validate yourself, precious, and you'll reinforce what your recent ordeal, if not your years with stbx, has taught you, namely, you can 'do it if you need to'.

It seems that your ex too,yctmf, is a sociopath. They largely go undetected because they are able to ape the emotional behaviour of others by making all the right noises. In fact, some exhibit a 'caring' persona and work in caring professions. Underneath their outward persona, of course, they are devoid of feeling for anyone except themselves and they are manipulative.

The reason I formed the opinion that you were not in any immediate danger from your stbxh, precious, is that a sociopath rarely does anything that will compromise their freedom. That is not to say that, had he stumbled upon the perfect poison that cannot be detected post mortem, he wouldn't have made an attempt on your life but he would have needed to be 110% certain that he wouldn't be held to account before acting on any of the threats he made to you.

I can confidently predict that if your stbx finds another woman who believes he is all of the things you once believed him to be, he will walk away from the dc without a backward glance unless he considers it necessary to have contact with them to keep up the appearance of being a caring df.

You may benefit from counselling, but I would suggest you wait a while and continue with your diary as it help to heal you while giving you insight into what you need to do to ensure that you do not get taken in by another man who turns out to be not very different from stbxh.

I'm pleased to read that both of you were doing physical chores in the rain. As yctmf said, it is grounding and that's exactly what you need to anchor you in your new reality, precious.

It occurs to me that there is a lot of wisdom contained in this thread that will undoubtedly be of help to others. Do you now feel able to ask for it to be restored to the relationship board so that your inspiring story is not lost and can be continued?

I'm struggling a bit tonight. DS1 seems to be putting stbxh on a pedestal. He has been blaming me for the split and saying I should have stayed and did have a choice. I chose to break the family up. He was particularly bad last week and he hadn't seen XH for 3.5 weeks at that point. I organised with my BIL for both boys to have supervised contact with XH on Saturday (supervised by BIL). It seemed to go well, although DS2 wasn't keen to go and cried beforehand. He seemed fine when he returned. DS1 set up a Skype account for XH and has since been on Skype with him several times. This makes me uncomfortable because I walked in on him twice and saw XH there on the computer screen staring at me. Another time DS1 hastily shut down the computer window as I walked past. So DS1 has now firmly closed his bedroom door and it is a no-go zone for me now. Normally, I do respect his privacy, but we are fairly open about going into each other's rooms unless privacy is needed. I feel stbxh has now invaded the house and have been a bit upset.

Stbxh is racing through the divorce now at a remarkable pace. He has sent his financial disclosure to the solicitor and wants to get it all sorted ASAP with the minimum of solicitors bills. He wants to move on with his life. I'm not surprised about wanting to avoid solicitor's fees but am a little surprised about the hast with which he wants to move on. Might this indicate an OW?

Lastly, I will ask tomorrow for this thread to be moved back to the Relationships area. A number of MNers have said it would be useful to be placed back on there to help other people in my position. I will ask for the title to be changed to "Leaving an emotionally abusive relationship - my story".

Oh poor you, you're in the thick of it. Just remember that one day all this will be in past. Keep strong.

My dcs were really young at the time so much more accepting, but what was important to them was that mum was there and they felt loved no matter what. I don't think that much changes as you grow, it's still the basics isn't it?

Hugs x

Well Precious IzzyWizzy did say:

'If he doesn't latch on to some other poor sap soon I suspect that he'll launch a concerted campaign to woo/win you in early December.'

Maybe he has latched onto another woman fast? This good for you as we wont have the time or energy to harass you anymore than he has. He will be some other woman's nightmare then!

You are the nearest to your ds and he is angry at the situation and it is always the closest gets the blame...do you think ex may be priming ds with nonsense to persecute you via ds?

Hi Precious,

He's trying to hurt you. He knows it'll upset you to see him on Skype - although I would question whether this is viewed as 'unsupervised contact' and perhaps you shouldn't shut the door. It's your house, not his. If you want the door open, you should have it open.

He's speeding through the divorce in a kind of 'well she'll get what she wants then' kind of way. He knows you will have self doubt about it - look at you already thinking about.

Try to be as close to dcs as you possibly can. Don't let the grudges and sulks build up. Spend a lot of downtime with them. Have 'no internet' times when you know skype will be switched off.

I agree that Skype is unsupervised access and you should consider removing it from your DS's PC.

I admire you so much, stay strong :)

I simply don't know what to do about the Skype. DS1 was miserable last week and his main issue was that he hadn't seen his Dad in nearly 4 weeks. After meeting is Dad on Saturday, he has really cheered up. He is very determined that no one is going to stop him from contacting his Dad. He is annoyed about the CAFCAS process. I fear that if I deny him the Skype it will push him further away. He is 13..5. However, I have said I am not happy about it. It was arranged without my knowing and it is definitely unsupervised contact. I think I will contact my solicitor about this. Stbxh has effectively gone against the supervised contact agreement. I think that DS1 is sitting on his computer all night contacting XH in some way. I'm not sure how Skype works. I just went to close DS1's computer down and he rushed to take it off me. As I handed it to him I saw lots of Skype text from his Dad. I think he has now changed his password so that I can no longer access it.

