After divorce, trying to move on is like doing a square dance with both feet tied together. Update.

[Wisedupwoman]

First came to MN (a life-saver) in March:

Then DH, now XH (very quick divorce) was into second OW which I found out through his deceitful, sloppy and disgusting attempts to take the cowards way out. Could not believe the man I loved for 20 years had spent 4 years lying and cheating his way through life and who then went on to try and manipulate all our DC's (and still is, divorce doesn't change anything).

We are now into mediation, I have a sol who is waiting in the wings to advise on settlements. I have, despite all the turmoil, secured a better job on higher salary and our DD has a place at 6th form. XH has been living with OW since he left, and I went no contact within 2 weeks of his leaving. He hates this as he is unable to control the situation so interrogates DC's - my adult DS's have cut him out, yet XH still tries with eldest DS, who finds it hard not to feel sorry for XH despite his awful behaviour. All our friends have cut XH out, none of them liked him it turns out and his colleagues have long called XH 'the artful dodger'. So this was a man who led a double life and I have been trying to come to terms with this and move on.

This thread is about that - trying to move on and deal with the reality that whilst I am trying to hold my chin up and tits out, XH is going to be a part of my life through our DD whether I like it or not.

I want to give my heartfelt thanks and gratitude to everyone who has thus far been so wonderful and unstinting in their MN support for me - who have walked the journey with me even in the midst of their own sadness.

Yes they are and they're managing to sort out the settlement amiccably between them. I've landed myself a mature and thoughtful fella who can show some respect for himself and other people.

Maybe you're right about waiting to have a final ending dialogue with ptm. I feel it will be the right thing to do to draw the line under a huge part of my past.

Another thought though.

I'm not interested in any kind of post mortem on the why's and wherefores with ptm. My aim would be to close the book for me. He's moving back here and in my town nowhere is very far from anywhere so we're very likely to bump into each other. What he'll know about me is he should get over it, as I have.

It seems to me that it would be a tad premature to initiate any 'final' written or spoken dialogue while you're still embroiled in matters related to your divorce.

Given your lack of direct communication with him and the information he will have gleaned from your dc, no doubt ptm is aware that you have drawn a line under the part of your past that included your relationship with him and have, in effect, closed the book on those chapters in which he once prominently featured.

In the event that you encounter him as you make your way around town, the mere fact that you'll be able to say an indifferent hello and goodbye without hissing/spitting will be a more meaningful message than any that is conveyed with deliberate intent, so to speak.

If you were to do otherwise, I suspect that ptm would see it as a golden opportunity for him to conduct a post mortem and you'd most probably have to listen to or read a tedious monologue on the subject of how much he loved and adored you, was weak and foolish, didn't know what he was doing, mid-life crisis, hopes you haven't judged him harshly, will always be friends (i.e if you open the door, he'll be in like Flynn), blah de fucking blah, or he'll grovel in a puddle of tears at your feet for another chance citing some of the above and a lot more horse shite that he'll manufacture on the spot.

As bad as the above would be, infinitely worse is hearing someone who's put you through the hell of abandonment telling you how they just don't do marriage/commitment but you'll always be the one, and I wouldn't put it past ptm to resort to that hackneyed script.

He may have trampled all over you and put you through the wringer, but he's been unable to hang you out to dry and I suggest you let that realisation fully dawn on him by getting your absolute before you deliver any spoken or written coup de grace.

IMO, at some level or other, we all know everything there is to know about others especially those that we are, or have been, close to. IME this can render some of our more usual channels of communication redundant, as all we need to do is put our thought or thoughts 'out there' in the sure and certain knowledge that they'll find their way to the intended recipient.

Why not test my theory and send him your thoughts through the cosmos before you consider sending them by more conventional means?

I've got a notebook where I jot down thoughts I don't want to lose. A couple of pages are turned over to "things I would ask XH if I ever thought he'd tell the truth". They're all questions that used to burn me when I was trying to decide whether splitting could be justified according to my own beliefs. However I realise they never will be answered, at least honestly (he'll laugh, make up some mad story or say he doesn't know, probably in a silly voice). Frustrating but that's the bottom line of it. I prefer not to see or speak to the bugger anyway, as his mere presence - usually outside in his car, after knocking on the window, to talk to the DCs - makes me itch. But if I could get him alone in a cellar with a needleful of sodium pentothal...

You may be overlooking the fact that delicious drugs such as sodium pentathol make telling the truth an extremely pleasant experience, Annie

To obtain full, frank, and entirely honest answers to your questions all you'll need in your cellar are strong shackles, a bright light, and a rusty saw or, if you prefer to be less than hands on, an electric jigsaw

Been away a bit and discussion seems to have moved quickly from musings on "closure" and truth to suggestions of torture techniques!

It's like an evening of trashy American TV! (In the nicest possible way).

