Lundy Bancroft

[exhausted2011]

Feel like I need a bloody great highlighter pen, and then throw the thing at DH.
Reading this on the tube, open mouthed. Unbelievable. About 95% is spot on.
I can't help him can I?

Breakfree, he really sounds like an absolute nightmare.
you must be feeling desperate.
Where are your family? and you really should try and get some more help from GP.
And you could try womens aid.
If he is so angry, and sounds miserable,and you are no the way you used to be, why doesn't he just go.
Obviously that's easier said than done, but if he is ranting and raving like that, what would he do if you just said "fine, leave then"?

I am making the most of this week without my husband, haven't even spoken to him today.
Been sorting out the house, cleaning, organising. DS and I had lovely time in the park with ice cream!

I went out for the day with the kids and only came back to put them to bed. Then I went to bed myself - here i am. My parents don't have the room for me and the kids unfortunately and its far from where the kids go to school and I don't have a car so its not doable for me to leave and live there even my mother agrees its not realistic.
I have asked him several times to leave. I have begged and pleaded. I've told him I don't love him. I've told him I don't want him here. He followed me here in the first place not the other way around. This is my hometown. He hasn't a job or friends to keep him here. He claims he has a right to stay here as much as I do and they are his kids so he's not going anywhere.
He pays nothing towards the house or the kids. I scrimp to cover everything. He recently took out a loan to buy a new laptop. He doesn't work and what jobs he does on the side is what he pays his loans with. I was mortified when my parents called over and saw it because I owe them some money but what could I do or say. He would just rant and rave and scream at me if I had told him I didn't agree with him getting one.
I was called every name you can think of today. From evil to wicked to sick for asking for help. I remember blurting out in anger how depressed I've been for weeks and he hasn't even noticed and he looked at me with such disgust and disdain as if I was making everything up. He said I was unbelievable and he would tell everyone what a sick individual I was.
Then he saw I was leaving and told me if I'd any decency I'd leave him some cigarettes. A few minutes later he came in claimed I should give him money because he had none to travel to visit his daughter. I couldn't make this up. I really think he has some sort of mental illness. split personality or something. He can go from 0-psycho in 10seconds and back again to insanity.
I have to say, if this doesn't end soon I'm afraid it'll be the end of me because I think I will end up insane too.

Breakfree, have YOU read Why Does He Do That? I actually started it last night

So far chapter one and I'm nodding. I have told him it's over, but he still thinks it's a relationship.

I wonder if you can give him 'notice' as it were, a letter setting out the fact that you are struggling to make ends meet, financially, physically and emotionally and he is actually working AGAINST you on every area you need help with. Tell him he has to leave so that you can get additional help IN, either a carer or a lodger, but that there is no space for him.

Tell him you won't leave him any cigarettes, you will however buy him a train ticket. To leave.

You won't end up insane. Mad people don't think they are mad.... You may end up depressed, but usually that is down to an imagined feeling of the world being crap around you, when life around you really IS crap, you are justified in feeling low, so it's not depression if you see what I mean!

That was, I think, the reason I didn't actually get depressed in Egypt, I really WAS surrounded by animals, I really WAS isolated, and everyone around me DID treat me as if they hated me.

If there is a danger time for me, if I'm being brutally honest, it's now. Now that he's gone, now that mum is NOT helping, is avoiding any contact with me because I might be stressed, upset or low. No shit sherlock. She's also saying she might not be able to watch DS during the holidays when I have work appointments. I'm on MoodWatch with myself, I might call the Drs in a couple of weeks if this doesn't lift.

My friend sent me a poem by Mary Oliver last night. Thought I'd share it:

The Journey
One day you finally knew
what you had to do, and began,
though the voices around you
kept shouting
their bad advice--
though the whole house
began to tremble
and you felt the old tug
at your ankles.
"Mend my life!"
each voice cried.
But you didn't stop.
You knew what you had to do,
though the wind pried
with its stiff fingers
at the very foundations,
though their melancholy
was terrible.
It was already late
enough, and a wild night,
and the road full of fallen
branches and stones.
But little by little,
as you left their voices behind,
the stars began to burn
through the sheets of clouds,
and there was a new voice
which you slowly
recognized as your own,
that kept you company
as you strode deeper and deeper
into the world,
determined to do
the only thing you could do--
determined to save
the only life you could save.