Please also note that this thread will move back to relationships with a change of title tomorrow to prevent it being deleted after 30 days and to support others in a similar situation. It will be called "Leaving an emotionally abusive relationship - my story".

That's really tricky. I have a 13 year old too and if you take computers away they go nuts. Deffo talk to solicitor. Perhaps agree with ds to let him have 10 minutes a day but you have to be there?

More than likely DS will see through his Dad's motives eventually, but if he is being used by him it will hurt badly and you will have to pick up the pieces.

I must say that I feel very uncomfortable about XH "coming into my home" via Skype. It feels like an intrusion. I have asked DS1 to tell me when he is going to Skype his Dad and he has got a bit huffy and said that when his door is closed, don't come in. He was on Skype to him while I was upstairs and putting DS2 to bed. He could possibly hear me calling to DS2 and chatting. It feels wrong.

I've now composed a letter to my solicitor about this matter and will drop it off tomorrow.

I actually don't think XH is using DS1. I think he is lonely and wants to speak to him. He is in a big house all on his own a lot of the time (I believe). DS1 and XH appear to be communicating more than they did when he lived in the house with us! Maybe then it is not a bad thing but it does seem wrong when supervised contact has been agreed and I am receiving all sorts of assurances from his solicitors about this contact.

Depending how fast your solr will be in clarifying (and how reliable) you might want to post a new thread in Rels asking about Skype and contact generally - whether you can limit it by switching off the wifi and plugging your laptop into the router directly (not sure?) or what else can be done.

As you say it maybe a (surprisingly) accelerated "normality" whereby stbxh contacts his son, and doesn't bother you, and he maintains a relationship, although the healthiness of that rel should be questioned by CAFCAS, esp where mental health problems leading to threats to kill were admitted a month ago.

This is so tough, I feel for you, let me know what I can do...

My guess is that it's seen as contact - but the difficult thing is to get a 13 year old to understand it. It makes more sense to kids when there is a physical distance. It would have to come from DP to not make the contact but that would be difficult again.

In this particular case I'd be tempted to install some kind of monitor software (eg net nanny-type thing), so you can sort of 'supervise' without being there. However 13 year olds are very computer savvy so it might be tricky to do without him noticing, and it also depends whether you'd feel up to reading whatever your ex might say.

Hi Precious, have lurked for a while. No experience of skype and access, but with regard to speed of divorce, would like to add that stbxh did similar, and he HAD found another sap.....It probably didn't last, but it kept him out of the way at a crucial time. Fortunately didn't have dc at the time (not the case with currents stbhusb unfortunately).

You can get Skype recording software as well as keyloggers can advise if needed.

preciouslittlegems, were you on here a few weeks ago in the same situation? Almost identical?

Sorry if it is not you, but I remember at the time being shit scared for you.

It's a month-old thread, been moved back here from OTBT, so you might well recognise it. I was (possibly) even more scared as while I was reading it I realised I knew Precious, and was reading it 36 hrs late...

I'm so sorry to come to this so late, and to ask something so banal.

How old is your DS? I worry that your XH is manipulating him, brainwashing him as he did you.

You have to sit the boy down and explain why you had to leave, you have to make him understand the truth, that you, and your family were potentially at risk and that it's not acceptable to live like that.

you have to fight the forces of evil with love, respect and example. don't let your XH steal your son.

thinking of you and so glad you are out.

Hi - I've just logged in and saw some new posts. I took the DC away to my parents for half term. We had a lovely time and DS1 is more cheerful now. I'm at court on Monday to agree supervised contact with DC and XH. I am really not looking forward to seeing him for the first time. He will be charming, I am sure. CAFCAS are now involved and it looks like it will take some time to agree.

HerScaryness - DS1 (13 years old) knows exactly why I left XH. He had had enough at the time too but as soon as we left he found it all too much to cope with. He was miserable until he got to see XH (he had now seen him twice) and he Skypes him most days (although I don't know how long for). I have allowed the Skype to continue but have written and spoken to my solicitor to express my concerns over the Skyping and how it was arranged - through DS1 and not the solicitors. DS1 now tells me he is about to Skype XH and I stay out of the room. If I tried to stop it it would really distress DS1 and I feel this should be discussed on Monday, rather than me being the one to not allow the contact. CAFCAS can have their say on Monday in court. DS1 has assured me that he will immediately shut down Skype if XH's behaviour is inappropriate.

A further concern is that DS1 has now been diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome or ME. It has taken 1.5 years to finally get a diagnosis, so it is a relief in a way. I feel this has further implications. I have done some initial research and it seems that CFS has strong links to childhood emotional abuse. The CFS has had a major impact on DS1. He has had large amounts of time off school and his education is really suffering. Another reason why I should have left 2.5 years ago.

You've left now, though, so don't dwell on the past, that way madness lies and you'd also be missing all the great things about not having the abusive monster around any more. Guilt is much over-rated; try to keep it at bay.

