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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Should I be able to leave England

115 replies

TrappedinEngland · 03/07/2011 16:05

6 years ago I came to this country encouraged by my partner. We had a daughter who is now 4. I am desperately missing my own country and my family. Partner is refusing to let me go with our child and has threatened to take me to court if I do not leave our daughter in this country. I am at a loss what to do and he will not stop talking about the situation and he is involving eveyone in our problem. Has anyone else ever been in this situation because I am desperate for help.

OP posts:
rainbowinthesky · 03/07/2011 16:07

I can understand why your partner is concerned. If I were him I'd be doing all I could to stop you too.

magicmelons · 03/07/2011 16:11

It's a really hard one. Are you still together? DH and i discussed this before having children and decided that who ever ended the relationship or had an affair would be the one who would lose the right to decide where the child lived. It has never been an issue for us as it happens but it always made me feel a little more secure in the relationship.

Won't you DP go with you if its making you that unhappy?

Utterlydistraught · 03/07/2011 16:12

Depends which country you are going to. The UK has signed up to the Hague convention. If your destination also has then you will need your partners permission to to take the child from his/her country of residence (even for a holiday), else it will be classed as child abduction and the two countries will liaise to have the child brought back if your husband applies for a court order.

Are you just wanting to go home for a holiday or permanently?

I am very sorry that you are feeling so homesick and trapped.

Utterlydistraught · 03/07/2011 16:14

Magic melons - ah yes, I remember those discussions and I am finding out to my very bitter cost that they mean nothing!

magicmelons · 03/07/2011 16:22

Like i said i've never had to test them, in the meantime i have been fortunate to settle here and it's home now so i can't imagine leaving even if we did split up.

I have been stopped and questioned taking my dc out of the country for a family holiday without dh. I think your dh is being Very unreasonable if you just want to take her on holiday and prbably aadding to your feelings of being trapped.

Original poster
TrappedinEngland · 03/07/2011 19:27

Thank you for all your kind replies and I apologise for the delay coming back to you. It has just been an awful day again with him constantly nagging me to find out what I am going to do. He cannot understand that I just cannot think straight when under such pressure and I have been in tears. I am so upset for my daughter and I need to get out of the country for a while to where my support is because I am so cut off here.

To start with I need to go home to see my family and get a rest from all of this. this is as a holiday, but the relationship has really broken down and I now feel that without my family I will not be strong enough to cope with my daughter if he carries on as he is. Can he not understand that his bullying is forcing me away?

He does seem to be spending a lot of time on the internet and I think he is trying to see how he can stop me going home either for a holiday or permanently

OP posts:
snowmama · 03/07/2011 19:38

You would have to go to court to get 'Leave to Remove the jurisdiction', if your partner has parental responsibility(which at your daughters age he will have).

There are several issues at play here and I would recommend you talk to Citizens Advice and Women's Aid to understand your position. You would also need to be clear if you were leaving permanently when you submitted to the court, and would need to provide evidence of how you would support yourself etc...

Do you know what you want to do? Are you able to talk to a solicitor?

FabbyChic · 03/07/2011 19:44

Are you married?

I would also in your husbands shoes be concerned, you have said yourself you are not happy here and want to go home, to be honest surely you had an idea before you had a child that you did not like it here? Why then have a child here?

You should not even consider taking your child to live in another country where she cannot have a proper relationship with her father.

If you need to visit your home country, then do so alone without your child.

catwalker · 03/07/2011 21:43

How would your daughter feel about being taken away from her father?

Wafflepuss · 03/07/2011 21:52

Can your family come to visit you, rather than you going to them? That way you have them on hand for a few weeks support whilst you sort things out without having to worry about your dd

MrsDumpfire · 03/07/2011 22:00

Well the first thing that came to mind is that it is NOT right in any way that your H stops you from going back to your country to see yur family with your dd. They are her family too and there is no reason why she (and you) should be stopped from seeing them!
The fact that he doesn't want you to leave with her tells me he is worried that you will stay there and not come back. Is that a possibility?
Aonother thing is about your relationship itself. Is he controlling like this on other subjects? I mean, if there was no issue in your marriage then I can't see why he would want to stop you from going away on hol.

Now legally there are thngs you can and can't do. CAB might be of some help or perhaps a family lawyer (ask for a 30 min free apointment).

MrsDumpfire · 03/07/2011 22:05

As for all of those who think it isn't right for the OP to want to go back home for hol, I would like to remid you how it feels to need some support from family and not be able to get it because you are too far away. Be it a nice discussion, a hug or the possibility to have a different point of view from someone yu trust.
It can be very hard to find someone you are that close when yu are in a foreign country, even after 6 years living there.

Finally, why is it OK to say that a child will NOT have a relationship with half of her family because she isn't allowed to go there (and no not all her family, aunts, uncles, GO, cousins etc... will be able to come to the UK on a regular basis) ? All that to protect her relationship with her father that she might not even see that often (after all, the Op or the dad might decide to move away and regular visits could be quite difficult)

GypsyMoth · 03/07/2011 22:59

well mrs dumpfire....as the relationship i breaking down,it changes the staus quo slightly,and really does depend on which country op is from!