I like that Hissy

She sent me this one too:

Wild Geese

You do not have to be good.
You do not have to walk on your knees
for a hundred miles through the desert repenting.
You only have to let the soft animal of your body
love what it loves.
Tell me about despair, yours, and I will tell you mine.
Meanwhile the world goes on.
Meanwhile the sun and the clear pebbles of the rain
are moving across the landscapes,
over the prairies and the deep trees,
the mountains and the rivers.
Meanwhile the wild geese, high in the clean blue air,
are heading home again.
Whoever you are, no matter how lonely,
the world offers itself to your imagination,
calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting

over and over announcing your place
in the family of things

Woman's Aid: Anyone got any experience of it?

I'm not in danger any more, I'm not IN an abusive relationship day to day any more, but I have no RL talking help. I wondered if they'd be OK with me calling them? Or if not them, who? Samaritans?

My mum has bailed on me mentally and now physically, and I can't talk to anyone really.

I'm an ex depressive, and the shock of my mum not being there is actually hitting me hard. I worry that HE won't bring me down, but SHE will. I feel DREADFUL at the moment, really awfully low.

So far no other symptoms, and I know that I will naturally feel bad, but I just didn't see this coming.

Yes, you can talk to Women's Aid even after leaving. You can talk on the phone or you might be able to visit an outreach worker.

Don't know if you're working - if so, it's worth checking if there is any option of counselling through work (probably a long shot, but I got it and it was fantastic).

Sorry your mother is being so crap. You deserve better. Can't think of any advice, really, so here's a sympathetic squeeze of the hand. The only way out is through.

I am saddened by the amount of women suffering at the hands of abusive men. I too was in this position and it took years to get rid of him. Keep going strong ladies and fight for your freedom. It is not easy at all, one step at a time does it. Thinking of you all

Thanks Nickname & Feisty!

I'm self employed, so no chance of work based stuff, but will keep an eye on myself. I know what to look for at least.

feisty, I know what you mean, it's disgusting how some men feel entitled to do to their partners, and what's the statistic 25% of relationships are abusive? Or did I imagine that?

It's always worth hanging onto the fact though that MN Relationships is a minority view. Women in perfectly happy relationships with no issues whatsoever, would tend not to be here. I'm usually here to support if I can, but to learn and to lean once in a while. I'm so grateful. MN gave me the strength to stick to my guns as it were.

At least I have hope. At least I can choose how to spend my life. At least I don't have to have some pair of bollocks crapping on my otherwise cheerful enough day. At least I know where I can go/turn to if I need to talk it out.

That's a million times better than my life as it was.

Hissy your description of depression is actually so right. Thank you for your support and kindness. If anything, finding this place to talk has helped me somewhat to know that I am not alone in what I feel.
I am sorry to hear about your relationship with your mother. In my own experience my parents had always been supportive but now its turned into more the boy who cried wolf because I never leave and I guess they are fed up with me. I have the book I've read it and read it over and over again but I stil find myself stuck to the spot.
We haven't spoken since yesterday but he has done his usual day after a blow out. I slept it this morning prob due to the fact that I've had sleeping tablet ear plugs and a bed to myself, so when I woke up ten minutes before school was due to start in a panic I went to the spare room and asked him was I always supposed to get them up and out myself. He got up and I got them sorted and he took them to school, he made some under his breath comments which he made sure I was in earshot to hear. I was so groggy I don't even remember what they were only that they related to the row the day before. I was exhausted and sore and I took myself back to bed. When I woke up again it was 3pm and he had already gone and collected them. I guess that sounds really lazy but I just couldn't move. I didn't realise I had needed that much sleep and still I am here exhausted. He handed me a cup of tea. Now he is speaking the odd few times to me as if nothing had happened but I know it hasn't been let go either. Not that it should be in the first place. I haven't forgotten either this time or any other time he has been so nasty to me. All I know is the next time that switch goes in his head this will all be rehashed and moulded into a new row on top of whatever else he is trying to fight with me about at the same time.

I just want to say thankyou for listening to my rambling and moaning. This place in itself is a little escape for the few minutes I get to log on during the day.

