here we go. i knew it wouldnt take long....(long post!)

[ThatVikRinA22]

I have a very complex background, but to cut a long story short i have recently got in touch with my brother after about 12 years.

We had a very very bad upbringing. we were neglected and abused. i ended up in and out of care, he ended up homeless and on heroin.

i escaped our abusive parents at 15, married at 19, and have built a wonderful life for myself, with lovely DH and my two much loved children. I feel very guilty that i left my brother there, but i honestly thought he would be ok, they were very different with him while i was there. It seems when i left he got it, (then when he left, our mother got it)

My brother has only recently managed to turn his life around, but is doing very well, is off drugs, married, and has a child whom he appears to dote on. He admits he still has some issues around alcohol and cannabis.He has been nothing but honest with me.

we havent met up yet, as he is undergoing chemo treatment for hep c, but the plan is to meet up at some point. We do speak on the phone. I am being very careful, and am mindful of my job (i am a police officer)

Up until now, the subject of our "parents" hasnt really come up, though i am aware that our father (my step father to be precise) is dead and our mother now lives alone. My brother has chosen to stay in touch with her. I cut contact many years ago and am all the better for it - i did try for years to engage with her - but she is hard as nails, bitter, has a sense of entitlement that galls me and takes no responsibility for our past, and basically when i had contact with them both, i got very ill with panic attacks - when i cut contact they stopped. That says it all really.

My mother (and step thing) emigrated and never bothered to get in touch - i went on to move house and change my phone number.

i did find out when he (step thing) died, and my mother apparently then came back to live in the uk.

My brother says that she was very angry with me.

Anyway - i spoke recently to my brother who states that she is not averse to making contact with me. (ha ha ha fucking ha.)

he says she sends her best. (whatever the fuck that is)

he appears to want me to bury the hatchet, and appears to think i should be grateful that she wants some contact or something. he reckons he has dealt with his demons, and im very pleased for him, but the truth is that my life has been so much easier, calmer, nicer, without her in it. She will not tell me who my father is, and i cant forgive her for the things she put me through as a child.

I want a relationship with my brother. i want to meet his child and wife.

But now, with this rearing its head so quickly into our relationship - well i am a little spooked.
would you continue down this path?
would you continue to try and build some kind of relationship with my brother?
Would you give this woman a chance?
i dont want to end up feeling sorry for her, and i will, i always did, she is manipulative, and i have no doubt now, that she probably cuts a fairly pathetic figure - brother says she is an alcoholic.
but really - i feel like i got past all this and now.....i just dont need it. I have been so strong for so long, and i dont want that to waiver.

im sorry for the length of this post....and thanks if you got this far! i just want to hear what others think.
DH says i must do what i want, and truth is i would love to know who my father is, yet she always held this over me, and would never divulge even the smallest details, i dont even have a name., but i think she likes the sense of power and i dont want to give her that, i want to be free of how i felt all those years ago.

i guess my options are to back away completely from the whole lot of them.
to state clearly that i dont want contact with my mother
or to bite the bullet and allow contact with them all.

thoughts please....

Sorry, haven't read all of the posts. Keep mother and him separate. Start getting to know your brother again and if he feels that he wants to talk to you about mother, then let him. However, make it clear to him that you have no interest in burying the hatchet with mother. Ever.

Never make the same mistake twice (especially when concerning family members)

vicar, well done on your success at life since esacping.

Just think though..would you want this woman anywhere near your children after the crap she put you through?

The last thing you or your family need is this evil person manouvering(sp?) their way into your happy family life and ruining it for you all

Good luck whatever you decide. But please ensure you stay happy, and if that means repulsing any contact she tries to make then so be it.

escaping..doh!

Vicar my heart goes out to you.

"I mended me" has brought tears to my eyes.

I think that some counselling would be good, just to set you back on track.

This is NOT YOUR FAULT. I totally understand why you let your brother back in. It's hard when you don't have family on your side. Of course your mother wants the past in the past - she will not admit what she did or what she let happen to you. You can have empathy for her childhood etc BUT that doesn't make what happened to you right or your fault.

You know all this but sometimes we get thrown off track and we wobble - you just need a little help to get your inner strength again. You can recognise that your brother is not a strong as you, so he can't see what you can BUT that doesn't mean you have to tolerate any communication with you mother for HIM. You only need to do what's best for YOU and your lovely DH and DC.