I don't know about CFS, but there will be other reasons DS1 has it, too. There may be a correlation between CFS and childhood emotional abuse, but a correlation does not indicate cause and effect. It may be coincidence, a confounding variable, call it what you will, but links aren't causes. Don't beat yourself up about it, as again that way madness lies.

I think your DS is just hanging on to familiarity. Once he is more settled he will feel less need to skype your xh, may find that it's a nuisance doing so, may simply stop.

So glad you had a good break at your parents. Are they supportive?

Good luck on Monday. Do keep posting.

Hi Precious, if it is any consolation, the research supposedly showing a link between ME/CFS and childhood abuse was very poorly done, so basically this link as not been proven (and I think it is unlikely to be myself). So try not to worry about it. I am not writing under my usual username as didn't want to out myself.

Explanation (not sure if this is too technical)
To cut a long story short some people in high places came up with a new criteria of who could be considered to have CFS. The criteria was loosened to the extent of including people who did not have what most people would traditionally view as ME/CFS. The new criteria could include people with primary psychiatric disorders (and not ME/CFS) and it could include people with fatigue from stress or emotional problems (but not ME/CFS).

But not only did the new criteria include people without traditional ME/CFS in the studies, these cases could actually outnumber the ME/CFS cases in the study as fatigue from stress etc would be much more common than ME/CFS. This meant that any study using this criteria was slanted towards finding a link between "ME/CFS" (their version) and stress, emotional problems or childhood abuse. Basically they re-wrote history so that their studies would come up with the answers that they wanted to get. It is a bit of a case of lies lies and statistics. This criteria is not generally used or recognised internationally (it only appeared a few years ago) and I hope it dies the death as it is making a mess of research where it is used. There is a much better criteria which is the Candian or International criteria.

You can PM me if you have any questions. This group does a lot of work with young people www.tymestrust.org There is a lot of information on their website, and they have some practical ideas about how to deal with schools and so on.

That's an interesting reply lighteningstrike. Does that mean that the criteria currently used in the UK to diagnose CFS may be misdiagnosing people? Might some people be labeled with CFS who have psychiatric disorders? When I first asked my GP if DS1 might have (what I called) ME, he said that ME was effectively depression and treated in a similar way.

If there is a link between CFS and EA, I am not just interested from the point of view that the EA may have caused/contributed to the CFS. I am more interested in terms of DS's recovery. At the moment it seems unlikely that unsupervised contact will happen in the next few months, or even longer term but I want to ensure that, when it does happen, his recovery isn't delayed further. I guess that this is probably not relevant anyway because EA should not be allowed regardless of CFS. However, I need to facts to put before the court and to work out what is best for DS in terms of contact for his wellbeing.

Hi Precious, sorry I only saw your post now.

I forgot to say that the criteria I was giving out about is mostly used in the US, but another bad one (Oxford Criteria) has been in use by some doctors/psychiatrists in the UK for years. Misdiagnosis is definitely a problem.

Different doctors will be using different criteria in the UK (also elsewhere) to diagnose people with ME/CFS. So some will be diaganosing it accurately and some inaccuarately. I think there is a good chance that the average doctor would not know the ins and outs of different criteria's, or even that there are a few different criteria, never mind the arguments for or against any of them. I would also have a suspicion that some doctors are in reality diagnosing it based on a more vague gut instinct (which will sometimes be right or wrong).

How did your sons illness start? What are his symptoms?

< Might some people be labeled with CFS who have psychiatric disorders?>

Yes. I am not sure how often this happens with children, but it is definitely a problem with adults. This does make a bit of a mess with research (including treatment research).

With children sometimes the bigger problem can be that the ME diagnosis (or implications of it) might not be accepted by some doctors/psychiatrists/social workers etc. so that the child might end up with a misdiagnosis of a psychiatric condition and denial of the ME.

So I am afraid it can be a bit of a mess. Basically there can be a misdiagnosis of ME where it is a psychiatric problem, or a misdiagnosis of a psychiatric problem where it is ME. Of course some people could have multiple conditions.

Oh dear. It wouldn't make any sense to have another diagnostic category if they were the same. The main problem with this view is that in ME there is an abnormal reaction to exercise. In ME it usually makes the patient worse (strictly speaking, it is going over their toleration limit that makes the patient worse, but they might be able to do a little non-strenuous exercise), but in depression exercise often makes the person feels better. Many ME patients also react very badly to normal doses of anti-depressants.

There is a document here written by a psychiatrist which explains a bit the difference between ME and depression:

Assessment and Treatment of Patients with ME/CFS: Clinical Guidelines for Psychiatrists www.mecfs.org.au/media/resources/Article-ESteinPsychiatricCFSGuideline05.pdf

And another document here with information about symptoms cfids-cab.org/MESA/me_overview.pdf

I know there was a pediatric document produced so I will have a look for it.

I hope I am not overloading you with info, but I feel knowledge is power. If it is any consolation the prognosis in children for ME/CFS seems to be a lot better than for adults.