OK, new beginnings, new thread, it WAS right to serve divorce papers!

[Wisedupwoman]

I asked the question - Am I right to serve the divorce papers on my chameleon-like but definitely cheating, lying, cruel and manipulative STBXH. You all said "YES". So I have. The story continues.........

[Kaelle]

Hi there, it's late but I'm thinking of u, hoping you got home safely and not too disheveled... Lots to ask of anyone...I secretly hope u decided to stop over somewhere, and that we won't hear from u til am..

Liking the whole flirty you...how cool is that? I can't EVEN imagine. You and Saffy seem to be in sim places on that front...tentatively making moves. You should be sooooo proud!

[Wisedupwoman]

Hello all. I'm shattered. I won't be like my D and bore you with motorway stories but we are all back safe and sound thanks.

However. On the emotional front, not so good.

At 4am this morning, DD was sobbing her heart out. She was a bit moody and quiet all the way home but I thought she was hungry and tired and she didn't want to speak.

But no. When I went in to see her, she cried and cried. She misses her D, wants him back home with the family, wishes she could just see him for 10 minutes at the end of the day (which is what he 'gave' her at bedtime) and is so upset that he has gone to another family and left us. We talked this morning and she cried again.

I did the only thing I could. I told her that he is still her D, that he wanted to leave and I tried for so long to keep us together, in the end because I wanted to protect her from the hurt I knew she'd feel when we split, but I couldn't stop him from going. I told her I knew that all the bravado she has shown about not wanting him here was in part a show, but that being away from home had given her a chance to really feel how devastating his going has been for her. And I said that it's normal for DC's to feel like this, to want the absent parent back and for things to be the way they were. I suggested (I don't know what you think about this) that maybe she should have this conversation with PTM as well as me, so that they can mend their relationship (tbh, if it was up to me he'd just disappear, but it's about what she wants and needs).

I'm upset too now. There is nothing I can do except be there and explain gently that it's sad that he doesn't seem to know who he is or what he actually wants from life, but that he didn't set out to hurt us. I asked her to give herself permission to feel sad and upset because it's important she does this for herself. It seemed to help, but I simply don't know what to do. Should I talk to him and try to explain how much this has hurt her? I'm sure he knows really, or should I take the position of "it's not my job to build bridges between you both, it's your job PTM".

I loved him so much, he was the love of my life. And now the fantasy he was pursuing isn't so great, DD and my DS's are grieving, I try and get on with my life. And I don't know what to do.

[Wisedupwoman]

Someone give me a slap.

I'm probably over tired. But I am running this through my head. What if I asked DD if she'd want her D to come home until he's sorted out or she's off to uni. Not to be in the marriage, but to share the parenting, give DD what she wants.

Mad? Or very mad? or just plain weird?

[TimeForMeIsFree]

Hi Wisey, I think such an arrangement could only work if you were 100% over PTM, totally detached and indifferent to him. If you still feel anything at all towards him, and that includes anger, then it won't work and DD is going to be subjected to a very unpleasant atmosphere. Plus it will not only be a set back for you but it will hold you back and you are doing so blooming well.

Honestly answer now, is this suggestion really for the benefit of DD or could it be that it provides the perfect excuse for you to have him back in the house??

[Saffysmum]

(Saffysmum takes a run up and slaps Wisey around the face ten times with a wet haddock - hard).

NO.

[aylsham]

hang on a minute. How about Wisey doing what she thinks is right. It may be that it's really her (as well as DD) that wants him back but she is wise enough to know if that is the case and if it is, whether it could ever work agan. It's so easy for everyone on here to do the 'keep him out' shout,but sometimes what may seem crazy to outsiders is really what the poster wants and can make work and she may see it as preferable to the alternative life she has now been living for so many months. Don't make it impossible for her to make her own mind up because of a fear of a backlash from people who have been so incredibly supportive throughout.

[Wisedupwoman]

Hi again and thanks all.

We've talked again. PTM has told her that he doesn't know whether the relationship with OW is going anywhere. He told her he thinks I'm looking really good and she thought he wanted her to tell me.

