Divorce papers served - have I done the right thing?

[Wisedupwoman]

Had to name change again to be on safe side.
Been posting on other thread - hope followers recognise this.

H gone five weeks ago after second affair in 4 years was discovered by me but not before he gave many, many clues and slip-shod attempts to keep it 'secret' from me. H wanted out and would have known my reaction to finding out hence i think he took this way to force my hand. Heartbroken as long, long relationship with both adult and teenage DC's involved.

Today the divorce papers went to court to be served. The therapist I'm seeing commented that this has been quite quick. This has set up train of thought which goes 'was this my fault, am I assuming too much here about what H really wants, is he such a monster........'

Need ongoing support about this please......

exactly, Chippingviper

Chips neither you nor anyone else here has pushed me too hard in any direction so please don't think that way . If anything you've urged me to think about things from every angle, just like Alldownhill says and it's in doing this I can see what I now can do.

I know every bit of paper I've signed over the last few years WRT loans etc. If anything comes to light that I know to be fradulent following mediation/court/whatever, I will go to the police and report it as such - i will do this regardless of the state of my relationship with ptm at that point - friendly/cold/forgiving/anything - and I won't enter into communication with him beforehand, I'll just do it because I know what I've done and what I've signed up to. That's the way to respond to an adult, even one who I still love regardless of the fact that he no longer loves me.

And if still he isn't honest, well, there's not alot I can do about that. I suppose he will have to make those decisions for himself and weigh up the consequences in terms of what damage and hurt it might cause between him and DD because it's their relationship which matters now, not ours. I'm thinking here of Annie's magnificent post as it applies to every single relationship he has with anybody. I can only free myself of that, I can't disentangle other's - they have to do it for themselves.

I'm off to the vets this morning - bloody cat swallowed a shoe lace and I need him checking over to make sure he's not running around with the family jewels inside him - oops, forgot, the family jewels are nestling inside those purple trousers!!!!!!!!

XXXXX speak later.

I don't think anyone is advocating you behave like a stroppy bitch just for the sake of it. For one thing, the more fighting you do through the legal system the smaller pot there will be to share out at the end. Plus, because you are a nicer person, being horrible takes more out of you than it does out of him. In other words, punishing him would be a waste of time and resources. If you were to both walk into mediation and walk out again two, three or fifteen sessions later with a settlement you feel is fair, I can't see any problem with that at all. Sure, he deserves to be kicked into the gutter, but UK law doesn't work like that. At the end of the day you owe it to your DCs and to yourself to get the best possible settlement. XH won't end up destitute because the courts don't see that as in anyone's interests. Well he might, but it'll be through further bad choices he makes, not through a punitive divorce outcome.

The problem is that you don't have reason to trust him. Whilst mediation is a valuable tool for couples who just need guiding through to a mutually satisfactory solution, it doesn't help if one party doesn't engage in it honestly; and this one, to borrow Chipping's excellent phrase, "couldn't lie straight in bed". He may be all broken and sad (or conceivably good at faking it ), but that won't necessarily stop him doing the dirty on you and your DCs; let me remind you that he has already been found out doing that very thing. You therefore have to keep a loaded solicitor in your smart handbag at all times. And if you aren't fully confident with the solicitor you have, change him. When you're paying full whack you might as well pay for a service you're happy with. (Love the sound of Saffysmum's SHL.)

Don't worry about whether PTM falls on his feet or head-first; he's got a few shots in his locker yet (like, somehow, the ability to snag a rich mistress!). Either he will be fine, or he is so set down a self-destructive path that you can't save him; he can only drag you all down too. So you fight, but you fight smart. You fight for what you should have, which is somewhat more than 50% of the marital assets in your situation, ie an equal share of everything (because that's what you both signed up to when you married) plus some more to compensate you for putting your career on the back burner, giving birth to his children and keeping a house nice for them all, for all those years. If you get it, PTM won't like it, and there should be a certain sense of satisfaction in that. No guilt. You did not ask for this.

Oops, lots of crossed posts. Hope the cat is ok!

