Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships 2

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try again

exactly bj,

it's another source of anger to me that he's taken some of my joy away, he's made me stressed and irritable and tired, and I have no emotional energy left for the people in my life who REALLY deserve it.

hi hampsters

puppies thats a good extract. Would you put it on the soul-food thread? I think it wold be good to revive it, if anyone has any thing to add?

cross-posted with you notsorted I think you are right about PTSD (although mild in my case- do not want to ham this up!) I used to be very calm and grounded in the face of confrontation. But the same as you, if I hear anyone shouting at someone else I start to very slightly panic- I feel my heart rate and breathing rate increase. And quite strangely my teeth hurt - like when you have an exposed nerve/ chew on silver paper. I called the police once becasue I heard someone in our road shouting at their child It was prolonged bullying type shouting and the child was REALLY distressed in my defense

not sorted

that is a good way to remember that you are not to blame;
his anger is always justified and yours is not

bejeezus - the change in attitude - yes that's amazing. It was a couple of years ago that I recognised that actually, it wasn't just dp treating me like crp, quite a lot of other people around me were too. Including family members and close friends. Over the years I've attracted them like flies. Suddenly due to various things but basically not being able to take any more crp I realised that my relationship with these people was only ever good when I was pandering to their needs, putting myself down. The second I asserted myself with these people there was either a big row, or a big silence.

My true friends have been shone out, unfortunately I've had to actively disengage from quite a few people. There are some I haven't talked to for months as I've been going through the more recent changes, yet I know they are there for me and it's not a 'tense' silence, just a 'waiting' silence.

But it is interesting how you change. I am still polite and disengaged when there is minor conflict, but I will let my voice be heard when people think they can get away with treating me, or anyone else, like a doormat (even on mn threads! - yes it happens)

bejeezus no, I don't think it's wrong at all to remain a people-pleaser. And I agree it gives great pleasure.

I think it's just that, as givers, we need to learn to be more guarded against the takers of this world. It's a shame we can't traipse through life being innocent and loving to all, but that doesn't mean we can't continue to be open and giving to some. Or even to most.

For example, I have no problem being completely unguarded and giving with children, animals, and close friends and family who I know love and respect me. But I am now learning to be more on my guard with anyone else until they have shown themselves to be trustworthy.

I realised, in my process of detaching from stbxh, that he wanted me to be responsible for him: his wellbeing, his anger as well as his happiness, and to always be there for him, and to always be forgiving. And I realised that, while I was perfectly willing to do that for an actual child, I was no longer ready to take on that responsibility for another adult.

On the opposite end of the scale, when I was telling my BFF that I had understood my people-pleasing nature, and that I wanted to roll it back because of how it had harmed me in relation to stbxh, her reaction was to ask: "Does that mean you're not going to make me any more teapots? " (I am very crafty potter/seamstress/knitter/etc and ADORE making stuff for other people). And that helped me realise that no, I didn't want to give up my giving side completely, even with other adults. Because it's a part of me, and it brings me strength and joy. So now, I just watch out who I am giving to, and why I am doing it:

• Am I doing it because I love them and it makes me happy? We're good to go.
• Am I doing it because I feel I need to buy their approval of me, or that I "owe" it to them somehow? Retreat, retreat!

Dear Puppy
It's interesting that idea of making things and enjoying it. Mine is cooking, giving books that I've enjoyed, stuff from the garden. Those are some of the things I'm good at and enjoy connecting with other people who like doing that.
One weird thing was that ex would always get angry at DCs birthday parties. I always do roughly the same things and they expect them, but he would get so cross and ask me why I was wasting my time. D'oh, because when you are four or eight or whatever it's one of the most exciting days of the year. I never went overboard, and don't play the martyr, but I guess it was because it's not about him. As for his birthdays, that sort of passive-aggressive I don't want to do anything but if I'd ignored it then there would have been a sulk. And Christmas was all about him not wanting to do anything and moaning about it all and why the DCs had been 'brainwashed' into getting excited.

I like giving too, have always given stuff away since i was a kid, tho back then I WAS trying to buy friends, really sad. Am much more circumspect now. It didnt help that I was a bit weird as a kid and was teased at primary school.

Now when I give stuff it's genuinely because I know that someone else would like it, or could make better use of it than me. My motives are a bit different.

Thanks for the compliment Hissy

Evening!

Quick question?

Does anyone know where DC can go to talk about their fears/fallout from DV?

DS has said he thinks he might need a group to go talk to. X threw a dustpan brush at me - it missed, but shattered on the door near me, DS was in the room behind me. It made him jump, badly and he cried, hard at the time. Seems he is scared Daddy will come back and do it again.

I have reassured him that Daddy will never come back and live with us, that if he ever pulled a stunt like that I would call the police without a second thought and get him removed so we can be in peace.