But I've not said what I was thinking of saying. It obviously isn't the right thing given the above. I've said that relationships that start as affairs are based entirely on a fantasy without the humdrum of everyday life, and although I don't know what OW has been thinking was the case all this time, i know from the texts I saw between them that PTM most certainly was acting out a fantasy love life with her. DD said she knows this but finds the idea that I should start dating myself a very hard thing to swallow, and is angry at the thought that I will. I pointed out that if PTM is finally being honest with her about OW that's a good thing, but being angry with me for being honest about moving on is a bit misplaced although I fully understand how it's easier to be angry with the parent who has stuck by her than the one who has left.

I told DD I believe that honesty isn't always kind, but at least it's real. And the sad thing is that it's probably better that she has two happy parents who are living separate lives than two who are together but unhappy . We talked bit about how PTM knew the only thing that would end our marriage would be another OW, and hurtful as that is, I can't live my life wishing it never happened and in false hope that we can get back together. I can still love him and move on to new things.

I hope I've said the right things. It saddens me that she can feel angry with me for wanting to move on, for being afraid that there'll be a step dad and a step mum, but i reminded her that she's rushing ahead of the here and now - there is no step dad or step mum, there's just two parents who aren't together any more and one of us moved more quickly than the other into a new relationship.

And i am still angry, really angry. Angry that he wants to let us know what he thinks about me, good bad or indifferent. As if I need validation from him about my worth. I know what i'm worth and it's a thousand times more precious than a cheap fantasy.

please find a nice recipe for that fish, Saff. I've come to my senses. Just wanted to hear someone else tell me.
x

[Saffysmum]

{stops twiddling hair, sucking thumb and gets off naughty step}

Here's the thing.

When your kids are small and they get ill, you wish you could be ill for them. When they hurt themselves we cuddle them and kiss the hurt better. When a nasty brat from first school makes them cry, we want to give nasty brat a good slap.

Your knee jerk reaction to this, is "I want to make it better for her". Unfortunately, you can only support her whilst she goes through this. Like I am with YS, I sometimes ask him if he's ok, and he says "I want it back like it was - I want dad here". And it hurts like hell. I want to make it better for him. A mum's natural instinct. But having Lycra Twunt home would not make it better - even if we did what you thought about - co-parenting but living your own lives. Because that isn't the way it was. The atmosphere would be lousy, I would nose dive into my shell; he would treat the place like a hotel, expecting to live his own life, whilst I pick up after him (expect I wouldn't, but you know what I mean).

So what your DD wants and what my YS wants, doesn't exist. It's gone. The good times that happened before the bad times will never come back. Too much has happened, too much hurt, too much deceit, too much pain.

Could you really consider him living at home - for daughter's sake - she would feel terribly guilty because she would know you are doing it for her. She would see you put on a brave face, and act "normal" whilst he goes off for a night out with OW (there will always be an OW with this man). You'll tell yourself it's fine - you're doing for her. But inwardly you'll curl up and want to die.

Time will help. When she gets a boyfriend, she will change and have her own relationship to focus on. My two girls have lovely BFs - thank god. I adore them both. Very different, but both lovely. My girls get a lot of support from them, and they see that not all men are like their dad. (Having a great older bro helps too - but he does his fair share of teasing/winding them up.

If he came back, I really don't think it would work on any level. At some point he would have to go again. And the old wounds for you and DD, which may be healing quite nicely, would be ripped open again.

But I do feel for you - I really do. What you do is your decision, and I'll support whatever decision you make hun.

Jamie Oliver's fish pie is worth a go - pukka!

[Wisedupwoman]

Thanks once again Saff, for us both it's only been a few months yet sometimes it is like someone just hit you round the face with a bat.

I wish he wuoldn't say nice things about me. I wish he wouldn't say them to DD. It's worse than if he was a ranting bastard. instead he's a nice bastard iyswim. But in the past few weeks i've heard different things. in mediation I heard "i'm living with a friend" (yeah, right). yesterday i heard from DS "ptm doesn't see himself staying there, and would never introduce OW to DD". today I heard "he doesn't know if it's going any where". it feels like mind-fucky stuff and it's not wanted, it opens up the wounds again.

