Divorce papers served - have I done the right thing?

[Wisedupwoman]

Had to name change again to be on safe side.
Been posting on other thread - hope followers recognise this.

H gone five weeks ago after second affair in 4 years was discovered by me but not before he gave many, many clues and slip-shod attempts to keep it 'secret' from me. H wanted out and would have known my reaction to finding out hence i think he took this way to force my hand. Heartbroken as long, long relationship with both adult and teenage DC's involved.

Today the divorce papers went to court to be served. The therapist I'm seeing commented that this has been quite quick. This has set up train of thought which goes 'was this my fault, am I assuming too much here about what H really wants, is he such a monster........'

Need ongoing support about this please......

Funnily enough, there were three of us going through divorces at the same time where I used to work. I was perfectly happy with my bargain price hippy sol (long hair and jeans, his and secretary's offices were squeezed into his garage!). He wasn't a SHL but he communicated well, he specialised in family law, and if he didn't know the answer to one of my questions he went and researched it. He was honest and unflappable, ran every letter past me before firing it off, and kept the costs moderate. Most of all, I felt he was on my side. The other two had terrible problems with their sols, losing papers, missing crucial dates, giving duff advice, basically going through the motions at vast expense. XH's sol, recommended by his brother, was also not very impressive although he cost about twice as much as mine. (He once sent XH a copy letter addressed to another client - major issues there!) Or at least he would have cost twice as much if XH hadn't wangled out of paying him - long story, which I'll probably never hear all of, unfortunately.

As far as I could see, the value of these solicitors was pretty much in inverse proportion to their expensiveness.

WUW he is a deeply manipulative, abusive man. I am so sorry that your DD had to endure that, at such a young age. I imagine you were incandescent with rage after those revelations - but thank goodness DD is telling you all this, rather than holding it all in. One thought occurs though - she might need to tell all this to someone else too. Someone who can tell her firmly that what her father did was wrong.

I remember you initially thinking he was the author of the anonymous letter, but then latterly I recall you thinking that this might have been the first OW? Two thoughts spring to mind then - either he has totally invented this female caller, to make your DD think that you are the culprit (this is my bet) or it is the first OW extracting her revenge now. If it's the latter, her motives are pretty transparent. As he never lost touch with her, it's possible she was playing a long game and was led to believe that one day, their time would come . Now that she has found that actually yet another OW has replaced her, she has finally had to wake up from her reverie that he was a good sort, doing the right thing by his family.

Situations like this sometimes produce strange bedfellows and unlikely alliances, so if there is any mileage in the second hypothesis, I wonder whether she might turn her attentions to you soon?

I think if you can get all of the equity in the house, half of fuckwits pension, him paying the mortgage and the house (new or old) in your name then that would be a reasonable settlement yes, so do I . Strangely, ptm/fw doesn't want to do that. He wants me to have 25% of the lump sum and no claim on the pension. Every single public sector worker has said to me "make sure you get half his bloody pension" - they can't all be wrong, and nor are you.
I will go back through the posts and write down what I want answered by my sol. And then I'll ask him. I'll ask him to put it in writing so that I can look back and see what he is thinking and advising.

i think as does DD that he is making the anonymous caller up, the words used are exactly those used in the letter. And both DD and me think it's to make it look like it's me (which, if it is true, isn't me).

No, I think it's him playing some sick fuck game with DD because I've opted out of all that. But you never know so I think it will come out in the end if it is OW. Someone as pissed of as that won't stop until they've seen their strategy work and she/he'll keep going until their work is done IMO.

Thank you all. Sunday morning - animal husbandry awaits again. Back later. YOur posts are worth their weight in gold to me.

Sorry, all the posts re what he's offering and what you want have me confused - it's not too hard to do that

What is his very best offer?

I'm on a coffee break from the 'back wall' I look like a yetti.