I told him never to be afraid of saying anything to me, that no matter what he thought, that it'd never scare me, and that I could take it. I also said that if I couldn't fix whatever it is, I'd ask around until I found someone/somewhere that could, and that no matter what the issue was, we'd be OK.

What else can I do?

Is this a HV thing? would that help? Shall I ask at my DV group on Tuesday. I'll well up, I know I will.

Flipping excellent at suggesting stuff for others, but the moment my thoughts turn to myself or DS, i can feel the tears rising.... no matter how mundane the subject!

puppy - great observation about motives for giving. I used to give to everyone. Now I save it for special people.

notsorted your ex must have been such a miserable arse. God you poor thing. Sounds like a real downer. To you and DCs, quite unforgivable to have that negative self-indulgence going on around them. I get some of that too. Just realised that's one thing that really pushes my buttons, this dragging everything down to a negative.

hissy gorblessya - sitting sorting my life out while worrying about your dcs. They come first, you know that. I think if my dc were like that I would try and minimise the worry and kind of pretend that there's nothing wrong, as you said, won't happen again, etc, and if it did, what's the worst that can happen. Broken dustpan. We know that's seriously downplaying it, but dcs won't. And possibly try and get therapy for the family, but in my experience therapy just takes too long and kids need immediate results sometimes.

Hissy does your local WA have a children's worker? They may be able to help.

That was a brilliant response to your DS. He's a lucky boy to have you as a mum. I shall be stealing that word-for-word for my lot.

Theregoes : dunno, never called them. kind of scared to, in case I'm clogging up the line for someone who needs urgent help.

I'll ask at group on Tuesday... Cheers chuck!

Barbie: he's never said anything to me before today, so this is the first I knew that he was scared of Daddy coming back. It wasn't the broken brush it was the almighty noise it made, the ACT of it scared him witless.

Didn't mean to say anything untoward about trying to help anyone here, it DOES help me find answers to questions I have, but I am very aware that this reigning Queen of Avoidance is using it to hide behind and not deal with her own ishoos...

There is a MASSIVE mountain for this poster to climb, I am not even at the foot hills.

Hello and welcome Hampsters.

Notsorted and obrigada another vote for the Lundy book here. It made me realise what a mundane little abuser my H is, reading from the same script as all the others. And also how he will never change.

Barbie, WDIM and anyone else planning to leave but maybe not right now, I've been thinking a lot about how I put off leaving my abusive H:

When I realised I was being abused I told H I was leaving in 3 months, to live apart whilst he got therapy. I said we would get back together once he was 'better', but I secretly thought that if he was consistently nice for the 3 months, I would stay. It wasn't really much of a declaration to leave.

But during those 3 months, I got lots of support on here, started seeing a therapist, read the Lundy book, started to tell a few people how he had been treating me (and saw the abuse through their horrified eyes). All of this helped me to step back a bit and allow myself to see just how awful he had been to me. I realised we couldn't recover from that, even if he did turn into Mother Theresa.

Even though he was pretending to have changed, those 3 months became the worst period of my life. It was like waking up and finding myself in the lion's enclosure at the zoo: I could see how badly I was being treated, how disordered he was, and what he was capable of. H also ramped up the crazy as he was getting stressed as the leaving date approached. So I was really scared and I couldn't wait to get away. I feel a bit panicky thinking about that period now. In the end I practically sprinted out of there and I can honestly say I haven't missed him or questioned my decision once.

I would love more than anything to have left as soon as I realised I was being abused, and to have spared myself those awful final few weeks. But I wasn't ready to do it at the time and no-one could have told me to leave. The idea of leaving for good was so big and so frightening that I wouldn't have been able to plan that. Easing myself into the idea is probably the only thing that could have worked for me.

Now I spend a ridiculous amount of time revisiting past interactions with H, seeing clearly, in a way I hadn't at the time, that he was abusing me, that there is something wrong with him. So I think that even without the 'pleasure' of examining him at close quarters once I woke up, I would still be absolutely certain that leaving him was the right thing to do.

So my heart goes out to those of you who have 'woken up' but haven't left yet. It didn't get any worse than that for me. And life got immeasurably better and more peaceful when I left.

x-posts Hissy. I called WA last week in desperation, looking for advice on contact between H and my DCs and the first thing I said was that it wasn't urgent and I didn't want to clog up the lines. The woman I spoke to was very reassuring and told me not to worry about that. She was the one who recommended the Children's Worker at my local WA. (I can't tell you the outcome as I called the local outreach worker and left a message saying it wasn't urgent, and she hasn't responded yet.)