I understand the difficult emotions when you don't know who your father is. My mother abandoned me at 3 months, leaving me with my GM. She then spent the next 13 years coming in and out of my life. All this time no one told me who my dad was. I learnt that I shouldn't ask and I was only told after he had killed himself when I was 13. So I know a name. I know he had 5 other children with his wife (had affair with my mum). His wife has even spoken with me, telling me that she would rather her DC didn't know about me. Fair enough, it would solve nothing by making them feel even more pain regarding their dad. I sometimes wonder if I ever stood next to him in the street and I wonder that about my half-siblings too.

Sorry didn't mean to ramble - just wanted to show that I can empathise with some of what you are going through. I won't go on about the couple of attempts I had years ago to have some sort of relationship with my mother - you wouldn't believe the way they can re-write history (but I know you would, as yours has already done that to you).

Be gentle with yourself and let you DH support you as he has done in the past.

I am really, really sorry that this has happened Vicar. Poor you. I have seen your posts about your ghastly childhood on Mn before, and they have always chilled me and made me admire you hugely for getting the hell out, making your life a success and your recent copper training.

I completely understand how unbearable and out of control you find this situation, and the sadness you feel at now knowing your father, and the fact that ypu will never have a normal mother (to cut a long story short, I escaped a horrible abusive household (my gran), was in foster care briefly, I no longer speak to my (professional victim and vile) mother, and haven't a clue who my dad is (mum refuses to say). It is horrible, and as soon as you think you have escaped the shit, something comes from noweher and pulls you back down (mentally) into the mire.

I get the impression that you feel guilty about leaving your brother there when you ran away, please don't do that, it wasn't your fault at all, your vile parents simply lost their whipping boy when you ran away. There was nothing you could have done about it - you had to get out of there to save yourself.

You have done simply everything you can for your brother - howevere it seems pretty obvious that he hasn't the mental capacity (I don't mean to be rude) to deal with your parents the way you have. He is simply taking the path of least resistance as that is probaboy the only way he can deal with the past. He probably has a vision of having a family reunion, everything will be all roses in the garden, and it will all end up happily ever after. However, you have the knowledge to realise that this will NEVER happen, your mother is such that it is probably impossible to have a relationship with her. She will never take responsibility for what happened.

I don't know that your brother will be able to accept the boundaries that you have imposed - no matter how bluntly you tell him he will probably still show photos, talk about you, pass on info (I totally understand how boilingly angry this makes you btw). If I were you I would probably distance myself from your brother temporarily, to give you some time to think clearly about this without it descending into a row (of which your mother will end up being party of).

I don't know if your mother will ever tell you info about your father - I doubt it. She has an unbelieveably powerful secret and she is probably likely to dangle that carrot for as long as she can. I have had to accept that I will probably never have a clue who my father is, my mum won't tell me, and there is no other way to find out. I wish she would tell me though, the sense of loss on having a horrible mother and unknown father is very difficult to deal with, and doesn't really get easier imo.

I hope you feel better soon. Take care.

Hope you had a better day today Vicar. You have been through a hell of a lot.

I really think, if i was you, i would not let that woman back in your life again. She is an alcoholic, you say, so that would bring you added pressure and stress right now, on top of everything else. You have been far happier without her in your life than with her in it.

Maybe in the future who knows? But they say any man can be a Dad, but it takes a special man to be a Daddy. The same is true for Women. She is your mother but she didn't protect you. She can't expect to resolve this in an instant.

hi again,

thank you everyone for such kindness and understanding.
I have been out today and had a lovely day with DD, treated her to some new clothes, sorted out her christmas list and treated myself to some lovely new make up and perfume, maybe im trying to pamper myself better....

anyway, i am feeling a little calmer. I haven't replied and the world hasn't ended. I do need to find the right way to speak with my brother, but when i have tried to speak in any depth to him about things he tends not to listen. I do think that years of drug addiction and alcohol dependency have killed a few brain cells - he seems quite a hippy and i do not doubt that all he wants is to play happy families, and probably for the right reasons.

Ive noticed over the recent weeks that my mother was making more and more comments on his facebook profile - as if she wanted me to know she was around. I have been naive in thinking she would respect my wishes - it was my choice to cease contact before - i did send a letter but i think she had emigrated before she got it.

im still mulling it all over. im finding it difficult because i am recalling some horrific instances that haven't entered my mind for some time. He killed my pets. I only remembered that today. I am transported back to the absolute lowest ebb of my life, and it was sustained, prolonged, unending misery. At 12 the gp warned my parents (!) that i was on the verge of a nervous breakdown before i hit my teens. I tried to take my own life in childish clumsy ways twice. Its painful to recall and almost embarrassing.

