have given DP an ultimatum.. stand up for me and not his mother or we are over!

[fairybubbles]

Ive been with my DP for 9 years. We have 2 children aged 4 and 12weeks. i have had endless issues with his mother since we had our first child. She is a very controlling and bitter old lady and has insisted on seeing our DS once a week every week and put up such a carry on about making sure she gets her wishes. Ive never been happy with her demanding behaviour and have had many arguments with my DP about this. He will not stand up to her or his father. DP works full time mon-fri so the only time we get as a family are weekends. I have tried so hard to get on with them and be flexible i am even suggesting sometimes they come here mid-week when DP is at work on the one day our DS is off nursery in the afternoon.
She also tries very hard to divide our family. when she arrives she tells DS she is taking him out for a walk or to play and often im feeding the baby so im not able to go, she doesnt ask me first before saying to DS. The latest argument arose because she and DPs father took it upon themselves to buy a car seat for my DS. I told my DP that I was not happy for DS to go out with them without us there and therefore they did not need to buy this car seat. He refused to acknowledge my concerns. I decided to call his parents i tried to tell them camly that when they come to visit and if we are going out for the day then our children will be traveling in our car as they usually do. She then started shoutin down the phone saying how he is her grandson and she can do what she likes. her husband (DP's father) then took the phon for her and shouted abuse at me saying i should " go F@CK myself" and the call ended

she called back later and i answered. she demanded i let her speak to her son. i said he was busy and to wait as he was holding baby at the time. she screamed at me to get him on the line. i told her to mind her manners when she calls my house. i then heard DP agreeing with her on the phone and saying it was nothing to do with him and he doesnt have a problem. i am disgusted at his lack of respect for me. he then came off the phone and started an agument with me for phoning them. i said this was because he wouldnt listen and i needed to get my point across so i spoke to them myself. DP then shouted at me to "F@CK OFF" in front of our kids and stormed out the house, not returning until midnight.

this all happened on saturday and we havent sorted this out. i wrote him a letter yesterday and said that this was it, i have had enough and if he didnt support me and respect my decisions as a parent and stand up for me, getting his parents to apologise for there absurd behaviour towards me, then i dont see any future for us. we have 2 beautiful children together and we are a little family yet he cant seem to stand up to his maipulative mother. she has had her children and made her decisions and brought them up as she saw fit, why cant she allow us to do the same.

i really dont need this right now< im 12 weeks after giving birth> and still sleep deprived. ive had enough and im not backing down this time.

this child will soon be spending every second weekend ...all weekend with the grandparents anyway if op kicks the husband out over this.....op will have no control over how many weighwatchers yoghurts he eats,or what else......and the baby will be spending some access time too......

you need to consider where your husband will be able to afford to live when/if you kick him out op.......because if he goes back to his parents,what then eh?

The OP is not actively pulling her family apart. Apart from his parents the problem also lies with her partner not wanting to rock the boat with regards to his mother who he probably fears far more than fairybubbles. Many adult children of such toxic people often have and show a great deal of fear, obligation and guilt towards their parents.

Toxic people like his parents and the problems they cause by their actions are not trivial or easily combatted (short of going no contact with such people). The usual ways of working with family will not work here because his parents will not and do not play by the "normal" rules governing such familial behaviour. They will not apologise nor take any responsibility for their actions.

Maybe, instead of issuing orders to your DP, you could suggest that he takes the children to see their grandparents for an afternoon every other weekend. That works well for many couples - you would get a break (I know the baby is still small but she won't stay that way for long, as you know!) and the GPs get a chance to chat to their son and have fun with the children.

There is so much tension here and it must be exhausting for you all.

Christina, I asked whether "someone deliberately ignoring a mother's express request for how to manage her child's safety as "trivial rubbish"?"

You've said that you do think that this is trivial. I ask again: how is trust built under such circumstances?

You also go on to say: "The MIL is just trying to have a relationship with her grandchildren". How do you know that is all that this MIL is trying to do? Why would you ignore what the OP is telling you is the context and tone of all of the MIL's communications with her?

I dont think this woman is "toxic" though. I dont see anything that she has done so far to warrant being described that way, or anything that they need to apologise for.

Actually, when you tell your partner that he either does as he is told or he has to leave, then that is tearing the family apart.

Squeaky

I give you this from the OP as stated in her initial posting:-

"The latest argument arose because she and DPs father took it upon themselves to buy a car seat for my DS. I told my DP that I was not happy for DS to go out with them without us there and therefore they did not need to buy this car seat. He refused to acknowledge my concerns. I decided to call his parents i tried to tell them camly that when they come to visit and if we are going out for the day then our children will be traveling in our car as they usually do. She then started shoutin down the phone saying how he is her grandson and she can do what she likes. her husband (DP's father) then took the phon for her and shouted abuse at me saying i should " go F@CK myself" and the call ended"

Is the above acceptable behaviour to you then on the part of his parents?. Would you expect your own ILs to treat you so poorly?. Apart from anything else the car seat these people could have chosen may have been completely unsuitable for the child as the weight and height of child needs to be considered.