Well I did have a few fantasies in that vein round about the time of the divorce, izzy, but decided I'd better not as the DCs wouldn't like it.

Suspect that PTM would not be a helpful participant in a "closure"-type discussion.

PTM: "I luuuuuuurve you wisey, made a massive mistake, I'm poor and miserable, we were legendary, you know you won't find anyone to rival what we had, DD would love it, no-one but you will find my missing socks, blah blah blah"

Wisey: "that's a shame, but feel it's time for us each to move on, complete the divorce etc"

Ptm: "oh no sweet maid, I cannot divorce you for I have no trousers to put on"

Solicitor: "stump up the cash PTM!"

PTM quivers, weeps and drools about his misery and fashion dilemmas.

PTM says "Hellooooo gorgeous, fancy being my new OW?

It seems to me that it would be a tad premature to initiate any 'final' written or spoken dialogue while you're still embroiled in matters related to your divorce.

izzy only a matter of days after you've posted those uncannily near the mark thoughts, this -

DD has just told me over a meal out together that since before Christmas she and her fucking arsehole of a father DF have been in contact with the academy that he was promising to send her to (away from home, near him and OW) last year which also costs money (quite alot) for her to board at. She has been offered a place there.

I was speechless and I'm furious at the pair of them - him for capitalising on her naivety and manipulating her so extremely that she took my reaction as a mark that I'm scared of losing her to him. And I'm furious with her for going along with it without talking to me. She refuses to believe that he and I are not in a position to fund this place, and god only knows what he's been telling her but it adds up. All that talk about being skint, moving into a shit bedsit "for you DD" has been a smokescreen it seems to me. Of course as soon as she's safely ensconced up there he doesn't have to pay maintenance, will have no reason to pay the mortgage, and that's why he's been so slow in making the disclosure (as well as all the other reasons no doubt).

I dropped her off at his b&b so they can talk about how unreasonable I am and he can tell her not to worry it'll all work out how they want it to once 'your DM has calmed down'.

I can't believe it, I really can't!

Believe it, wisey - leopards never change their spots and ptm has no intention of changing his pants -attitude-.

Any chance dd could get a scholarship or bursary award to attend the academy?

Sorry, Wisey, can't give any good advice. But didn't want you to go without a reply. I have been following your threads since the beginning and I remember similar activity from PTM some time ago. I can imagine how blindsided and hurt you must feel. Can he actually do this? Are the funds there to send her to boarding school or is he just bluffing to upset the apple cart as it were?

Vile.

What does your SOL say? Surely DD can't go without your consent?

Your dd has behaved v badly too, can only imagine the shit ptm has been spinning. Hope she sees sense soon.

Really, really sorry wisey.

You'll find a way through this. He's not got the better of you.

I don't know what my sol will say as it only came to light this evening.

But I think this time I'm going to tell her to do what she has to do. She's at an age where she can leave home if she wishes to and I can't stop her if she isn't putting herself at risk. In the meantime I shall pursue my settlement as quickly as possible. Since I shall be losing a large part of the income which comes from him I shall maybe have more of a case for the entire equity of the house to buy myself somewhere rather than rent. I'm tired of fighting and maybe she should just go and find out for herself what living away from home at her age is like.

And maybe this is the carrot that ptm will go for to get on with ending it. I'm just so disappointed in DD. I don't care what she tells herself about why she couldn't say anything before now (i.e. she knew I'd react like this - like hell she did, I'd have calmly told her the financial facts and nothing more but ptm has been working on her, clearly).

So I guess she has gone to bed with a guilty but nevetheless resolute conscience that she's going. Well, she's not going to get a fight from me. I've had enough. Thanks all for your support. I'll be ok, I know I will.

O wisey, wisey, wisey - and this is the twunt man you were intending to bid a civilised adieu to?

The problem is that he's not civilised, is he? In fact, the fucker would make the wildest savage look like the epitome of an officer and a gentleman.

Purely in order to wound you emotionally and hurt you financially, the lowdown piece of gobshite started doing a number on your poor dd last year by filling her head with thoughts of studying at this exorbitant fee-paying academy which - oh so coincidentally - just happened to be close to where he was living with ms feckless breeder his ow and which, if she were to attend, would oh so coincidentally mean that he could stop paying the mortgage on his former marital home.

Please, please, don't blame your dd for any of this, wisey. Think of it this way; despite the fact that you were a fully fleged adult when you met him, ptm sure did a damn fine number on you. You never saw it coming and your poor young dd hasn't stood a chance - at her age, would you have believed that a father could be capable of what hers has done, and is doing, to her?

If you get angry with her, you'll be playing straight into his hands because she, poor love, is the only way he can get at you - and he would love nothing better than to know he's been able to cause discord between mother and daughter from a distance.