I can't have him back here under any circumstances. It would kill me. I'd hate and resent him. I'd hate having to say "no" if he were to ask to come back under any circumstances because a part of me would, despite everything, want to say yes.

so I think it's got to be time for me to say to DD and DS - no matter what PTM says to you, please in future do not tell me. much as I might want to know, I don't want to know.

I know it's best that way if i'm to really get on with my life.

[Wisedupwoman]

Well as if I wasn't doing enough self torture already.

I just tried to change my email identity to my new name, don't really know how to do it and not lose the account altogether. To my surprise ptm still has an email address identity to the computor, lots of junk mail and other stuff from ebay etc. What did I do?

Correct. He is doing a Lycra Man. An email from a "nice 23 year old with a good body, are u online, so I can send you some nude piccies. get back to me". dated 19th May.

So he was doing the porn thing too, no surprise. In our study. on our computor, and he's still doing it now in the OW's home.

"You are so well rid" is what you'll say, "now delete his identity and don't go there again".

[TimeForMeIsFree]

I think he is being incredibly cruel and selfish saying such things about you to DD. He is transferring his sadness and quite possibly regret at what he has done onto her in hope to get something out of it for himself. That's what it seems like to me anyway. And going by your reaction to what he said it is having the desired effect. I also wonder, in light of the things he said to DD, if she is mainly feeling sorry for him because it does sound as if he could have been pulling the woe is me card.

Keep up the good work Wisey

[Saffysmum]

You are so well rid.

Now delete his identity and don't go there again.

I tell my kids (the three that see him) that I don't want to know anything.

But still things slip out - "dad went to a nightclub last night in the VIP (very immature prats) room, and got chatted up by a woman in her thirties, but he said he didn't take it any further, because it didn't feel right."

And, "dad said that he got so drunk out with his friends last Saturday, he fell over".

And "dad said you look lovely DD, you are the image of your lovely mum."

And "dad said tell mum that my head is in a very difficult place right now (yeah stuck up his own lycra clad arse) but I will always do right by her and you kids."

Enough! It's water off a ducks back with me - yes, he's a good looking guy -in a David-Tennant-in-ten-years-time- way. But he could waltz up the driveway on a white charger with a rose between his teeth and his backside stuffed with gold, and I'd just think "thank fuck I got rid."

[Wisedupwoman]

Timeforme thank you. It does sound like self-interested garbage really.

And Saff - any self respecting white charger wouldn't let a man in lycra any where near - just ask Kaelle!

[Dozer]

Poor dd. Think the stuff you said to her was amazing.

Ptm should know damn well how dd is bound to feel and be doing everything he can to reassure her of his love for her, being there for her etc etc. But he is not, he would rather fuck with her head - and yours - by being dishonest, distant (from her) and dropping these little bombshells and weird compliments. He is just continuing to try to manipulate you both.

On the wobble re ptm coming back, am totally in the saffy whack-with-a-wet-fish camp! DD wouldn't benefit and nor would you. You did everything you possibly could the last time, and he still acted the way he has, he would surely just hurt you both still further.

Love that line from saffy's gran (?) that she wouldn't have him back even if his arse was stuffed with gold. PTM's arse is merely full of shit.

aylsham wisey can, of course, do whatever she likes, is her life and we would still admire her and wish her well, but given all that we have heard about this man, cannot help but say what we do, 'cos he's just not worthy.

Only Liam Neeson will do for wisey.

[Dozer]

Who was building the liam for wisey? Get a move on with him woman, he's needed!

In the meantime, even Liam gallagher would do as a strong door-man to boot out ptm or whack him soundly with a guitar oshould wisey be tempted to let him cross her threshold!

[Kaelle]

Coming in late on this one...so much has happened. SugarPaste, Saffy very wise words. Its so f*ing hard to deal with the fact that we just want them GONE, so we can grieve properly and heal, and yet we know the DC's need them and WE, yes WE the women, those who keep it all together, have the DC's, have to adjust, and cope and do the right thing. I'm in the same position, but it's still so raw, I'm not coping....(which is why I'm not posting), and it saddens me that as further down the line as you are Wisey, sadness is still there. My father's absence in my life is STILL an issue with me, and brought very much to the forefront right now....My mother left him, believe it or not, and didn't want him in our lives. Big Mistake. My brothers and I really suffered. He's not perfect by any shape or form, but he does have a contribution, and he does love his children. My mum just made it impossible for him (mainly by moving to another continent...)It's one of the reasons that I'm fighting so hard so GG will stay involved, without threatening (and thanks to MNers, I stopped). Whatever I said last Friday night made an impact... though...