Why should the OP be subjected to such abuse on the part of her man's parents.

As I have already stated unless this type of dysfunctional behaviour has been experienced at first hand it is very difficult for people who do not have such familial dysfunction to cope with to actually comprehend such abusive behaviour.

This isn't really about the cheese, or the fruit, or the car seat is it? It's about a lack of respect and I suspect two quite dominant women meeting head to head.
The OP and the MIL both have strong opinions and want their own to be the 'rule' in their own household - fair enough.
But the MIL sees the household of her son and 'her' grandchildren as her domain and the OP does not.
Whilst taken in isolation the GP's are offering advice/support/etc but seem pretty insensitive to whether or not it is welcome or appropriate - the swearing though is really out of order - whatever the provocation.
If I were the OP I bet I'd be feeling pretty vexed by PIL continually ignoring my parenting requests too.
There has to be give and take, my suggestion OP is not to do anything drastic now, but to calmly speak with your DP about how you feel and what you need to be different, but to also take a step back and see how you can accommodate a better relationship with the GP's.

OP, I think that to be honest it does sound like this is more about a power struggle between you and your MIL. She clearly still wants to see herself as an important figure in your son's life and you want to assert your position as the dominant female figure in your family. I think that if you read your posts back calmly you'd see that you make constant references to 'my kids', 'I should decide', 'my family' giving the impression that it's not about what you AND your husband want, but more about you winning a battle for supremacy with his Mother. I think your husband is probably caught in the middle of this and feels he will lose either way and I'd urge you to really seriously think about the situation before you start making ultimatums. Yes, their language and attitude on the phone was unnecessary but there is a strong chance that for a long time they've felt pushed out because they sense your frustration and anger towards them. My impression is that even if your MIL was behaving in the same was as your own parents you would still find fault... Because ultimately it's another woman with control over your husband and who, occasionally, he might put first.

I say all this because I once felt exactly the same way about my own MIL until I realised what I was doing to my family. My husband felt torn apart because much as he adores the family he has built with me, his wife, he also loves the family that raised him. He would dread seeing them because of how I might react, he would rarely relax around them because he'd be conscious of anything his mother did that might rile me, and he'd rarely suggest meeting them because he couldn't deal with the stress of it all. It took him really losing it one day with the frustration of it all for me to see that I was making everyone unhappy by carrying this anger around with me. I realised that my MIL hasn't stopped being a Mother just because her son got married, and I now realise how hard it has been for her to try and hold on to that role without stepping on my toes. She is still a bossy, overbearing fusspot at times, but then I'm not perfect either. The most important thing though is not how I feel, it's that she brings my DCs an awful amount of joy. They are happier for having her in their lives and my husband is too. THAT makes me happy. It makes me happy because now I have sons and I have realised that whilst I cannot make her the MIL I might have wished for I can make myself the type of DIL I hope my sons might find for me. Maybe ask yourself how you would feel if one day your future DIL asked your son to disown you for her? I honestly feel that if you can let go of this need to win, or gain control, you will all be happier. They are not perfect but neither probably are your own family. My MIL is a good woman who raised a truly great son. 3 years ago I'd never have said that but I cannot begin to tell you how much happier, calmer and more complete our family is now that I can.

Well, slhilly, we can only comment on what we are told....... my educated guess, based on the facts I have, is that here we have a MIL who is trying to spend time with her grandchildren and an OP who is trying to micro-manage their relationship and, bingo! tempers have flared.

The DP, who I assume loves them all, and doesn't seem to mind if his mother takes the children out, is keeping his head down in the hopes that they will sort it out.

Not much to end a relationship over, is it?

Nice post CheeseAndBunion.

Very true Beamur and I would agree with the vast majority of what you write.

I would only question the last part of your last sentence of your post where you write about the OP accommodating a better relationship with the grandparents. This is not without problems for a couple of reasons; the first one being that if the OP was actually dealing with normally healthily functioning indviduals such a tactic could work. Dysfunctional people like her man's parents do not abide or play by such "rules". Such a process also has to be two way; in this case it seems to me with regards to these people that it is their way or no way. Thirdly such people never apologise nor accept any real responsibility for their actions but are very adept at giving the OP a laundry list of her own supposed shortcomings.

cheeseandbunion - well said! I am fairly sure DH could have been a bit like the OP when we first got together. Mum didn't want to let go of me and I was terrified of upsetting her. But it passed. He didn't turn it into a power struggle. They have an OK relationship now and my parents have a lot of contact with their GPs.

Wow, have all the posters telling OP she's unreasonable and controlling missed the part where his family are swearing at her down the phone and blatantly ignoring her wishes? There's no way that's on.

OP, you and your DH should always present a united front to his parents. All issues of what is acceptable and reasonable should be worked out between the two of you. He should NOT be going over your head to agree with the carseats (or visits, or whatever), but neither should you go over his. You need to reach an agreement with him then present it to his parents.