Give your dd an humungous cuddle, tell her you're so sorry that she's been caught in the flak from the ending of her parents' marriage, tell her that you so wish you could afford to send her to this fancy school, tell her you're sorry that she felt she had to keep her hopes and plans under wraps but you understand why she felt she had no choice - and tell her you love her to pieces.

Believe me, she needs all the love and reassurance she can get, especailly at those times when she's behaving like a stroppy little madam and, effectively, giving you the finger.

When she gets uppity, put a soppy smile on your face and say 'o I love you so much dd, you mean the world to me and I will miss you soooo much when you have flown the nest' and wipe a tear from your eye because that time is not far off and you will miss her like hell when she flaps her wings and takes to the sky.

And now back to the twunt who has returned to a squalid bedsit meagre twig not far from your lavish nest. You've seen his game and it's down to you to raise yours - and make fucking sure that a twig is all he's ever going to be able to afford unless he manages to trick some other poor woman into giving it all up for luurrve.

If you succeed in getting all of the equity in the house, is there any chance you afford the mortgage for a year or so by getting a couple of lodgers in because it would be a most fitting farewell to ptm if you were able to continue gaily living in what he no doubt thinks of as his house while he lives in squalor? I can almost hear the gnashing of his dentures teeth as I type

Fantastic script, Dozer. I wanna make you an offer you can't refuse and use it in my forthcoming production 'Mumsnet the Musical'

Fancy collaborating on a set piece? We'll only need a small cellar to take out saffy, annie, and wisey's twunts for rehearsals.

I've been practising and I can now convincingly loom menancingly without props

He really is a piece of work isn't he?
When you have calmed down you need to talk to your DD. Point out that she has already started sixth form (I believe this is correct?) and so will effectively be throwing away one year. Talk to her about settling in to sixth form, and getting to know new teachers, and ways of working. Then give her the financial facts, that you cannot afford to help fund this academy. Also ask her about what financial support he is offering her for university.
Then make it clear, you will not stop her, you may think it is the wrong decision but she is an adult now and has to make her own decisions, but also that financially you can't (won't) help fund this.
Good luck!

Wow, amazing izzy and mummytime. On the money, as always.

Actually I sat up and wrote her a letter which pretty much says what you've both advised. She has read it and come to me for a hug and to tell me she's confused. I am still very upset at what effectively is a repeat of last year's 'dance' with her dad which now includes DD as an active participant so I just said it's fine there's no need for confusion. I guess she expected me to say she couldn't go and I haven't but I've made it abundantly clear that I shall be seeing my sol about this new turn of events and I shall be continuing my fight to get what is a fair share of the marital pot. I've said that if this takes even more time now that her DF has changed the game (again) then she will have to wait - unless it turns out that he DOES have money set aside after all. All this boils down to one thing really. I can't go on protecting her from her DF's conniving ways, she will have to discover for herself what he is really like.

A quick browse of the property sites in my area shows I can buy a 1 bedroom flat with a smallish mortgage. I'll be in touch with my sol today if possible.

As i lay awake last night going over it I thought that ptm must really hate me for not playing the game according to his rules. But then I realised that he doesn't hate me because I don't think he's capable of genuine emotions, good or bad. I don't think he feels anything at all, it's merely what one does when there's an absence of conscience and a consuming sense of entitlement that the world revolves around onesself. I believe it's called Narcissism.

Right, I've been back over the last few posts and (belatedly) LOL'd at the idea of waterboarding ptm. Dozer you should be a script-writer .

Bursary? Yes, that's absolutely possible but if they're means-tested I doubt whether she'll get one as on his own ptm earns alot of money and together we are the 'squeezed middle class'. having said that even if she does get a bursary I still lose all the maintenance and ptm would have a strong case for not paying a mortgage on a property he no longer has any interest in (well, that's my best guess based on my scant knowledge of the law).

Izzy ptm isn't going to move into a squalid bedsit. Now the decision is made he has no need to be here and every reason to find himself somewhere near the uni he teaches at and near where DD will be living. I can see his game, it's very clear, but I will keep my mind on the task at hand which is to drive my stilletto into his flaccid groin (metaphorically speaking unfortunately).

it feels very strange and unsettling to think how much this last year has changed the course of all our lives. My family has altered so much that I barely recognise it even though we still have each other. It makes me sad to think that whereas I had been thinking of a place for me and DD now I am thinking of me finding somewhere primarily for myself.
It's such a wrench especially as it's happening in this way.

Where does this leave me and NM? I don't know tbh. Alot of words have been spoken about a future together as his DC's are at a similar point and he is preparing to try and agree a selling price and financial split with his stbx. But they are only words and I have come to realise that people can't be trusted to follow through on what they say. He's aware of what's happened and is of the same opinion as you all but then who wouldn't be?