I had some more training back in the summer, and part of that was more on DV, and we were shown letters written by children in DV situations. And i froze, because i wrote those same letters, i wrote one to my DS (the one who died) and i still have it (she had kept it and when i cleared her flat after her death i found it )- and it was the exact same format, the childish writing and the spelling mistakes, but the content was the same as what i was reading on a large projected screen in a classroom with 14 other police officers. I was text book. The letter on screen could have been mine, and it hit me again that i really was a victim of abuse, and despite not being believed back then - it was true. There will be records, because i was examined by a doctor who found injuries, we were both on the at risk register and i was placed into care while investigations were done - so there must be records despite being told that they are not kept beyond X amount of years....maybe i do need to see those files but maybe it will anger me.

Things keep popping into my head. Things that dont belong in my life now.

I have no wish to be cruel to my mother. i really dont. i think i am going to look into counselling because its obvious that im not completely ok with it, more that i choose not to think about it and get on with my life, which is good, and i can honestly say that since i have had no contact with her my life improved and how i feel improved.

Now i need to relay this to my brother in a way he can understand. He has only ever had her side. He would have been too young to remember most of what happened to me. He doesnt seem to want to dwell on the past either and hasnt told me much of what happened to him, i know he was out early like i was, and i do feel dreadful that he lived in a tent for years on a piece of common ground when he was an addict. I know that he wressled with all kinds of identity issues, i know he thought he was gay for a long time, he cross dressed for a time, and he was on heroin for 10 years, thats one hell of a pain killer. Compared to how he could have turned out he has done well and i do feel guilty for leaving him - there is a good 10 year age gap between us though and i really thought they were different with him. I spent years thinking it was just me, when obviously any target would do for my step father.

what a mess.

Do take care,be clear on your own needs and boundaries.you're a survivor,badges and everything to prove it. So look for resolution that doesn't hurt you

I really hope that you can have some counselling - I hope that it helps you, stuff like your childhood can come vomiting up and overwhelm you, espeically doing the job yiou are doing. Can you access this from work do you think?

I don't undertstand facebook but can you do something so you don't see your mother's profile at all? Having that in your face must make you feel rotten.

I am so sorry about your pets. That is an absolutely horrible thing to have experienced, I feel so sorry for that poor child who used to be you. Please (easier said than done) try and feel so proud of having survived, and being a success and you have broken the chain of misery, and are a loving wife and mother. That is an amazing and wo0nderful thing for you to have achieved.

Please don't let yourself face any more pain - I know you feel sorry for your brother, but bloody hell he is acting very selfishly (not deliberately I don't think) and that way lies madness.

I think that having contact with your mum will bring you nothing but heartache. Especially as your brother describes her as an alcoholic. By their very nature, alcoholics are unpredictable and volatile. However, you need to face the fact that she will not be around forever (female alcoholics have far shortened life expectancy for a start). You need to think how you will feel if she dies and you didn't make contact. I say this as a very close family member died of alcoholic poisoning. I spent many years bing very angry with her but when she died, the anger evaporated. I felt guilt and sorrow for her for what she became. In your shoes I think I would tell your brother that you thank her for her kind words and sincerely wish well for her. I would then tell him that as much as you want to build a relationship with him, it has to be based on him accepting that you do not want to see or speak about your mother.

I am not trying to make you feel guilty - you have no reason to. Just be prepared for the day you hear she is no longer here. My experience of dealing with an alcoholic is heartbreaking. You can't do anything to help her, she must help herself. Until that time, even if she genuinely wanted a good relationship with you, she isn't capable of it. Sorry it's so long. Xxx

i think i can access counselling through occupational health - the only snag with it is that OH head quarters is a LONG way from where i live, but i may just have to bite the bullet and phone them.

I did try private counselling when she emigrated, did it through Relate, but they seemed to want rid of me fairly quickly, think i only got about 3 sessions before they told me i was sorted and would i stop going because i was only paying £25 when they really wanted £40....i was part time back then, it was all i could afford - i recall you were meant to pay a contribution but there was no fixed fee - but obviously they wanted people who were paying top dollar.

anyway, i will look into it.

