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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

husband kicked DD1, am leaving in the morning

207 replies

lucyintheskywithdinos · 01/04/2011 00:34

I'm sat here in floods, twat is in the other bedroom. Anyone around to keep me company?

We were having a tough bedtime, not unusual. DD1 4 is bouncing happily around, we're both grumpy. She jumps on him, he kicks her. I'm horrified, he doesn't react until after me. Since he has been trying to tell me he 'moved her with his leg' but is now admitting it. DD1 has only just gone to sleep.

Fuck. Am calming down again now, will pack bag tomorrow and go stay with my Mum. What do I need to take? Am going to run to the toilet now.

OP posts:
plopplopquack · 02/04/2011 10:17

Hope that doesn't seem random and that people understand my point!?!

RudeEnglishLady · 02/04/2011 11:20

Where I live its illegal to assault children. Somehow this nation carries on despite all these grey areas, these 'taps', 'spanks', sort ofs...

Anyway, just wanted to add my support to you Lucy. Whatever happens in the future your DD knows that her Mum put her protection as number 1 priority and thats going to be a great feeling. Be proud of yourself x x

plopplopquack · 02/04/2011 12:57

RudeEnglishLady So you are saying that I assulted my child by "sort of" giving her arm a little push in the direction I wanted her to walk in? That's what you are saying?! Maybe I should be put in prison of have y child taken away from me? Good plan.

By the way, where is this magical place you live?

GypsyMoth · 02/04/2011 12:59

where do you live rudeenglishlady??

RudeEnglishLady · 02/04/2011 13:02

There's several magical places - they are in Europe :)

RudeEnglishLady · 02/04/2011 13:04

And isn't it kind of sad that a place has to be magical to outlaw physical punishment?

GypsyMoth · 02/04/2011 13:06

magical??? no place is 'magical'

RudeEnglishLady · 02/04/2011 13:13

Sorry Tiffany, I was responding to the question "where is this magical place that you live?"

I don't really live somewhere magical - although its very nice.

ElenStone · 02/04/2011 15:25

I think every parent has done something that by legal definition could be considered "physical abuse" but I'd say what defines abuse is intent. If you grab a child by the arm with the purpose of steering them to their room because they've misbehaved and they fall over, that's an accident. If you grab them by the arm with the intention of pushing them over, it's abuse.

When DD was an infant and used to try to touch the cooker/fire I'd tap his hand and say "hot", so he learned the association between hot and ouch, without burning himself. That could be defined as abuse, but it was a measured response based on classical behaviourist theories and only used because explanations can't be used to educate children about danger before they are capable of understanding speech and better a tap on the hand than a scalded hand, imo.

Physical punishment and abuse are not the same thing, it's a proven fact that things such as a tap on the hand teach children to avoid specific behaviours, through associating stimulus and response. If done gently and for the right reasons, it is generally beneficial to the child.

wannaBe · 02/04/2011 15:55

wow some massive overreactions on this thread.

Now while one might not condone someone for "kicking" his child (and tbh it sounds as if he moved the child with his leg rather than a full-on kick), this sounds like a one-off incident, and everyone is praising the op for being such a fantastic mummy and keeping her children safefrom the evil bastard, even down to talking about access...?

Of course there might be more to this. Of course the op might just be desparate to get out of this relationship. But given no-one has been made privy to any more about this, surely we can only react on the information we have to go on? And based on the info on this thread it seems like a massive overreaction.

Imagine if someone posted on here "last night I lost it big time and I lashed out at ds. Now dh says it's over and he's taken the kids because he doesn't trust me with them." Would people be saying what a wonderful caring daddy he was for keeping his children safe? Or would they be saying "op, you lashed out, everyone makes mistakes, you know you were in the wrong, and if you feel you lost control you perhaps need to get some help to deal with those issues, but your dh cannot take the children away from their mummy."

Just think about that.

Op - if you want to leave the relationship then leave the relationship. But do it for your own reasons, don't use your children as the cause.

ElenStone · 02/04/2011 16:15

It wasn't a one off though, as she said it was the second time it happened.

