Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships 2

[bigbuttons]

try again

JK, the least amount of time he spends with your boy is actually better. You don't want your boy picking up any habits.

remember your X is responsible for his conduct, it's better that you don't see him or have any contact with him at all tbh, so if he can't see DS, all good, neither do you.

YOU NEED TO GET FREE OF HIM, let him do what he thinks is best and go on holiday, and you get to detach and learn what real freedom is.

Hi, how is everyone?
Another twist and turn that I'm struggling with and any advice appreciated ... Had to do an outline of my relationship with x for solicitor. I know I was needy and kept hoping for things to sort themselves out but starting to think I have not behaved as well as I should ... in all this push and pull can't see the wood for the trees. I'm afraid that all that's happened could be seen as my fault for not just letting him walk. I didn't because of the kids and there was enough there, enough said at times to make me believe it could work, we'd get over our problems because of commitment to the DCs.
Does anyone else have these moments of confusion when they think they've contributed to the whole thing?

of course you feel guilty about some things, you are the one that has been blamed and scapegoated for years, you are conditioned to think it's YOU not him.

Concentrate on what you know a normal relationship is like and look at where yours fails to meet those standards. Talk about fear of him, that's not normal, talk about how your feelings are trampled, while his are the only ones considered. You tried to keep a relationship together, you fought to keep it in spite of his behaviour/treatement of you.

Read Lundy Bancroft (again and again) and then come back to thinking about your relationship. HE CHOSE TO ABUSE YOU, remember that. He could have been normal, been fair and kind... he wasn't.

Dear Hissy,
thank you for being such a tower of strength. Grey day and am feeling a failure for not having any way of giving my DC his daddy back. He got into bed with me in the night and when he woke up he said Daddy's here.
He was always waking up and getting into bed with us and loved bouncing around on the bed in the mornings.

I'm just wondering why it all was so messed up. And with solicitors involved it's all the nasty bits, which makes me feel either I'm being vindictive - which will be his take - or why one can't be human about all this stuff and have the decent conversation about what went on, but stop all the bloody blaming. I've not got a boundary, barrier that I won't let him cross, something I didn't have before, but this cruel to be kind (to DCs) goes against my nature. Basically do have a sense that everyone can change, can be good and it's only circumstances that make us behave badly.
I haven't bought Lundy yet. Feel it will make me more depressed than lift my mood.

Oh Hissy, how come you are so rational, decisive?

Sorry should be I now have a boundary -- oops that's a telling slip

READ LUNDY... PLEASE!

It will show you that you are NOT to blame! That's where I got my decisiveness, in knowing that I was right to be feeling pissed off with X, in knowing that what he did was to control me, to maniputate me and make HIM feel better.

He's still doing it. I don't care. I do wish he really would appreciate that if I never saw him again in my entire life, never had to talk to him, or think of him again it would be the most perfect of perfect scenarios. but he doesn't live in normal land, he lives on de banks of denial pretty much literally

You are not being cruel to the DC, where the hell do you get this? this is a toxic environment they are in, you are freeing them from that, they will understand, more when you actually tell them exactly why you and their dad are no longer together. And you will, and you should btw!

And here am I on banks of confusion. Did speak to MiL and she feels we are both to blame and why don't we try and communicate outside solicitors as well ie by letter. But I'm so pissed by the minimising thing. Everyone has rows, but not everyone breaks stuff or gets so close up to your face that you cower or make threats. His speciality was escalating discussion into row then going further and compounding it by walking out. Apparently that was for his own protection (from his own anger?) and I'd be lamely saying please calm down, can we talk about it, do you want a cup of tea. Oh such collusion, or stupidity, or hope beyond the bounds of reason.
I don't want to give him reason to hate me as fear that spill into DCs lives, but don't want to move my position by saying it didn't happen or I was to blame. Yes, hands up for the odd row, being tired or pissed off, but not guilty for demeaning someone else, walking away, lies, taunts, lack of faithfulness and failing to find a better way out than anger, abuse and stonewalling.
Sorry, rant, rant, rant. It's what I feel I should say to him, but he won't listen will he?