The usual arrangement, I believe, is half the pension for the length of time you are together, but they may make some reduction in respect of whatever pension you got from your own employment. The idea is that you had reduced opportunity to build up pension provision during the years you were raising children, thus he should be considered to be earning a pension for both of you just as he was earning a day-to-day living for both of you. Someone pointed out to me recently that a pension is in fact deferred earnings, so that's fair enough really. You earn it at the time but you don't get given it till you retire. Thus, because the employer, or the government if that is your employer, has the use of the money in the meanwhile, they can afford to pay you more at the end. In theory. I think.

Anyway, XH got 40% of my pension (50% of what I earned while we were married), which I was a bit miffed about because he had the opportunity to build up his own pension but decided not to. He used to say he'd never live long enough to collect it anyway. Which, of course, turned out to be untrue, to no-one's great surprise except perhaps his.

I'm a bit confused dom com as well Wisey! You mentioned that a financial bloke said it was a good deal and you should bite his hand off, but to me 25% of the lump sum (I assume from the sale of the house?) is a bloody insult. And you are intitled to half his pension. My cousin recently divorced a public service worker, and she gets half as a lump sum, as soon as she is 55. And that's a lot - because he paid into it for over 30 years (they were married for 35).

I also think he's making up the anonymous caller, to drive a wedge between daughter and you - in fact I'd bet anything he is. Remember this man has no scruples - telling daughter he'd leave because she didn't like lunch! Bloody idiot.

Enjoy the animal husbandry (mind boggles - but whatever lights your candle) - I'd certainly like to butcher your old man, I know that!!

Annie I was just thinking of you. That's so helpful. For 20 years then. Plus my pension is crap in comparison in part because although i worked for the last 15 years (before then raising DS'S) I could only work p/t because of child-care, my earnings are far less, i've had to cancel my avc's because i have had to bump my net income up etc etc. Thanks for that. That's what I want and what i'm going to try and get. fuck the paltry lump sum.

Chips, I am confused about what he's offering, because it changed[hmm! He made it deliberately confusing to understand and at a time he knew i couldn't work it out - hence the attempts to propel me into mediation so quickly - another strategy which failed.

Anyhoo this I predict although not with the stunning clarity of Annie.

PTM knows the game is up at work - hence going 'off sick'. He's headed for at the least a disciplinary - maybe worse. He is preparing his swan song. This will be the ultimate victim status to play with DD (and anyone else who will listen). His desperate and bitter, mad XW who he tried for years to help before giving up, has finally lost the plot and made malicious calls to work which ultimately led to his dismissal/suspension/downgrading/whatever. He now cannot support his beloved DD because he has been the victim of a hate campaign.

Either the above or he has actually lost the plot himself. Poor thing.

Saffy - hello. No butchery here - bunny cleaning is all!

No 25% of his final salary lump sum in addition to the equity, plus money towards paying all the current mortgage or another, plus maintenance for DD until she's 18. That's the deal but the figures changed. Sorry, this is why I need an advocate who can understand both sides of the story and who can see the benefits and pitfalls.

Oh, I see thanks for making that clear. Yes, you certainly need a good financial adviser, or a SHL. X

Chapter two of above scenario:

Upon realising PTM isn't quite the dynamic derring-do she had thought, OW suddenly remembers what a pitiful twat he was first time around. She backpedals and ejects PTM from her life.

Poor PTM - he has nowhere and no-one to look after him. Suddenly remembers 'the good times' in marriage to mad XW -she wasn't so bad after all. Begins to feel sorry for himself at how badly it all ended. Wonders if it's worth making friendly overtures........

Yes, sure you'd make poisonous phone calls to your XH's work and get him sacked so he can't afford to pay you maintenance! And sure an employer would sack a long-term exemplary employee on the say-so of a mad stalker! Happens all the time

I'm not clear why you are expecting 100% of the equity in your house. I would have expected 50% of what it was worth the day he moved out, sort of thing? You might be expected to trade off some pension rights against some of the value of the house, for example. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer or a financier, just someone who got divorced and read a bit about it at the time, so don't believe me - get a proper expert!

This might be helpful to explain what the court would be looking at in a fair settlement -yes folks, divorce now has its own Wiki! And this one has a useful bit about pensions about a third of the way down the page. Also worth a look on Directgov. My favourite guys, Citizens Advice, are disappointingly sketchy on the subject.