Honey, I had ONE friend when I was living in Egypt, we would manage to meet up once, maybe twice a month. 'H' didn't really allow more than that, but we were text mates and would be chatting all day. She kept me going, she kept me sane. This was the friend that X tried to ruin the friendship with. He always used to moan about his ExW and her friend, and how friends ruined the marriage. Hmm, I wonder now why her friend told her to meet him in a neutral place the last time he wanted to talk to her. He met her in a refuge for DV victims, she was with him for 8yrs. He said he never beat her, but I'm guessing she was so traumatised, she never put her self in the firing line. Betting he did control her though... I'll never know now....

Gah, your description of the row aftermath is so stereotypical. Isn't it a total BORE to have to put up with this? That's what I used to think, it's so needless, pointless and as you say, a fore-taste of the rows to come.

One day you will have the strength to say, Actually, I deserve an apology. Actually, your cup of tea is nice, but it's a drop in the ocean.

Are you afraid of him?

Meditate on this: what IS he actually going to do to you? if violence is not in the picture and he is going to verbally attack you and perhaps intimidate you, then surely you can say, Actually NO, that's not on. Admitted, I was only able to say any of that when I'd had 8m here in the UK on my own.

The pain condition is clearly not helping, of course that's going to weaken you and your resolve. You are going to have to dig deep, deeper than you have ever dug before to get the strength to stand up for yourself, but you are worth it. Your children are worth it, and your life is worth it.

You are a work in progress, if you are serious about getting him out of your life, you have to commit to that and enlist all the RL help you can.

breakfree, my advice would be not to engage with him, just stay out of his way. I wouldn't try and argue with him, or stand up for yourself, I would just get on with it. But I guess if you really need him to contribute, then that's a bit difficult.

Hissy, was that his exW, that he met in a refuge, bit confused sorry.
I phoned Women's aid a couple of times, once when he was trying to kick me out, and then to get some advice, but just went to the solicitor instead.

Yes it was his ExW he met in a refuge (hotel in london that they were sent to as an overflow)

I went to WA for counselling Hissy after he left.When i was living with him I phoned WA several times.Also saw samaritans mentioned on here recently when u just need to talk.

Breakfree,
I had to leave my home due to landlord selling up ,my new flat is free of Xs bad vibe .I thought it would be much worse ,but moving into my own place has brought my family peace and really given us a new start.I broke my heart about leaving my cottage ,but Ive not looked back x

This is my story ladies (I used to post as mumofthreesweeties) My ex and I split up 10 years ago due to always walking around egg shells, being told everything was my fault, being chastised for wearing red nail varnish, clothes that were too tight, friends calling me all the time, not bathing in time for him coming back from work so that I would be fresh for my man. Oh Lord, the list is endless - this is just the tip of the iceberg

Throughout all this time I was made to feel the unreasonable one, the mouthy one, the stupid one and to this day I believed it. I met him when I was 18 and he was 22, we were together for seven years and these seven years have now sadly defined who I am today - a nervous, lacking in confidence and self esteem woman. I lack assertiveness and always feel that if I say no then I am an awful bitch. TBH I had never even analysed myself at all because I believed it to be true UNTIL I came to the relationships thread and read that it is emotional abuse. I think that is what has affected me badly that I loved and trusted this man and he unbeknown to myself abused my trust. I feel so angry and hurt and abused.

Even after we split he controlled and bullied me through our DS culminating in the 'kidnap' he did of our DS over the summer when he refused to bring him back home and I had to go to court. Apparently this was because our DS got bullied at school and that was my fault, how I have no idea. I remember when he forced me to have an abortion when I was 20 and I cried my eyes out as I didnt want to do it but he managed to manipulate me to a point that I felt I was being unreasonable and only thinking of myself. Throughout or relationship we split so many times and he would promise to change and be mr nice guy, buy me loads of things until he wormed his way again into manipulating me. One time he accused me of poisoning him when he became sick; constantly told me that I was lucky to have him as his mum thought I was no good.

I wish I had known about Womens Aid then as each time I split I was too weak and always took him back.