His mother will not want to admit her son is abusive. Full Stop!

He won't listen, his mother won't listen. You will be literally wasting you breath. Pissing in the wind.

Sit yourself down and recognise the truth in your life, what works, what makes you happy. recognise that hope only exists in your life when you have extracted H from it.

READ LUNDY, ASAP, YOU NEED TO SEE IT FOR YOURSELF click here

Oh and for the love of GOD! Stop worrying about what others will think.

You will horrify him if you sling him out - GOOD! he bloody deserves it! His mother will be MORTIFIED, of course she will be, he is her son, she won't see the wrong he is doing, she may have even caused it!

the only person that matters here right now is YOU. You can't be as good a mother as you could be, living with him. You will thrive, your DC will thrive and you will regain the power to be happy in your own life.

Hissy Nice Shmice - its all BS as far as I can see.
I still dont know what "real" freedom is - he still has a hold over me. Am a little down that it's such a slow process, but I will get there. Baby steps and all that!

Dear MO,
i know where you are at. One baby step then fall over. I guess lesson is that little does the baby know but one day s/he ends up sprinting.
Wish we could all go from first stumble to 100 miles an hour.

Thanks MO, i've snatched 10mins whilst she's sleeping, she got rushed in with breathing difficulties so have been paranoidly watching over her every time she so much as coughs. shot him down at the hospital when he was moaning to which i replied "sorry but my dd is poorly so your ego happens to be way down my list of priorities!"... Are these men for real?! Although I was grateful he was still here that night as there was no-one else available to look after the other dc, so confused & tired at the moment:(

notsorted
If you buy Lundy, the fog will start clearing.
The process of leaving is never easy, but it is PROGRESSIVE. Where you are now is not. You are stuck in a never ending cycle of hope and disappointment. It is soul-destroying. For your DC's also.

Your life belongs to you, not your OH or his complicit, blinkered family.

Before you can leave, you have to realise that you NEED to leave, really understand it with your heart as well as your head. Thats' where Saint Lundy comes in. He is not a depressing enemy, he is your friend and the chance to gain some much needed clarity.

Pixie, love, have a hug - you poor love! hope DD is on the mend!

MO: great post! as DS would say, it's so good it's OFF THE THUMBS!

haha barbie must be a day for the household stuff. Dont know why, but I tried to pull stbxh up about his slovenly behaviour today, as he was on his way to bed leaving me piles of washing up, a filthy kitchen, bathroom in complete mess from kids bath etc etc. His reply was along the lines of-I should know by now thta he doesnt like arguing, why do I always want to pick a fight, I always go on about everything, thats why he doesnt help me out in the house!! I should have known better. what pisses me off about this is that he sees it as helping ME out?!?!? Isnt it his house and his kids too? he takes NO responsibilty for anything at all. Never mind-all tidied now!

Yes not sorted I am always thinking that I have contributed to this...and I know that this is a common feeling amongst us. But I actually think in my case it may be true. I have never taken it lying down. I have not been one to keep quiet to keep the peace. I have done my fair share of shouting/ name calling etc.

I have been thinking about minimising and normalising over the last few days, as it is some thing I still continue to do and I know it makes the process of seperating harder; we are pretty much programmed to do it I reckon by the world we live in. we do it every day. We are constantly shown pictures of starving children in Africa on the tv, we shed a tear and then go out shopping for some new shoes. I had a little catch up with the news as I knew thta someone had been hacking someone elses phone, I got the gist that it was a pretty big scandal and thought I had better get my head from up my ass and pay attention to the world around me; there is no way that whistle-blowers death is 'not suspicious' The same as there is no way David Kelly's death was suicide...but we minimse these political events, n ormalise them and live another day. Reality is a bit subjective, depending on which awful atrocities a person can stomach eh?