Where DS is concerned my response would be the same, one chance and if it happens again you're out. I couldn't take the chance of it escalating and any serious harm coming to him, I wouldn't be able to forgive myself.

helpmeifyoucan · 02/04/2011 16:44

wannaBe - I agree with you. Although he was clearly out of order, it does not appear that the girl was hurt.

zikes · 02/04/2011 16:55

I think second-guessing the OP's decision or what happened is kind of ridiculous. She was there, knows the situation, the context, and what lines were crossed.

We were not there - and know nothing of the previous incident.

I'm inclined to trust the OP's judgement on what the deal-breaker is for her own relationship.

louloudia · 02/04/2011 17:23

good post wannabe

zikes · 02/04/2011 17:31

Presumably following the previous incident, the h was told if he ever touched the child in anger again, it'd be the end.

Now he breaks his commitment to this agreement by kicking the child, and the OP is expected not to stick to her word because what, in some people's opinion (who weren't even there), what he did wasn't bad enough? So what, she gives him more chances?

So her word to protect the children from his violence is seen to be more and more flexible and he has less and less reason to believe she'll act on her word.

If he'd cheated on her once, people wouldn't expect her to keep giving him chances, so why is violence against a child less worthy a reason?!

bemybebe · 02/04/2011 17:45

having read this post in its entirety i agree with wannabe

twopeople · 02/04/2011 17:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

twopeople · 02/04/2011 17:47

This reply has been deleted

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RunAwayWife · 02/04/2011 18:05

Was going to post but I think wannabe has said everything already

wannaBe · 02/04/2011 18:23

how many people smack their children as a one-off. I would hazzard a guess that it is most of the population.

We're not talking about a child having been given a beating here - we're talking about two incidents where a parent has lashed out at their child in the space of two years.

If the op wants to end her relationship then that's her perogative.

But the waving of pitchforks at a man who has done what almost every other parent has done is out of order.

"So her word to protect the children from his violence is seen to be more and more flexible and he has less and less reason to believe she'll act on her
word." don't be so ridiculous. Clearly he was in the wrong for lashing out like that - that's not in dispute. but we're talking about two incidents in two years not a sustained campaign of violence.

"who weren't even there" exactly. So while we don't know how this incident occurred from the father's point of view we equally don't know that the op didn't overreact. People shouldn't be praising the op for being a fantastic mummy any more than they should be labelling her husband as a violent bastard, because... nobody was there.

kerstina · 02/04/2011 18:24

Agree with wanabee to a certain extent but think the OP should trust her instincts. However if the DH is normally a caring, loving dad surely anger management lessons or counseling would be better than just giving up on the family unit.
I am a qualified nursery nurse and so hitting a child in my care would be illegal no matter how naughty a child may be. I can honestly say I have never been close to hitting my own child either (he has been easy compared to all the challenging children I have looked after in the past!) but it does worry me that it could be an absolute one off and a child is hit and then partner leaves. Surely not necessarily the best outcome for the child ?

garlicbutter · 02/04/2011 21:23

This is in the original post: She jumps on him, he kicks her. I'm horrified, he doesn't react until after me. Since he has been trying to tell me he 'moved her with his leg' but is now admitting it. Funny how some readers of this thread know what the father did better than he himself does Hmm

I don't think it'd be that great to teach a toddler you should forgive people who kick you.

louloudia · 02/04/2011 22:12

i whacked mine once with a wooden spoon

i felt worse when i shouted at him tbh

mathanxiety · 02/04/2011 22:29

Hats off to you Lucy. You are doing the right thing.

There is no 'pov' that can excuse the kicking of a child by a grown man, imo.

thumbwitch · 02/04/2011 22:38

zikes - I agree with your point - it's the same as following through on punishments with toddlers really. Say it and mean to follow through with it - if you're not prepared to follow through, then don't say it.

OP has said it, meant it and followed through with it - if she then chooses later to reconcile with her OH, on the condition that no such thing ever happens again, that's up to her; but in the meantime she has done what she said she would do to protect her DD. Good for her!