Signed Annieviper (still blushing)

Morning Annie. Thank you, I wish you were my SHL, in fact I wish you all were!

I know, I will aim high and argue your points if we get to mediation because my opening statement to Shit Hot Mediator (SHM) will be: "I don't trust this process or my ptm to deliver what I'm looking for and I'm only doing this to jump through the hoop the law says I must".

Then if my sol seems disappointed or reproachful or in any way not ready to work with me the way I want him to I'll sack him and get another. End of.

I don't feel guilty, I don't feel remorse or sympathy. I want 100% of the equity plus 50% of his net income per month plus 50% of his pension. I want a house that he pays the mortgage on until it's paid off in full or until I decide to marry someone else. That's what I want. Now if that means he has to make a commitment (that he ends up regretting) to bridget jones because she has all the financial clout, then so be it. I didn't force him to do this.

Now - I have been to the main post office and asked them to return the parcel to sender. I wrote "not known here" on the letters and re-posted them to sender.

All future mail that comes I will send to OW's address without comment or response to any emails or texts and if he brings it up in mediation I will simply say "it's time you moved on" and then I will say to the mediator "I didnt' sign up for this in mediation, it's not working, I'm out".

Cat will be fine, I'm sure, just needs his tummy checking.

Still have drawer full of ptm's clothes. Am going to pack them into a box and parcelforce them to 'Disgracelands'.

Cookin' on gas...........

minus one shoelace...

Just a question - do you want him to know, you know, he's living at 'Disgraceland' and not the address he's saying he's living at?

I'm still trying to work out how (& why) your cat ate a shoe lace??

maybe its the cat's little bit of revenge...

Hi Wisey: thanks for your kind comments it's lovely that you feel we've helped you, you've helped me so much too.

Now - down to business! This mediation malarky: it says in my SHL's letter to me the following: "If you were able to reach an agreement through mediation you would then be given an opportunity to seek some advice on the terms of the agreement before deciding whether you wanted it embodied into a legally binding format".

Now, I interpret this that whatever PTM discloses (or fails to) in mediation regarding his finances, will be put into a legal document. So if he later is found out to have not disclosed everything, then he's scuppered.

Please make sure that your solicitor advises you about the bit I quoted, because if my solicitor will do it, then yours should. If he doesn't then bin him and find one who does. You're paying a fortune for a solicitor, so make sure he knows his stuff. I think that at the end of the day, whatever is disclosed and agreed at mediation, has the right to be made legal and given the once over by your solicitor - so make sure now that your solicitor will do this and make it legally binding. Then if he is dishonest - you've got him by the purple clad short and curlies. BTW, why do I always get an image of Austin Powers in my head when I type "PTM"??!!

It's not that I want him to know that I know (oo-er!)- after all, it isn't rocket science to trace someone, although ptm will be scratching his head and wondering just how I was able to - no matter.

It's about me taking a position which treats ptm as an adult who has made the choice about where and with whom he wants to spend his life. As such he must be prepared to be open about it with his current family, and actually, the family he has chosen to be with - at the moment she and her children are little more than his dirty little secret. Not my problem but not nice either.

Someone needs to take the lead to move this on. ptm will always be this way no matter who he's with. Unfortunately, I believe his DD will always be chasing after the dad she wants him to be and he'll always put just that little bit of distance between them. WWIFN was right - it's no coincidence that she is a female and he has betrayed her in the same way as he did me.

Saffy I'll check this out with sol - I am certain he has told me about making all agreements legal before undertaking to act on them. Don't worry, I feel in a different place today, a really different place.

Cat is fine. All shoelace out. Vet a richer woman for it.
It's a beautiful sunny and hot day here. Hope you're all enjoying it too.

Also since it's no longer a secret here, what's the point in acting as though it is?

I can't deny that any discomfort caused to either or both of them would give me a warm glow - I'm human! It won't affect mediation because if it does then I can just dump the process.

Are you worried Chips?
x

Wisey - so glad you're in a better place. You did right in getting cat checked out - a friend's cat swallowed the piece of string around a cooked joint of beef that had been left. He almost died and needed emergency surgery.

