have given DP an ultimatum.. stand up for me and not his mother or we are over!

[fairybubbles]

Ive been with my DP for 9 years. We have 2 children aged 4 and 12weeks. i have had endless issues with his mother since we had our first child. She is a very controlling and bitter old lady and has insisted on seeing our DS once a week every week and put up such a carry on about making sure she gets her wishes. Ive never been happy with her demanding behaviour and have had many arguments with my DP about this. He will not stand up to her or his father. DP works full time mon-fri so the only time we get as a family are weekends. I have tried so hard to get on with them and be flexible i am even suggesting sometimes they come here mid-week when DP is at work on the one day our DS is off nursery in the afternoon.
She also tries very hard to divide our family. when she arrives she tells DS she is taking him out for a walk or to play and often im feeding the baby so im not able to go, she doesnt ask me first before saying to DS. The latest argument arose because she and DPs father took it upon themselves to buy a car seat for my DS. I told my DP that I was not happy for DS to go out with them without us there and therefore they did not need to buy this car seat. He refused to acknowledge my concerns. I decided to call his parents i tried to tell them camly that when they come to visit and if we are going out for the day then our children will be traveling in our car as they usually do. She then started shoutin down the phone saying how he is her grandson and she can do what she likes. her husband (DP's father) then took the phon for her and shouted abuse at me saying i should " go F@CK myself" and the call ended

she called back later and i answered. she demanded i let her speak to her son. i said he was busy and to wait as he was holding baby at the time. she screamed at me to get him on the line. i told her to mind her manners when she calls my house. i then heard DP agreeing with her on the phone and saying it was nothing to do with him and he doesnt have a problem. i am disgusted at his lack of respect for me. he then came off the phone and started an agument with me for phoning them. i said this was because he wouldnt listen and i needed to get my point across so i spoke to them myself. DP then shouted at me to "F@CK OFF" in front of our kids and stormed out the house, not returning until midnight.

this all happened on saturday and we havent sorted this out. i wrote him a letter yesterday and said that this was it, i have had enough and if he didnt support me and respect my decisions as a parent and stand up for me, getting his parents to apologise for there absurd behaviour towards me, then i dont see any future for us. we have 2 beautiful children together and we are a little family yet he cant seem to stand up to his maipulative mother. she has had her children and made her decisions and brought them up as she saw fit, why cant she allow us to do the same.

i really dont need this right now< im 12 weeks after giving birth> and still sleep deprived. ive had enough and im not backing down this time.

That's great CheeseAndBunion, but would you have had that insight when your youngest was 3 months old and you were spending 50% of your family time with MIL?

I think you have the situation "sussed" there CheeseAndBunion. The OP sounds a little over sensitive about some of the issues (not the swearing).
To me it is not enough to break -up her family over.

My advice would be to try and relax over the situation for a while, keep calm and think about what battles are worth and important to pick, and then proceed.

You say she is manipulating you, if so by splitting up with your DH wouldn't you be playing right into her hands???

Cool it for a while be very reasonable, give in to them over some of the more trivial things then perhaps your DH will support you in some of the more important issues.

We all as parents have different standards and practices just because they are different does not mean they are wrong.
The GP's want to be involved they obviously love the grandchildren and seem to the OP to be clueless and unthinking, not crime of the century though is it?

She sounds like a pain, yes, but to be honest so do you, OP. Unless there's something else missing here that I'm really not getting, you've launched into a power struggle with your MIL for your DP and your children. I don't see all the toxicity and manipulation; I do see some rude-ass behaviour on everyone's part.

How on earth can anyone 'win' here? I can only see losers, unless some deep breaths are taken and everyone involved counts to ten. Although your DP does sound like a bit of a wuss, he's entitled to have his own opinions here.

The swearing shows a complete lack of respect and manners.

Even if the OP is being PFB in other respects this one would be a deal-breaker for me.

What sort of gutter-dwelling people use language like this?

"you've launched into a power struggle with your MIL for your DP and your children. I don't see all the toxicity and manipulation"

I think that any grandparent who is trying to engage in a power struggle when their grandchild's mother is by definition behaving inappropriately. That behaviour in itself shows an inappropriate desire for control

If my PIL told me that they can do whatever they like with my DC and I should fuck off and leave them to do as they please, I'd tell them where to go, and I would certainly expect my DH to back me up. That's an outrageous situation.

The trouble with manipulative people is that when you come to try and describe the things they do that you know are being done to cause grief it all comes out sounding quite petty. It's not each individual act that is bad, it's the relentless grinding down that comes from constant pushes, jibes, niggles and power games. It sounds to me like this is the situation you are in OP and I really feel for you.

A full day every weekend is too much time to be forced to spend in the company of PIL. I love my PIL dearly but I would find that too much. OP is perfectly entitled to think they should be allowed more time together as a family, her DH and the kids that is. What kind of people inflict their company on someone that doesn't really want them there? What kind of GP insists that they can do what they like with their grandchild in complete disregard of the child's parents? What kind of person swears down the phone at anyone ever?! It's not that they want to see their GC, or what they do with him, it's the complete disrespect for the child's mother and her wishes that is the problem here.