Wisey despite everything that PTM has done, it's still difficult to realise he has sunk to even further depths. He can't get to you so he's been working on his little schemes via your DD. He is toying with both of you, it almost seems like a game with him. You are right, there is no emotion involved, had he a shred of caring he would not do this to his DD. No words of wisdom, just my utter contempt for PTM.

Should you decide direct action is necessary, there is also room for one more under my rather spacious patio.

Mm, 1 bedroom flat, where is DD expecting to stay during the holidays?

I would be quite cross with DD if she were one of mine, but I have to admit that Izzy is right that she has been fooled by an expert manipulator. Although he has been behaving very badly over the past year (not all of which she's aware of) he is still her father, the man she has been brought up to trust and respect. When it comes to one parent telling her something she wants to hear and the other one telling her something unwelcome, the temptation to accept the more palatable message will inevitably be strong. He's no doubt been telling her all sorts of financial things that you haven't, although if what he's been saying is true I'll be a mite surprised, whilst sounding all authoritative, more credibly because she's used to him being Mr Moneybags in the family unit. When she discovers that no, Mum can NOT afford to run anything larger than a small flat on her own, even without paying stonking great school fees, it will no doubt sting a bit, but hopefully teach her a useful lesson for the future. Kids, even nearly-grown-up ones, rarely realise just how much things cost.

As for NM, I'd say carry on enjoying your dating, but don't even think about tying your lives together for quite some time. One day you will probably just wake up and feel it's right. For now, you need to make your independent way in life. (Plus you don't want the settlement to be affected by NM's finances.)

ps I don't think it's fair to keep XH in the same cellar with the other twunts. They're cheaty twunts with more money than sense. He's just an inadequate twunt who had to pretend he was ringing up other women because he didn't know any real ones, and has no idea how to earn or handle money.

I don't think DD has given a thought as to where she's going to stay in holidays tbh.

Anyway I've had a long text from ptm which basically says "we've got to talk, don't care how or when but DD keeps getting caught in the middle because you have employed a sol so please talk to me".

And DD's response to my telling her that the house will be sold so that she can go to the academy and I'm fine with selling? "you were going to sell it any way". She's gone off to meet her DF now.

I don't think I care any more. I've spent the day putting a positive spin on it all and I will at least be free to do as I please when I please without upsetting any one. And I can pretty much move to where ever I want within reason, in a place that suits me.

And no, I haven't responded to ptm's text. Perish the thought.

Oh and never fear my sol wants to see me tomorrow, we HAVE had a written response from ptm who it seems would like to avoid court and seems to like the idea of not disclosing - blah blah blah.

Hi Wisey
What a nightmare this man is. He just keeps coming back for more. So its your solicitor?s fault that your DD is confused, therefore your fault for instructing a solicitor. Not his fault in any way ? of course not.

Stuff his text and pleading where it belongs and please don?t be tempted into any discussions with him. You need to have everything monitored and recorded. This is a man who came out with the whole ?misunderstood and made a mistake? stuff just after you lost your DM. Who has been duly discarded by the OW he thought was a sure cert. That was the relationship which gave him the arrogance to mess you around in the early days. This is also a man who has had one too many scrapes at work and is adept at wriggling free.

Looking at where he has brought things, it is clear to me that he has realised that he is unable to challenge you on what he has done to you and he knows that you will NEVER take him back.

But? your DD remains the one thing he can manipulate you over and its no surprise that he is using her now. I?ve seen it myself in my own family where individuals have lied openly to their DCs and it has been to save their own skin and score points. Yes, people like this play dirty and they lie. Big fat lies.

Messing around your DD?s education at this stage is dishonourable. And as far as the costs go, the fees are only the tip of the iceberg and I am sure that none of that has been considered. Hang on to your hat Wisey and we?ll get you through this brewing storm. xx

So ptm hasn't moved into the squalid bedsit and it was just a ruse to garner sympathy?

Just as his manipulation of dd has been motivated by his twin desires of getting at you and inveigling you into having a face to face with him in the hope that, even at this late date, he can con persuade you into accepting less than your lawful financial entitlement and bore you rigid force you to listen to a monologue on his favourite subject namely, himself.

Hopefully, your solicitor has finally got the twunt over a barrel and your financial outlook will take an speedy upturn.

However, there is no way that you should be considering downsizing to a 1 bed flat, Wisey. Your dd is still very young; she has been devastated by the break of her parents marriage and she has been utterly betrayed by her father. If she believes that you are planning a future that have will no room in your new home for her, I dread to think what further emotional damage she will suffer.

Please think again, honey. Renting 2 beds will be infinitely preferably to buying a 1 bed property because at this stage of your dd's young life, she shouldn't be giving any thought to where she's be going to spending her holidays as her place with you, and her own room in your home. should be a given.