One thing I just want to say, I might be wrong but I get the impression that your sol is advising you that it's either mediation or court? That's wrong if so, the third option is that both solicitors thrash it out between them. Anyway, I know you're on the ball, just not so sure about your sol. You can bin him as you say if need be.

Have a nice evening
X

Thanks Saffysmum

Actually have been to see finance friend who looked over the stuff ptm wants me to consider and he says it's more generous than a court would suggest and he'd bite ptm's hand off before he has a change of heart and then whizz it to sol and court to get it rubber stamped. (phew).

So maybe I will hold off with the mail thing for now. Need to think very carefully about what I want in addition to the 'generosity' and work from there.

That sounds positive - yeah overlook the mail thing for now because at the end of the day it isn't a huge thing, just annoying. Have a good think about exactly what you want not now but in the future...take as long as you need.

Now, I think it's wine o'clock...so I'm off to open a bottle XX

Saffysmum

Am thinking about sol. Does yours give you any advice at all? I mean about what you can ask for or expect from an interim or long term settlement? Do you feel like you could take figures to her and have her look at them and tell you whether they're realistic or anything?

I actually feel like I'm being asked to work it out for myself.

I've had one free meeting with my SHL, during which she did all the paper work for legal aid, went through my income, his income, our outgoings, mortgage etc. Prior to seeing her she sent me a detailed form to complete to save time at our initial meeting. She asked me for details of the marriage breakdown (at the meeting) and noted down my reasons for divorce. At the same meeting she told me I could divorce for Unreasonable Behaviour. She did a rough calculation of income/outgoings, and discussed the children and access. She also explained about the divorce process. She said she would be going for enough child maintenance to keep the children in their current lifestyles, and spousal maintenance for me (as I had a career in advertising before I had kids, which earned more than H at the time); I stopped working to raise the kids, went into nursing, got qualified, then worked part time - so my earning potential was much lower due to me bringing up kids.

She told me that she would go for more than a 50-50 split on the family home and that it couldn't be sold before youngest turned 18 - she said she would explain more about this at our next meeting, but not to worry about this - we would be able to stay in family home. She discussed mediation, told me it was a hoop to jump to and she would take over the reigns again after my initial meeting - she said I would get legal aid for this. She advised me to apply for tax credits.

She said it was crucial that H starts paying maintenance for me and kids asap and will insist that he/or his solicitor sends detailed accounts and bills of all his outgoings asap.

A week later she emailed me a lot of documents, including a draft letter to H of my intentions, a breakdown of the divorce process, documentation regarding the children to complete, and information about the possible options for the sale of the property/buying him out/etc.

She asked me for a detailed list of the reasons for unreasonable behaviour, which I have completed as well as other documents.

She has sent letter to STBXH, which was brilliant and to the point. She said she will prepare the petition within the next week.

This is within two weeks of my initial one hour free meeting.

Phew! Told you she was good!

Hiya, this thread and wisey moving on apace as usual, and we've even got classical greek (?) vipers, wow!

Saffysmum, you seem to be moving forward too, that's great and your sol sounds dynamic!

Think I'll focus on the mundane as usual! I wouldn't send the post to disgracelands, would just let it all stack up in a damp shed til mediation, then ask him where to send it, and request that he either changes address with all the relevant organisations, or (more simply) arranges mail forwarding from royal mail (is about £40 for 12 months per named person I think).

Wow too, Saffyamum - I am not getting any of that and I'm paying full whack. All ive had are the petition papers - and supplied info on our incomes and outgoings plus he's got the deeds etc to the house. and written a letter to ptm about mediation.

i haven't had feedback on the info I have supplied, nor has he answered any of my questions wrt how i will know what are good proposals for me and what aren't. i'm not getting a decent deal for my money, clearly. o fuck another confrontation coming up. he's just so keen to get me into mediation. it's great that it can be so different though and i am going to mention you as though you're in RL so to speak and see what he has to say.