I would like to hear your opinions please on a little, ahem, altercation I had with a man in the street today
I was walking along pushing dd2 in the pushchair, day dreaming about winning the 'rich for life' lottery. I was vaguely aware that I passed by a gentleman. After I had gone some way down the street, he shouted after me 'dont say thank you then, rude cow!'. I turned round and gave him a 'WTF are you mad?' face. He explained that he had moved out the way to let me pass and I hadnt thanked him. And he was fed up with people not saying thank you. The pavement was very wide and he appeared to be standing on it waiting (for someone). My PoV was that there was plenty of space for 2 (actually for 4 or 5) people to be passing each other and I didnt perceive that he had gotten out of my way, or that there was any need for people to have to give way to each other on this very wide pavement; we were 2 people sharing the pavement and I could equally have expected a thank you from him for not choosing to run into him. If it had been a narrow walk way and he had moved so that I could get through then of course I would have expressed gratitude, I am a polite person. But to me this smacked of entitlement; why the hell should I be grateful that he had not choosen to obstruct me?! So, anyway, I thanked him for 'moving' and then told him he was being an arsehole.....

(long rambling irrelevant story, bear with me...)

before I met stbxh and I was a cheerful happy person with no knowledge of abusive ways, I would NEVER have reacted like this; I would have apologised for not realising he had moved for me, thanked him and gone on my way- I would not have given it another thought.

I know it is a story of a very trivial event but it made me realise how my outlook on EVERYTHING has been changed by him. Am I always going to view my life and events through this prism of red flags and abusive behaviour?

AND was I correct in my impression of this guy today? I know he has no relevance in my life so it doesnt really matter...but a different event, a different man, a different day and my interpretation may be important

before I met stbxh and I was a cheerful happy person with no knowledge of abusive ways, I would NEVER have reacted like this; I would have apologised for not realising he had moved for me, thanked him and gone on my way- I would not have given it another thought......

BJ - I could have written that part...

I too feel I have been changed by him. Of course, I needed to change, which is so sad, - and we have to change to fight these bastards.

I just wrote a really long post, after logging in - by the time I was ready to post mn had lost my post and asked me to log in again. Does anyone else find this...am I doing something wrong?

Love to all, very little time to post at the mo, with 3 teens off school, but am reading each and every page of this thread.

Hello ladies

I've been lurking on this for a long time and would like to say how insparational you all are.
I feel so weak in conparison.
I still love h, but the bruises dont tally with that of a loving relationship iykwim.

If we were playing 'red flag' bingo from the start, then I would have won hands down.

Why the fucing fuk do I still love him though?!

He is upstairs waiting for me.

I feel that I'm betraying him by writing this
and letting him down because I dont want sex -although I will 'put out' anyway.

Its messed up.

bejeezus yes: I hear you on now constantly questioning yours and others' behaviour in the prism of entitlement vs people-pleasing. I do it too. I also see that this harrowing experience with stbxh helped me come to grips with the ways in which I need to change (I need to be less accommodating and self-effacing).

But part of me still wishes that everyone else could be an accommodating people-pleaser too. Whenever I am with someone like that, harmony and creativity ensue. There's just a lot of entitled people with a yen for domination around, and that means I have to jealously guard my better nature. It's a real shame.

seriously MN is going through a lot of upgrades that mean the site periodically goes off-line and lots of people's posts get lost.

Hampster welcome. Your feelings are normal. You are in a process, a transition, between the life you knew and accepted, and the new truths you are now beginning to grasp. Confusion is normal. Your feelings of attachment to your H and to the good life that "could have been" will linger, as they are very strong. It's painful, but it will get better. Keep posting. x

The Lundy book is mentioned often on this thread, as explained before I am over 14 years out of an emotionally abusive (and on a couple of occasions violently abusive) marraige but I don't feel I have dealt with what I went through. My question is: is the book for people still in these relationships or would I find it helpful after all these years?

obrigada, yes I would think the Lundy book would help you - to make sense of what went on in your marriage, and to validate your feelings even now. It might stir up some feelings of anger, grief etc...but maybe you need that to move on?

itsmeand...I just love the way to express the bit about the "prism of entitlement vs people-pleasing" that's exactly it.