Herhissyness - are you LMHF

Breakfree, have just read your post about the argument. Your H is absolutely twisted and you certainly need to breakfree from him. Is there any chance you could try WA. He sounds just like my ex, the disdain and disgust on their faces when talking just make you feel like you are rubbish. I remember those feelings clearly. I tried so many times to break free from him but he would always worm his way back promising to change and then after a few hours it would be back to the game playing, name calling again.

I really feel your pain, if that is your house can you not get him to leave by calling the police or something. He just sounds absolutely mental. Having said that the day I kicked my ex out for good he was refusing to leave so I packed all his clothes and left them outside the house and asked for my keys back. He refused and there was a little scuffle wherein I injured my arm but got my keys back. To this day my son, who was 2 then has never forgotten that scuffle. Even after leaving he kept on pestering me threatening to kill himself if I didnt take him back and that if his mother found out that we had broken up there would be no chance for us to get back together again. This time I did not fall for it and I eventually broke free from his control.

It is really tough

feisty, that sounds awful, I'm really sorry you had to go through all that, and sorry that seems to have affected your personality. have you had any therapy?

Hissy, how are you feeling today as you were feeling quite low the other day. Did you manage to speak with WA about your feelings. Can you arrange for counselling? Earlier you mentioned that you call your ex so that your DS can speak with him. Is it possible for you to put this on hold for a while so that you can deal with your emotions and just communicate via email? I found that each time I received a text or call from my exh it really pushed me over the edge emotionally so I am very pleased that there is no contact anymore and I do not feel obliged to communicate with him at all re our DS. Maybe that could help. The only way that your ex will get out of thinking you are still in a relationship is to maybe change your number or get another sim card for communication with him only - or restrict contact to email only.

You might be feeling bad for your son that he is not with his dad etc, but that is not your fault. If his dad had been a good dad then he would be in both your lives right now. Concentrate on getting yourself better, and only when you do feel better you can resume the telephone contact. I have found that I am now in a better place mentally due to the fact that I do not have to speak with my exh at all. My DS doesnt want anything to do with him and a judge agreed with no contact.

exhausted2011, thanks... It has been an awful time, the kidnap only happened last summer so yes I have been undergoing some therapy which has been really useful. How are things with you today?

i'm a bit low actually.
h is away, and haven't really spoken to him.
but i just feel alone.
i haven't actually spoken to anyone other than ds all week

Breakfree, I don't know what options you have for support if your unspeakable H wasn't there, but he does sound like a very poor excuse for a carer as most of the time either you have to end up doing things for yourself or, when you absolutely can't, you are berated and insulted and made to feel emotionally bad along with your physical discomfort. I agree with the earlier comment that you might actually feel less pain, or at least be better able to cope with it, if he wasn't there dragging you down.

I am actually disgusted with his attitude to his daughter's rape. He's made it all about himself, something that's been done to him, that he needs support for. He is actually not the victim here (believe it or not) and however understandably upset and angry he feels it doesn't give him the right to behave like an arse to everybody else. It's not like you attacked the poor child or even through your neglect allowed it to happen. It is also not like you can switch off your pain until he's got over his upset. You're not trying to trump his agony with your own. One of the important people in his life has had something awful happen to them, but meanwhile the others still need the same level of care. Life has to go on. When one of your DCs is sick you don't stop feeding the others, do you! (Or do you?!)

Being nice the day after a massive row is so typical of abusive relationships too. You will of course have read it in the Bancroft but there are also several articles regularly cited here about the cycle of abuse. I even observed it, but failed to work out what was really going on, in my own relationship, which let me tell you wasn't nearly as bad as the several dreadful ones described on this thread. (Mind you I probably had a few jolly extras that you didn't, to make up for it! Abuse bingo, not as much fun as it sounds.)

Sorry to hear that exhausted, that can make one feel really downhearted not having someone else to talk to. Do you not have any family or friends you can speak with? or maybe going to some toddler groups (not sure how old your DS is btw). What are you going to do about H when he returns? I know how you feel and massive unmumsnet hugs your way

Hissy, thank you so much for the poems. The Wild Geese one gives me scary chills - despite all my hard work, I'm still trying to be good and "walking through the desert". While I do believe this is a necessary part of my process, I'm still over-punishing myself for my "failures" (which aren't failures, really, more like misjudgements.)

I'm going to join a family of geese!