Anyway, I'm hijacking...we wives/partners feel abandoned, but we mustn't forget that the DC's do too, and despite how pissed off we are, how hurtful it is, those fuckers do have a role to play with them, even though it's over with us. I don't have the answers but I do know that ....and I also know to the core that the easier I make it for GG to be with DD's the more likely he is to do it and do it well...so can I say DAMN, even if it's on wisey's thread? So hurting and so angry.

But I know who my dad is, good and bad, and I know that he loves me, and that's really enough...my mum was the hero! Wisey, DD will get the whole thing, but she loves her D.....and that's OK, even if he is a complete shit.

Maybe try a few things: try to help DD deal with the new situation by admitting to the limboland and its difficulties, that PTM is trying to do the right thing (whether you believe it or not), ask PTM to be a little more discrete for her benefit (I'm being vvvvvvv polite here - but take the upper hand...) and...you all might really dish me for this....but the children also need to learn to compartmentalise their individual relationships, ie: not tell one parent what the other one said and certainly not relay messages. I learned that at 12yrs - it creates massive conflict/unrest and drama and is not good. As I was very alone when I discovered this survival technique, what I have told DC's close adult friends is to offer to be the neutral party. Only DD13 needs it right now, and she's responding to that very well.

Good to have stepped back to realise your worth, wisey we all MUST wobble all the time....but you comfort me with your resilience to get back on the "right" path...DD will hurt but the more she understands, the more she can make peace with it. Can you make it OK for her to talk to someone who will not tell you details, just reassure you that she's coping OK??

My english teacher always told me I waffled too much...I just cannot be succinct...

[BeforeAndAfter]

I addressed it to Wisey, "the chick with attitude, a great voice, great forehead, great shoes, who's a big swinging dick and who's a fucking amazing example to her kids and MN." I think the postman will know who to take it to.

I reinforced the rib-cage to withstand big hugs. (I'm jolly proud of the biceps, I put a lot of work into those, I can tell you. It bordered on a "Ghost" potter's wheel moment. Me with wallpaper paste on my hands, Evening Standards ripped and at the ready, glooping away at forming a bicep, seductive blob of wallpaper paste on my nose ... hmm maybe not, that could be more of a Cameron Diaz moment in "There's something about Mary".)

God, Wisey you've been through the mill this week. Not sure if you've already done this but maybe reading back through your posts will help remind of you of how far you've come and how amazing you are. I'm sorry you found the porn e-mails but maybe the timing was good because it's reminded you that PTM's spots really won't change. Rather than leopard spots think of them as big, inflamed, red, pussy spots with a bit of ooze going on ... that should put you off anything. Visualisation is a powerful tool so do what it takes to get to the other side of this wobble my lovely. x

[Dozer]

beforeandafter! Wisey, take heart, help is a'comin!

kaelle, hang in there, you're another strong lady with lots of support out here in the ether.....good wishes.

[Wisedupwoman]

B&A have already pitched tent outside sorting office for delivery of Liam. Have changed sheets on bed and scented candles are lit.

K thank you so much. YOu're dealing with alot now and you are a really caring woman.

Dozer hi, and thank you too, I am trying hard.

Saff you're a star.

Timeforme, brilliant as always, thank you.

I have started a new thread. Knitting does not feature in the title but it may resurface within!

Hope to see you there. You'll know it when you see it, I think. You know me, after all.

[Saffysmum]

[Scuttles off this thread to find new one]

I HAVE TO BE FIRST ON THE THREAD...GET OUT OF MY WAY.....

[Wisedupwoman]

Oh Saff, you could win a war entirely on your own!


[[OK, new beginnings, new thread, it WAS right to serve divorce papers!
here]]

trying to link to the new thread. I'm crap though.

[Wisedupwoman]

I'ts this:


divorce, trying to move on is like doing a square dance with both feet tied together. Update