Original poster
TrappedinEngland · 04/07/2011 00:20

I am not married although he promised that we would be.

I was happy in this country to begin with but after my daughter was born i was left alone all day to care for her and the relationship deteriorated to what it is now.

Are you saying that my daughter does not have a right to see her family? why should she not travel to do so?

My daughter likes her father but is not really close to him.I think she would miss me more as I have looked after her each day for the whole of the day.

I ahve thought of getting my family over but he does not like the idea. I would not visit them and not come back. If I did leave permanently then I would want to do it the right way.

He is very controlling. He gives me hardly any money and does not ever want me to go out and that is partly why my life is so unhappy.

MrsDumpfire you really do understand exactly how i am feeling. I so need to have time with my family to get my energy back.

Thank you all for your advice.

OP posts:
snowmama · 04/07/2011 06:07

Trapped, you need some professional advice, talk to Women's Aid, CAB and see if you can get a free initial half hour with a solicitor.

holyShmoley · 04/07/2011 07:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

prh47bridge · 04/07/2011 09:31

The legal position is as follows:

If you partner is named on your daughter's birth certificate he has parental responsibility. That means you need his consent before you can take your daughter out of the country. A previous poster implied that you only need this if you are going to a country that has signed up to the Hague Convention. That is not correct. You need his consent to take your daughter anywhere outside England and Wales. If you go without his consent you are potentially guilty of child abduction.

If your partner refuses to consent you can get a Specific Issue Order from the courts to allow you to take your daughter abroad. For a genuine holiday there should be no problems getting such an order.

If you separate from your partner and end up with a Residence Order in your favour you will be able to take your daughter out of the country for up to a month without needing your partner's consent. Note, however, that the courts won't generally give you a Residence Order just to make holidays easier. Usually they will only issue such an order if there is a dispute over where your daughter should live.

Taking your daughter out of the country permanently without her father's consent would be harder to achieve. The courts would not necessarily refuse but they would want to see that the move is justified and that there are proper arrangements in place for contact between your daughter and her father.

If your partner is not named on the birth certificate you are free to take your daughter out of the country any time you want. However, if he applies for a Parental Responsibility Order he would almost certainly get it in which case the information I have given above applies.

JustAnother · 04/07/2011 10:17

I am confused about how this works. I take my DS out of the country 3 to 4 times per year on holidays, and I have never been asked for DH's consent. What form does this consent take? is it a piece of paper? To clarify DS and I have the same nationality passports.

MrsDumpfire · 04/07/2011 10:22

Op I would advise you to contact WA. Your Uh seems to be. Very controlling. He should not have a problem with you seeing your relatives in the UK. This looks like a WU to control you.

niceguy2 · 04/07/2011 10:27

Justanother, holidays are fine. Verbal permission or even dammit implicit permission is fine. As in you mentioned it, he hasn't kicked off, thereby giving you implicit permission. Court's would almost always grant holidays as in the child's best interest so its a bit of a non issue.

But OP is talking about removing the child from the country and thats completely different. Rightly or wrongly OP chose to move here and have a child with her partner. She must have known this would have a huge impact on her life.

If I were her partner I'd be doing everything I could too to stop her from going. And yes a lot of that behaviour would probably look controlling as I'd be pretty desperate not to lose my daughter.

As for having to look after her on her own for most of the day, I'm sure if her partner was here, he'd be saying he worked long hours to keep a roof over both their heads.

lightsandshapes · 04/07/2011 10:38

I think you need a holiday in your home country st least - to see your family. He does not 'own' you and so he cannot prevent that and you can do it in a way that does not seem threatening. He hasn't even married you so the rights he csn claim ae limited. Children need and have a right to see their extended family and not just be controlled by one man! I can't believe the people that are sticking up for the OP's Dp so much. I would book some tickets out to see your family for 2 - 3 weeks and tell him calmly that you are going on a holiday. It's your right to do this and he can't stop you. Good luck!

JustAnother · 04/07/2011 10:40

thanks, niceguy2. I had not realised that the OP wanted to remove the child permanently from UK. I understand the father's concern about this, especially if it is a very far away country.
OP, you say that you " would not visit them and not come back". Have you explained this clearly to your daughter's father? Does he not believe you?

puffling · 04/07/2011 10:50

It sounds to me as if you are suffering some aspects of domestic abuse e.g. his witholding money from you, not allowing relatives to visit.
I agree with other posters that you should contact womens aid to get some advice about what to do next. It sounds as if your fist step needs to be to move somewhere safe within this country. Then you would be free to gave family come and see you to support you thru' this time.

GypsyMoth · 04/07/2011 10:58

so you are unmarried and not working.......which country have you come from?

do you get no benefit help?

MrsDumpfire · 04/07/2011 11:18

The OP never said she was moving abroad with her dd. She said she wants to go away on hol to see herfamily
ily which happens to be abroad.
her dh on the other. side doesn't want her to see her family even here.
I don't quite understand how thE is acceptable behavior.
as for not working lots of mum are sahm and I thouhght there was nothing wrong with that!