Just had a long, long talk with DD. She wanted to know everything from the first OW to bridget jones. She told me that for months she used to go to her D and beg him to tell her about the affair she knew he was having and she even promised she wouldn't tell me if he just told the truth (although that's exactly what she intended to do). He wouldn't.

She also told me that a week ago he phoned her and told her that a woman keeps ringing his boss and telling him that ptm is a liar and a cheat (exactly the words used in the anonymous letter). . I swore to DD it's not me and I had no idea (absolutly th honest truth, it's just not my style, but it's clearly someone's preferred way of communicating bad news)
DD says she thinks he could be lying for some reason or other. I don't know what to think - it could be true, there are enough people out there now to want his bollox where his mouth is. oh dear. the net closes in.

shit, i wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

DD also said again that the day before he left she moaned at him about her lunch and he told her he would leave home then and she begged him not to go, but he said he was going to leave. bastard, that's emotional abuse. he's not going to get away with it, i promised DD.

Jesus christ it's never going to stop all the time that man lives and breathes. I cannot believe it. I really can't.

Jesus bloody christ - he's done some fucking low things but that, with DD & lunch, makes me very, very angry. How dare that fucking bastard make DD feel this is in anyway her doing. He really isn't worth the shit on her shoes. Poor, poor baby girl :( She's so young, but I hope she can see through this game playing and see that what he's doing. Wanker.

About the mail, sorry, I didn't make myself very clear. But yes, what I meant was if you are going to mediation you are better to keep things up your sleeve, whether it's to keep him 'on side' or to blindside him at a later point. He thinks you believe he's in London... I see not reason to alert him to the fact that you know he's lying.

I understand what you are saying about treating him like an adult etc - but I see it more like a game of poker, keep your cards to yourself and play them when they will give you the advantage.

Glad the cats OK - even if your credit card isn't!

I don't want to bang on about it either - but now you can see what Saffy's lawyer has actually done, can you see why I was asking if you were happy with your SOL. As I said to you ages ago, my biggest regret is not changing my lawyer who was supposed to be very good and talked the talk at our first meeting but went downhill very quickly. I didn't change because I thought maybe my case wasn't strong enough and I'd spent a lot of money already and didn't want to spend more money getting another one up to speed. I am now convinced I would have been much better off with another lawyer.

Hey Chipping.

Yes, it's awful. God only knows what else is going on but I'm glad we talked. It's ironic that just at the point when you think nothing else can take your breath away, it does, but with our beautiful DD - .

WRT sol - he clearly has a strategy in mind but aside from saying try mediation, I don't know what it is - saving me huge expense, yes I get that, but I'm paying him a huge amount too, and don't feel like I can see where it's going except in a bit of paperwork. But in terms of knowing who mediation is most appropriate for, me and ptm simply don't fit the bill, in any way. I sense he's losing patience with me and I'm losing it with him.

When I speak to the mediator, hopefully tomorrow, I'm going to tell him how concerned I am that this process is going to work against me since no-one has been able to advise me legally on what I can ask for and what I'm likely to get- thus I'm in the dark and scuppered from the outset. I'll ask him what he thinks he can do given he knows absolutely nothing of the background of this divorce and the ongoing turmoil for me and DD.

I'll see what he says.

The address and mail. You're right. I'll keep it up my sleeve for now.

Poor DD - you wonder what else she's keeping to herself :( It's all coming out in dribs & drabs. Honestly, I can't think of words strong enough to describe how awful I think he has been to her (& you) - but to his daughter?? How could he?

I felt like my lawyer/solicitor was losing patience with me too... I wish I'd had the strength to change (but she was the second one I'd seen and I felt like maybe my case wasn't strong enough and it was just me. I have since spoken to other L/S's who said that wasn't the case).

It will be interesting to see what the mediator says.

I think if you can get all of the equity in the house, half of fuckwits pension, him paying the mortgage and the house (new or old) in your name then that would be a reasonable settlement. As long as you aren't responsible for any debt and there is some way of ensuring he pays up. [Half of his net income would be a waste of paper because I can see him 'going on the sick' if that happens and you getting jack shit].