If he feels you're being over-protective or PFB or dismissive, then he should tell you (well, he did, didn't he??), and he should keep his parents well out of the argument. You're allowed to be controlling - they're your children and not your MIL's - but your DH is their father and should equally have a say. If you two can't negotiate parenthood together, then you're right, it's over.

Have you tried Relate?

And when you talk to him about this, focus on the big stuff (how much time you spend with ILs/ Health & Safety) and DO NOT bring up yoghurts FFS. Sort the big stuff and let the little stuff slide.

Who should OP's man's primary loyalty be to?. It should be his partner fairybubbles but like many men who have been subjected to a lifetime of such damaging conditioning by his dysfunctional parents his loyalties to both she and his parents are torn. His parents patently do not like fairybubbles, never have and they would have acted the same regardless of whom their son got together with. I would also argue he is far more afraid of his parents than fairybubbles so continues to seek their approval and not rock that particular boat. It does him no favours ultimately.

I agree, Atilla, they don't like her, and she doesn't like them. Therefore OP & her DH need to sort out a reasonable way for IL's to see their grandkids. Once a week for a whole day is unreasonable in these circumstances. It's up to she & her DH to find a time that works for them both, and then IL's need to suck it up. Once a month Dh takes kids over for a full day visit? Every couple weeks?

i think that the op needs to pick her battles and assumin that her in laws intentions are bad, when there could be plenty of positive reasons why they are doin thins.

they really dont sound so bad, its not really the end of the world for baby to eat yohurt now and aain, and it is easy to just smile and not and then totally foret any coments about your parentin, or if you know there is somethin that will start a conflict dont ive when ils are there ie too much fruit/cheese.

it is perfectly acceptable they want to see your dcs once a week, and it is actually nice they make the effort to come round, take your dcs out, brin food for them.

Attila, where on earth do you get all this from? damaging? dysfunctional?

So far the grandmother has brought what she assumes to be low sugar yoghurts, and commented on her concern that too much fruit may not be healthy. Obviously she has worries about young children eating too much sugar, which considering how often the media ram that down our throats is not hard to understand.

The grandmother has also bought a car seat so that her grandson can sit safely in his grandparents car, again, showing a committment to being aware of safety issues and ensuring her grandson is safe.

She has taken a 4yo for a walk, while his mother is feeding the other baby.. more the actions of a person trying to help and be thoughtful in my opinion.

If this was my mother or MIL doing this, I would not be considering divorcing my husband.

and why should someones loyalty be to their partner above their own mother? if they aree with their mother and disaree with partner they arent allowed to say?

I think that both the OP and her MIL are being unreasonable, tbh. And yes, I know this is not AIBU.

Fairybubbles
Sit down and think things through. What are you absolutes, what can you not compromise on. What is annoying but teeth-grittable. What is just cause she annoys you on so many other levels?

Sort that out and try and work out a compromise.

And reduce the time that you are seeing them. An afternoon every two weeks is ample time for them to see their Grandchildren.

squeaky "She then started shoutin down the phone saying how he is her grandson and she can do what she likes "

No, she can't. And it's not unreasonable of OP to point this out to her. All the examples given seem trivial, I agree, but the IL's behaviour is clearly dysfunctional.

Fairy bubbles, I'm totally with you, you don't sound unreasonable just a bit pissed off. Personally a 3 hour session of in-laws once a month is more than enough. DH totally agrees, we have a life and see them when we can.
Swearing at you is totally unacceptable and they should apologise before darkening your door again. Can't believe your husband is so pathetic he can't stand up to his own mother, ask him to grow some, and fast.

OP, your DH should also understand that his DPs are never, ever to criticise you in front of your own DC. That needs to be made very clear to them. And you, of course, should never say a bad word about his parents in front of DC, either.

Small point, but I would never give my child anything with artificial sweeteners in it in preference to sugar. Nothing healthy about them at all

It's interesting how our own experiences influence how we see this situation. I understand why others might see it differently but the stuff I have read still doesn't flag up dysfunctional, controlling parents. To me it sounds like the same 'know it all', 'can't be told' behaviour I had with my own MIL. She can't help herself when it comes to offering advice, she can be a monumental pain in the behind (and I know this because I can too) and she still drives my DH and I insane at times. The difference is that now we laugh about it rather than argue over it and I give her credit for the bits she does well, not just the crap she does badly. I completely agree that their behaviour on the phone was unacceptable but I also know that, given how much of a cow I could be about her, if I'd ever confronted my MIL it could have gone the same way. I also know that I found it very easy to paint a fairly dreadful picture of my MIL, and I was never as quick to acknowledge the fact that I was a pretty hostile DIL too. I don't see controlling, emotionally manipulative parents here to be fair. I see two stubborn women fighting to be in charge. I also don't see a DP too broken to stand up to his family, I see a man like my husband who was constantly trying to juggle an impossible situation and avoid (sometimes unsuccessfully) hurting the people he loved.