Im just going to try and give myself a break, i dont have to do anything with that message, the world wont stop if i just ignore it. Im wondering if i can send by brother a message just setting out my position,

i thought about her viewing my FB profile and photos, and i dont know why im getting so steamed up about that - so what if she looks really, she can press her nose up to a (very small) window on my life, it doesnt mean im letting her in through it.

I cant see her profile - its private and im not her fb friend. I can see the comments she makes on DBs profile, and she can send me msgs without being a FB friend. She can obviously see my comments on my Dbs profile, but im going to stop commenting on anything (i rarely do anyway - he puts some inane drivel on there!)

If DB gives her my phone number i will not feel remotely bad about cutting contact with them all there and then, i must stop panicking because i am still in control of this and i have to remember that. If they force my hand i will back off.

imjustagirl - i know, and i do think about that, and i do feel sorry for her, but she hasnt approached me with any kind of message that makes me feel any differently. It was so bright and breezy it galled me, i mean what does she want me to say? really? and i know that feeling sorry for her is a dangerous position to be in - ive done it before. i really dont want to hurt her, or be cruel, but i think i just want to be left alone by her now.
She cut her mother out of her life. she never looked back. she never gave them a chance. why should i be different to her?

i should say Db also tells me he is an alcoholic. the more i type the more i think i have been quite stupid.

You are an adult with a very supportive husband. You are not the child she pushed about. You just need very clear boundaries with your brother. Perhaps he was guilted into giving you your mum's message and will actually appreciate some boundaries. Obviously the fact he is in contact with yOur mum complicates your relationship, but time will tell if he can separate the two. I think men are better at this than women. Wishing you all the best. X

I know what it is to be told that you should have been aborted & not loved. I witnessed the relationship she had with my siblings & it far excelled the one she had with me!

Vicar, not only did you mend you, but you broke the cycle. You have worked bloody hard not to become what your mother was & as my councillor told me, that takes courage & strength & a great character!

So you can do this.

Keep breaking the cycle.

Be strong.

Just read the bit about your brother being an alcoholic - I think you know that means that the relationship you can have with him while he is still drinking can only be very limited at this time.

I wouldn't waste your sympathies on your mother tbh - yes she has probably had a difficuly life, but she has made her choices in life, and she made the choice to let you down. I personally wouldn't answer the message as I think it would be a bad idea for you to enter into any dialogue with her at all . You really seem to be in a very vulnerable place at the mo with all the memories etc and think it wouldn't do you any good tbh.

You haven't been stupid, you are human, and want to have a loving relationship with your brother. I don't think it sounds as if he has been malicious, just naive and hasn't (or is unable to) think it through. Please be firm with him as much as you can and make it very clear that yoy do not want him to pass info on, that is as much as you can do I think.

well done for breaking the cycle!! you are brave and strong. your dc's will be proud of you when they grow old enough to know all of this.

Imjustagirl is right that the only person who can really help an alcoholic is the alcoholic him/herself. You cannot do it so for heaven's sake don't feel that you should or could - you can't. Furthermore, you will only damage yourself if you have contact with her, so don't and don't waste time or energy feeling that you have an alternative, because you don't. No contact at all if you value yourself, your dh and your kids, which we all know you do. OK, that's established and you can push any thoughts on that score out of your head.

I am horrified at the few things you have posted about from your childhood. You are quite extraordinary, having got through that and made the life you have. Many, many congratulations.

Now things are resurfacing. This is quite normal and inevitable, I think. Also healthy. You do need to deal with the past rather than hide from it. This will make you much more free and much more able to deal with things which could be thrown at you out of left field, both in your personal life and in your working life.

I do truly and earnestly believe that counselling would be so good for you now. You have pushed all this stuff into a room and locked the door, but you have always known it was there, have done a brilliant job with yourself, but I think recent events have been a catalyst and brought it out. I think you will need help to take it out and look at it, and then to chuck it away. I think this is what you need to do, and the fact that you are now remembering things which you had forgotten completely indicates to me that you are actually ready to look at it squarely and get it finished and done with. But - and it's a big but - don't try to do it by yourself, don't try to soldier on alone, get yourself to a professional who will help you and support you through the process.

Vicar, you are another of those extraordinary people whom I come across occasionally on MN for whom I have nothing but admiration, who make me stand in awe before them. You.