Bless you big hugs hissy! I'm not sure neither but like you say would be good to ask the group when you next go. Thergoes thankyou for that, i'm one of them that have woken up but not finally left yet, he left at first but then i let my guard down at 3am one morning! Even though i'm still here i'm now seeing straight through him & trying not to make too much of a fuss about it like i used to. He Slept on the spare bed in ds's room last night whilst i looked after dd, he heard me awake with her at 4 this

.............morning so instead of doing what any normal husband would have done and took ds for me when he woke up an hour later, he purposely got out of bed to take ds out his cot, put him in our room and he slithered off back to bed-yeh because it would have been so unreasonable to give your son a cuddle and get him back to sleep for their tired mother you're meant to be making an effort for? I know this sounds really mean but I just physically don't care anymore,got more important things to worry about

Ahhh Miss that is EXACTLY the kind of stuff my stbxh does...last night he was unable to hold the baby because he has mysteriously developed a 'bad back'. It also prevented him from getting off thr sofa and closing the curtains for me. It was fine whilst he has been at work and no problem when he went out for a walk to get HIMSELF A takeaway.

This morning Ive asked him to mind the baby and/or get the kids breakfast--neither of these things possible as he HAS to take the car to get it cleaned. Lol! this is a job that I have been asking him to do for a fortnight but he has been unable to because blah blah blah.

BUT instead of taking the car he sat in the kitchen watching me minding the baby and getting the kids breakfast whilst criticising the babies breakfast, my choice of cleaning product for the table, the way I speak to dd1 -'no wonder shes like she is when you are like that'! (she is lovely BTW). Issuing instructions to put kettle on, is kettle boiled? is the water hot? He did finally get off his arse and make HIMSELF a cup of tea!

Whilst in the kitchen or any part of the house actually) he will obstruct me--today I was preparing breakfast on the chopping board-went to get something from the fridge, so whilst he made his cup of tea he stood in front of it. I was then forced to stand behind hime waiting for him to finish. Used to ask him to move but then i get ' so I'm not allowed in the kitchen now am I? Im not allowed cups of tea then am I?' so tedious

I know what he is doing. We are going on holiday today (i know i know!). Hes trying to provoke me, so that I will get cross, then he will say 'You always do this, you always start a fight before we go away, you are trying to upset me/ ruin the holiday for me, dont you want me to come? why dont you say if you dont want me to come? right I wont come then!'

BREEEEATH!.....

This is the last holiday we will EVER go on together..it was bpooked ages ago before we decided to split. dd1 really excited about it. Of course I have organised and paid for it all

hissy

how old is your son? do group things work for kids? I didnt know they did them?

sorry no advice to offer. I think talking to your group would be the best thing also- some of them must have experienced similar? Is this the group you have just started attending? how is it going?

These are such petty, pathetic little power displays, aren't they? It must be just so wearing to go through a day full of silly niggles, even without more overt abusiveness. The thought of being a life partner and co-parent with somebody so hideously small-minded is depressing in the extreme. He's supposed to be an adult ffs.

Hissy, bless the child, isn't he a sweetie? What you said to him sounds absolutely right. It's good that you're looking for external sources of support too, though, as validation of what you said if nothing else.

Hissy, talk to your group, to your GP, ask around for good ways of approaching this. Is it because DS is thinking about his Dad and that is the one strong and awful memory he has? I guess we will all have to tell our DCs why their fathers aren't around, but how we tell them depends on age, what they ask and I guess it will be a question that needs to be dealt with at various times in their lives.
I've just told mine that Daddy isn't very well at the moment and can't see him. I think that is ok for his age.
Barbie
think I may take up needlework and do one of those Home Sweet Home things with "he was a miserable arse* beautifully stitched. Thankyou so much for making me lol when I read that.
PS am going to get Lundy today, anything else any good? Has anyone looked at books by Pat Craven who runs the Freedom programme?

notsorted: Beverly Engel and Susan Forward are also good, IME.

Puppy
is it better to go for a glut of reading or do one at a time?
And which of the others is less American? I'm a bit stiff-upper-lip at time ...

bejeezus - re the group, have only been twice, 1st time for 30 mins, last week had to leave 15m early. Next week I am clear to attend the full session.

I dunno, it's very early days, as I said, I'm trying to listen not speak. I do speak sometimes, but whenever I open my mouth about ME, i feel the tears welling up, and I can't afford for that to happen just yet.

OK have sent a text to the lady that runs the group. hoping that will help get info without me having to talk about it in group and weeping like a loon in front of a dozen people I don't know.

DS is 5.5.

notsorted they all speak sense, in a straightforward way. Fear not the American-ness!

• Lundy explains the workings of an abusive man; shows you that it's not your fault.

• Susan Forward talks both about the workings of the man and the woman involved.

• Beverly Engels focuses on healing the abused person.

So they all correspond to different steps in the process, although many of the same truths are covered in all three. i would way pick the one that sounds like what you need most right now, and then figure out afterwards which further issues you feel you need to explore. There's no right or wrong order, or mandatory reading; just what corresponds to your own questions.