OP I really don't think you deserve the hard time you've got on this thread but if people haven't experienced this kind of manipulative behaviour then they probably just can't see it for what it is. I'm guessing that you are the best person to judge really. The only note of caution, which has been mentioned above, is that if you do split with your DH then you will have less control, not more, over the time they spend with your children. It would be better by far to work things out with your DH.

Good luck.

It sounds like a boundary issue to me. The MIL does not seem to recognise these and this lack of recognition manifests in apparently 'trivial' matters (yoghurt, fruit etc). There is a fine line between being supportive and interfering. What purpose is the MIL serving by pointing out the fruit thing?

I also wonder where the DP is in all this??? I would expect a bit of apron string cutting from him. Take control of your life DP so OP is not in this situation!
I can completely see where you are coming from OP and I find it patronising (on your behalf) that people are putting it down to hormones.
Good luck.

I thought also that you seem controlling. What is wrng with a grndparent tellng a child they are taking them out? My MIL als gets my DH shirts and things.....in her home, she bought a cot, a nppy unit and lods of toys.

I was a bit but figurd that someone lse who loved DD so much cannot be bad thiing.

First off, if you have so little time on your own as a family unit, then they've got to cut down on the time they're there. If they won't, and it sounds like they won't, then you will have to get your skates on in the morning and be out of the house by 10am. Phone them the night before, and tell them you're going to be out for the day but you'll see them next week.

You'll have to do it for a fair few weeks, until they're into the routine of only coming every fortnight.

IL´s & husband all sound horrible.

Maybe OP is playing a "power game".

But I wouldn´t have anything to do with a FIL who told me to "fuck myself" & a husband who thought that that was OK & then told me to "fuck off", could actually do just that himself tbh.

Much as I don´t like my ILs, they would never dream of such behaviour-nor taking one of my children out without asking.

guess its her attitude and how she goes about things that is offending you, rather than what she is actually saying and doing? people can say a lot with their attitude. if she is being disrespectful to you constantly and speaking down to you etc i would be offended and upset too...
do you think you could have words with her or try to build on your relationship with her as a person so you can actually get on? it wud make both ur lives a lot easier. i find my MIL very hard to deal with too and she is not someone i would normally choose as a friend personality wise we kinda clash, so im trying very hard to keep the peace with her but its hard. i hope u find a way round it. but i do think ur hubby shud be standing up for u.

I do agree that if you're not comfortable with the amount of time you spend with the ILs, your DP should take that into account, BTW. I think a break from all the enforced company might do you all the world of good, particularly with a new baby. It doesn't sound like your DP 'gets' where you're coming from though.

I take mouseanon's point about sometimes things looking petty in isolation but which, accumulated, take on another weight of meaning.

Sorry, had to go out unexpectedly.

The other thing you have to do is get your dh to understand. How much time does he spend with his mum? Is he there when she comes? I got the impression that this happened midweek and that he was out at work. My dh was completely the same about his mum and her horrible little power games and the total disregard she showed to me. It was only when I suggested that he spend that much time with his mum that he blanched and began to understand. Even then, he was so used to completely ignoring her that most things went over his head anyway. I suggested that we take dd over there at w/ends (so he couldn't get out of being there), instead of her coming to us, and he was horrified!

He really started to 'get it' when he made a couple of rules (in this case, no squashes or fizzy drinks) and she completely ignored him, and pointedly told him that she'd got some lovely squash in specially; three or four weeks in a row. He never actually told me that he understood, but he started being a lot firmer with her, and eventually agreed that 'something had to be done'.

In the end, we moved 150 miles away. A bit drastic perhaps, but we did it for other reasons. For me, getting away from her was icing on the cake! (and we don't have a spare room so if she and sFIL want to visit, they book a B&B; mind you, they have money to burn.)

Good luck, really. It's a horrible situation and thoroughly demoralising. I found it quite bad enough that, having been a complete 'career girl' I had suddenly become of no account whatsoever. It's unlikely your dh would understand that at all, but you are entitled to be treated with common courtesy, and they are not showing you even that. Do they speak to everyone like that, or do they reserve it for you? I, too, would not let them through my door again until a proper apology was given (as abject as poss!); and I would insist on one from your dh too. Does he often speak to you like that?

OP I can see where you're coming from, I'm actually a bit surprised at the hard time you're getting

I also think that if a DIL posted on here that she had told her pils to 'fuck right off' she would be ripped to shreds, so I'm not sure why the pils are being defended? Car seats and yogurts aside my DH would never let anyone speakto me like that

Well I'm sat here in tears having read all the posts. He has told me if I don't apologise to his parents for upsetting them then he does not see a future for us. He said he loves me but that I am being unreasonable.I've not even had so much as an apology for the way he spoke to me.