Dear Vicar,
Different is so right - keep breaking the cycle. You are not and do not need to be part of their circle of blame and distress. If you step away from them I'm sure you see yourself for what you are - a strong, intelligent, brilliant being.
Step away
xx

imjustagirl - youre right. and yes he is still drinking and he still smokes pot. So far our relationship has just been over FB, a few phone calls, we agreed a tentative meeting next month before this thing with my mother came up.

He seems very insecure and if i dont get in touch for a while he msgs me asking if he has offended me or whatever. i feel he could be quite needy and quite hard work. It will probably be better to maintain the relationship we have at present - ie - distant and by phone/internet.

differentnameforthis - thank you. im trying, i really am. i take comfort in the knowledge that my family life is "normal" and my kids have a stable and loving home which is far removed from what mine was. I think thats why when i feel sucked back down it comes as a shock.
but i wont be going backward.

blimey the thread keeps moving before i hit the post button,

jux thank you for your wise and very kind words, and i think you are probably right about the counselling - i need to get off my backside and sort that out i think. Im fairly sure i can arrange it through work without the need for anyone to know anything about it. It is time i rid myself of the rubbish i carry around.

During training for the police one week we did some really heavy stuff - all week something hit a nerve, one day was child abuse, the next DV, the next sudden death and by the Wednesday i was in need of a chat to one of the lovely tutors....because i have been touched by all of that at some point - i was ok and i didnt cry or anything but i did need to talk to someone - and the tutor was lovely and said i had taken the lid off the box, and that i needed to find a way of putting the lid back on.

and i thought i had done that. actually i think i did do that - but maybe what i really need is not to just put the lid back on - to empty it out, sort through it and chuck it. makes sense now. i find it very hard to talk about my childhool - i have written things on here that ive not breathed a word of to anyone - even DH.
thank you.

tell you what else - my way of coping (much as now) was to write things down. i had a book, and when he had hurt me i used to write it all down, all my anger, i had to get it out of my system and with no one to talk to i used to vent it all in this little book and then i would hide it in a cupboard. it was my secret and i knew i had to hide it.

one day my mother found it. she read it.
she waited for me to get home from school. she was so angry with me. she asked me what it was. i choked. she asked me if she should show it to my step father. she knew i was teriffied of him because she had read it. she knew it was a threat. she asked me again. i shook my head and with that she threw it on the fire as if that was doing me a favour, preventing him from seeing it.

that book had been my life line. it kept me sane. and she read every detail of the abuse in it, threatened me and then burned it. She cant ever pretend she didnt know what was going on, she just chose to pretend it wasnt.

i had nothing after that. i couldnt even risk writing it down, unless it was a letter to one of my banned relatives and i knew she wouldnt see it.

i dont think i can ever have any contact with her. he was so vile and she was complicit in everything. she cant pretend she wasnt.

Fucking hell, Vic, there are just no words. I want to second everything that Jux has said- you have my utmost admiration and respect. I am stuck for the right thing to say without sounding corny, but I wish I could reach through the screen and give you a massive hug. That is corny, but fuck it.

I was just going to suggest that writing it down might be a good idea. Expressing things in any way you can is cathartic.

I have friend with awful MH problems due to some things from her childhood (not as bad as you, but similar). She's a very talented painter but was told about 20 years ago that she should stop painting as it "brought it all out" which, apparently was a bad thing. She's been on every anti-dep drug there has ever been, as well as some other things, and has simply got worse, less able to cope with RL, spending days and days very single month in bed completely unable to move, and sometimes not able to speak. She's a single mum, so there's no one at home to help her except her child (who has done a great job).

I have been urging her to paint again since she said she was tempted to do it. 6 months ago she came off all her pills. 3 months later she was painting. She feels like a different woman, she acts like a different woman and almost looks like a different woman. She's getting her childhood out and onto canvas and it's really making her feel better. Her paintings are fantastic, I love them.

If you name a thing, describe a thing, you no longer need to be so afraid of it. Doesn't necessarily get it sorted, but it's a step in the right direction.

Keep posting if it helps.

thank you. these inane ramblings are helping massively - i feel more 'free' to 'speak' on here, i can barely say some things but typing isnt saying - it helps so much and im finding it very cathartic and its helping firm up in my own head what im doing and whether its right. (which it is)

thank you, all really. best try and get some sleep - i was awake in the early hours this morning which i am sure is no accident - tomorrow i need to be up to get the car into the garage so im going to attempt to switch off now and get some sleep (which didnt work last night but surely i cant have two sleepless nights in a row - hopefully)

you really have all helped me so much and im really grateful. x