I did used to be a "people pleaser" but I feel it's important not to denigrate that aspect of my (or anyone's) character. It's important for us not to lose ourselves in bitterness and anger.

It wasn't wrong of us to trust, to believe, to try to accommodate the other half, to take some responsibility. Our reactions were completely normal. I still believe that most RELATIONSHIPS do work with kindness, harmony, empathy etc.

Hell, I KNOW that I was never a doormat - nor a naive idiot. I had(have) wonderful friends, family, bosses and employees...so I KNOW it's not me.

I KNOW it's him. (Still not sure why it took me so long to figure it out though!)

Morning obrigada. Your question reminds me of this thread on MN today. Maybe it will help you too.

The Lundy book is for anyone who still hasn't understood that her abuser's behaviour is his responsibility and his alone. For women who can't get their heads round why someone would do that to them. Does that sound like you? If so, then yes the Lundy book could help.

Otherwise, counselling, if you can access it and afford it, would be the best way to re-open the past and understand how it affected you and continues to do so now.

Or, failing that, identify what are the issues that you need to explore to find peace:

• is it understanding the mechanics of abusive relationships?
• is it understanding your own self -- for example why you feel ruled by guilt, or by low self-esteem, and how to fix it?
• is it about understanding your upbringing, and how it might have led you to an abusive relationship in the first place?
• is it fear of passing on abuse you experienced to the next generation?
• etc...

Whatever the issue(s) that you need to process and learn from, there are bound to be some quality self-help books out there.

For all the women who are on the cusp of leaving, or have just left, and are feeling torn, I'm copy-pasting this quote from the Alexandra Nouri blog:

When we leave the narcissist, it?s because the abuse has gotten intolerable. Afterward, when he calls us and pushes the buttons he knows extremely well, the temptation to give him another chance can be overwhelming. We?re hurt; we?re mad; we want to recoup some of our losses; we love him and want it to work; we just can?t believe that anyone would be so warped as to hurt us that way, so we want to give them the benefit of the doubt. All roads point to trying again with the narcissist.

Except for one. Reality. Which is Truth. Reality is Knowledge, and Honesty with yourself. It?s Your peace. Your health. This road points in the opposite direction, away from the narcissist. Yes, it?s an uphill road, but if you can invest in the climb, the view from the top is spectacular.

Good morning,

I am going to buy the Lundy book by the weekend as it's payday and then I can get a bit of backbone.

Bejeezus I too wasn't a complete doormat and I do remembering telling him that if he wanted one, they were £5 at the hardware shop. I think everyone does stand up, but it is the fact that his anger is always justified and your's is not. Ah that sense of entitlement. And it's my fault that he had to find comfort elsewhere with someone who understands him and respects his way of life! Hah, I wonder when she will realise that scrabbling after every penny and blaming me, his other exes and his parents just doesn't wash.
And re that incident in the street, it's sort of mild PTSD. I can't bear hearing anyone shouting, at their kids, at other people. I mentally or physically flinch.
And that was my fault too, for cowering at his rages

Uhm, no. It was his fault for raging in order to make you cower and submit to him.

I was much happier as a people pleaser-is thta wrong?

Until stbxh, I dont think I ever felt taken advantage of, for having that personality trait. It made me happy to give my time and attention to other people and see how that made them happier. I didnt neglect myself in the process, I dont think. Like you said puppies the world would be a much more tranquil/ harmonious/ warm place if we were all lke that.

Also as a people pleaser you dont waste your time and energy seething about perceptions of people being entitled etc, like I did yesterday. Those kind of interactions leave a horrid taste in your mouth, for all involved