... Chapter 3, mad XW also remembers what a pitiful twat he was and how badly he behaved when he was trying to run off with OW. She declines coolly. Finale: PTM ends days in bedsit, eating pot noodles.

THE END

(ps I knew "animal husbandry" in this context referred to cleaning out bunny cages, cos I'm smart [smug emoticon])

I felt like maybe my case wasn't strong enough and it was just me.

That's how I have been feeling. And if it isn't important enough to sol to give a straight answer to (christ, how difficult can it be to give a yes/no to percentages even if you don't know what the figures are?) I'll have to find another who will.

!00% of the equity providing if we sell it doesn't sell over a certain price - if we sell. 100% if i stay where we are until the mortgage is paid off. No pension in either case but 25% of the lump sum. His suggested settlement.
I'll have a look at the website and see what i can find - thanks Annie.

Whatever else you find out, I really think you would be unwise to give up a claim on the pension.

Just visited the websites and they are so helpful and clear. I think I should be asking for some of his pension, 50% if i can get it because my pension is so small. It's what we based our joint future's on to support us both because I was never going to catch up no matter how much I worked.

Also read a bit about the mediation. it appears the mediator can advise each of us on what the other is offering/asking for. that's a relief. got a lot of reading up to do now though.

If sol had told me all that I'd feel a bit more like he's on my side. Or even if he'd said go onto wikivorce!
talk about being spoon-fed though.

I like CH 3. Alot

No I'll try not to but I think that will mean he'll want a share of the equity of the house, maybe as much as 50% - these are the considerations that I don't know how to negotiate.

am compiling a list of q's for the mediator about this though. this is such a confusing process, no wonder so many people stay in unhappy marriages!

It is all a bit mind boggling isn't it :(

Do you have any idea of what debt there is, other than your mtge?

If there's no debt - I would assume the settlement would go 50% equity/probably around 35% pension/15% of net wage to support DD. It's not fair, it's not right - but it seems to be the way these things go. Hopefully you will get more, but I wouldn't count on it.

Can you factor in the money he took out of your savings account?

WRT the scenario of phone calls/work/your fault etc I think you are bang on the money there! - that's what I assumed from the start when you said that DD had said about the phone calls to work & I think he is manipulating her (or rather trying to manipulate her) into thinking it's all your doing. Thankfully she's a bit too smart to fall for it.

Only his personal debt. I don't have any other than the mtge.

Well his suggestions are definitely more generous than 50/50 ,except for the pension and he's dangling the carrots he wants to and not the ones he doesn't. i knew he'd do that of course. wanker.
But this pm i've put a few ideas together of my own and going off for cup of tea and slice of cake at a mates, so will take them with me to see what they think.

i bet you look nothing like a yeti btw.

I learned from the website suggested by Annie that there aren't any rules about settlements except for maintenance and housing for children.

Everything else is up for negotiation and only goes to court if negotiations fail altogether.

WUW: I really think you should consider sacking your sol. Sorry, but I'm going to bite the bullet and say I'm not impressed at all with him. I have only had one visit, you are far further down the line than me, and I knew, even from that one visit, what you have just had to find out for yourself from the website suggested by Annie. Your sol. should have made that clear to you. You say upthread that there are considerations that you don't know how to negotiate...of course you don't, that's why you're paying mega bucks for a sol. to do this for you - it's his job to give you all the options, then to advise you on the best deal for YOU. Sounds to me like you're doing half his job for him. Does he wear purple trousers too?

Hope the cuppa and cake was nice XX

Hi again,

yes i think you may be right. of course early on i was shocked and didn't take alot in but his main focus has been 1. get the divorce going 2. get mediation going 3. find PTM 4. get mediation going 5. get mediation........

Any road up. It's true about the woman who has been making calls to work. PTM very worried apparently. Oh dear. I must admit my gander is up too. Who the fuck is she??????????????
Answers on a postcard please, and send direct to PTM.

Mystery woman - guess number 1.: Maybe she's got a superinjunction?

( visitors are away now. Am just catching up.)