I will not be apologising to them, I tried to have an adult conversation and they spoke to me completely out of turn. They don't speak to anyone else like that so why with me?

Thinking back about what I've posted earlier, its not really what his parents do that annoy me its how they do it. Its the way they have so little respect for me.
And I have not ever raised the thing about her commenting on ds foods I let that go over my head. But when I put it all together they, his mother in particular are undermining me.

for you

what now then?

but if he loves you then doesn't that mean that you two could still have a future together if you could somehow resolve this issue? communicating with eachother on your own obviously isn't working so would you consider a 3rd party such as relationship counselling? i'm a bit shocked that he thinks you need to apologise - for what, making them swear at you?!?

if it was me i'd be having a nervous breakdown, crying all day and telling dh i have pnd and i can't help my hormones. sorry if that sounds childish but you did give birth a few weeks ago so doesn't that play a part in how things are?

You must be feeling pretty low.
It would be a shame to break up your family over this,as presumably - this issue aside you and your DP are fine.
My Mum had a massive falling out with her MIL when I was a baby - potted history, my Nan is Matriach of the family with a capital 'M' and called the shots in her sons lives and basically told my Mum she would be going back to work full time 6 weeks after giving birth and she would look after the baby (me). No discussion was expected to this. My Mum, being a bit young and naive went along with this, but was incredibly unhappy, the care fell a bit short and Mum felt I was not being looked after well enough and after a few months put her foot down - no more granny care and she gave up work. Huge fall out. Nan and Mum did not speak for at least 5 years afterwards...However, my Mum agreed that my Dad could still take me to his Mums but she would not go too..this actually worked very well. Fast forward 40 years - my parents are now divorced, but Mum and Nan get on very well. Life is funny.
I'm not suggesting you do anything so drastic, but maybe if things have got so heated, you need to take yourself out of the equation a bit and let your PIL and DP meet and spend time with the kids and you use the time to do something else altogether. Just a thought.

Oh fairybubbles I'm so sorry this is his response. He doesn't see your side at all, does he?

If he doesn't think his parents should apologise for telling you to fuck off, I really don't know where you can go with it.

Any chance of Relate or similar? You two need an outside party to help negotiate this. (I can't believe he thinks you're going to apologise.)

What are your plans?

And it's not so much that your PIL have no resepct for you. It's that our DH doesn't have any respect for you.

The thing that strikes me about a lot of these posts is that it is so easy to be on the outside looking in and thinking these things aren't that bad and 8 years ago I would probably have been one of the people giving those replies.

But in that time I have been in a similar situation with my ex MIL and believe me it is tough an exhausting and it really does make you wonder if you are going mad. When you give examples of behaviour to others and even in your own head they sound petty but over years of it, it soon begins to wear you down mentally it really does. it isn't always about the words spoken that when you repeat or write down but how they are delivered.

I know my ex MIL used to ask dd if she wanted to go to the park or something to be manipulative, that she deliberately chose to ignore me telling her we had plans and had to be back for a certain time yet was always late or had promised DD a trip for ice cream before she brought her home. She knew that if and when I had to say no I'd be the bad bugger and she would be literally crying and comforting a crying dd.

There is a massive long list of seemingly petty things she did time and time again that in various ways were manipulative and geared to make me look bad and hystrical.

It is far too easy to sit there and say OP is over-reacting maybe she is but I do know that it is likely she isn't and that this is the accumulation of 9 years of her IL's and she is at the end of her tether.

I had an issue with my DH asking me to apologise to my ILs when all I had done was stand up for myself when FIL did something I had asked him several times not to do with regard to DS.

I told my DH that when FIL apologised to me, I would apologise in return. He didn't, I didn't, the incident has been long since forgotten. The point is that, although I snapped at FIL, my DH realised and appreciated that FIL was in the wrong once I had explained what had happened. I suspect he didn't have the balls to ask FIL to apologise to me in the end, but its no big deal.

Your DH should be supporting you here. DH supports me on the big stuff with ILs and we don't sweat the small stuff. He's been brought up to feel he has to please them as well and it has been terribly difficult at times - going back way before DS was born. The thing is, there isn't much big stuff to get upset about anymore because ILs have backed right off since we started to stand up to them.

Well it sounds as if they are all bullying you when you are especially vulnerable.

It is disgusting that your husband, rather than being up in arms at the way you were spoken to, spoke to you the same way.

I think that you should tell him that you also don´t see a future for yourself with someone who not only doesn´t defend you when his father swears at you, but joins in the abuse.

your dh is bu, definitely, i know i said earlier perhaps you were focusin on bad not ood, but i dont think that your dhs response is in anyway justified. he should be prepared to listen to you and understand where you are comin from, even if he disarees, and defend your reasonin to ils even if he says it is not important to me but my wife feels stronly about it.
have you ot any friends who could talk to him and explain?