Recovery after an affair

[sheba2288]

After taking huge adviceand comfort, and despite Robberbutton's change in situation, I know there are a couple of us 'survivors' out there. So this is a thread in which I hope we can help survive together.

Brief background on my situ - been with H for 20plus years, married with 2 DCs. H had affair with work colleague last year. I discovered last July. Had a rough summer/autumn, 2 close relatives' deaths added to our turmoil.

Since this Feb, there has been a turning point (thanks to MN advice), and things are starting to be a lot more positive. However.... I am often felt let down and hurt. When does it all go away????

Hello all, I have only just seen this thread - thanks for starting it Sheba and I hope you're ok. I agree it is helpful to read others' experiences and not feel so alone in it (though of course I wish none of us were in this situation)

Although AFAIK he has broken off all private contact with ow (still sees her at work, which I hate), says he is committed to trying to rebuild our marriage and has made a lot of changes, he isn't doing all the things I need him to do and some days it is like torture being with him. Six months on I don't know if I will ever get past it. Sometimes I look at him feel nothing but anger, sometimes deep sadness and disappointment that the man I chose to marry has turned out like this. And yet sometimes I can put it to one side and enjoy time with him.

To answer your question amicable: at first I felt I owed it to the children to see if there was anything there worth saving. Now the immediate crisis is over I can see that if we do get past this we could have a good marriage. I just don't know if we will manage it, or if he can be the man I want and need him to be.

What will make you decide one way or the other, amicable?

star - every time I have an outburst I am so full of remorse and self loathing, it's almost worse than the resentment against him for what he did. Like you we have come such a long way, I feel that there is light at the end of the tunnel and it's within reach. It's maybe not the tunnel I thought I was travelling down but it's really not all bad. A lot of things are much better. If we'd carried along the route we were on pre discovery, we would be in a worse place just now.

tsl, think we are on the same roller coaster. Sometimes I look at him and am so filled with love for the man I met as a teenager and who shares a lifetime of history with me. Othertimes I am filled with vitriol and hatred (hence plate throwing), then it's disappointment and the tears come. It's so hard, but I can honestly say that the bad moments are getting fewer and further between.

amicable good luck

Feeling sorry, properly "repenting" (lit. A change of mind which leads to a change of actions, to get all religious on your arses ) is SO important, and it was something my H never demonstrated. It was one of the things that everyone posting on my original robberbutton thread picked up on - he just wasn't sorry. Of course he wasn't, he was still in the middle of it. I always thought that if he was I would be able to feel it, and I couldn't admit to myself that he just didn't.

Another here who felt I owed it to the DC to try and save the marriage so if it didn't work, I could look them all in the I and say I did everything I possibly could to make it work. TBH me and the DC were so traumatised by what DH did (basically upped and left in a day w/o much warning) that I felt we all needed to cleeve together to repair if that makes sense.

The DC are still very insecure two years down the line, getting anxious if daddy is home late from work, or goes out straight from work etc. They need constant reassurance, daddy is coming back at such and such time, he will be here when you wake in the morning.

DH winses everytime DS4 asks if he is coming back tonight if he goes out. It is so obvious the damage he has done to them. Don't believe anyone who says children aren't damaged by it.

Also, one of the reasons I was trying was for him. I knew he would be throwing his life away. I knew he would bitterly bitterly regret it one day. I bloody loved him and just wanted to help him not destroy his life and the lives of everyone close to him.

Gah.

Thanks for your replies. One of the main reasons I am having this renewed feeling that I should give it (yet another) go is because of the children. But I also feel like the worlds biggest mug, I have given him several chances since d-day, and each time he has proved to be a liar. So why should I believe him now? I desperately wanted it to work after d-day, thought we could fix it, but again and again he lied, until any hope for trust just lay shattered in a million pieces. And yet I am still here, going round in circles.

I mirror exactly all your reasons (again) suff, and just like you, as you know, my H has never fully 'repented' or been sorry enough. Of course he has my affair to deal with, but I do wonder if I had not done that, just how sorry would he be anyway?

Sorry to hear about your DC countingto10, that is really sad. Part of my worry about us trying again is that to bring daddy back into the house, only for him to leave again if we fail would just be so appalling. I just wonder if it's best for them to have one clean break. Especially as 2 of them are too little to be really bothered by it at the moment. If we try, but he cheats again in a few years, they will ALL be old enough to be damaged by him leaving again.

I don't know what will make me decide twostraightlines, in fact I worry that I am incapable of making a decision, because I am so guilty about the children. That I am just waiting for him to run off with the OW, but even then will I feel that we are finished. Don't know why I have become so pathetic!

thanks cloudybay, I suppose the hope is that the angry moments eventually become so spread out that it doesn't matter any more. But I just don't know if we'll ever get there. Feel so trapped by the pain in all directions / decisions. Damned if I stay with him and damned if I don't. Not that he is even offering to 'stay with me' anyway!!!! God, I am such a mug.

stargazy, hopeful rather than desperate sounds a good place to be, good luck

You're not a mug, amicable, if only because I'm not a mug either!

If I was you though, I would definitely stay living apart for AGES. Get right back to basics. Just see each other a few times a week, start dating, go to counselling, find out if the two of you really do want to be together. If you manage to make it through all that, if he's faithful in the little things, when you come to the bigger decisions it might be slightly easier to face the trust issue.

That's what I am daydreaming about would do, anyway :(

(Ugh, smacks hand for being so pathetic. My H is not even pretending not to see OW. Back off to the chin up thread )

Hi Ladies. Haven't been on MN all day, and was surprised that there's been a flurry of activity (if you can call it that)!

Amicable so sorry to hear your update. I'm not sure what to comment as I feel you already know deep down. And since I have made my decision to 'recover', it may sound a bit too hypocritcal to suggest to you anything other. But regards to your question why - I am sure that my DCs were my main reason, as they had already gone through months of seeing us arguing and generally not getting on. I had even gone to the point of trying to prepare my older child that seperation was virtually inevitable, and the pain that I saw in her will always haunt me. I do think that I would have taken what I consider to be the easier route out and chucked him, had we not had DCs.

But I can relate to what Suff mentioned. I have stopped H from making the most stupid mistake of his life. He has confessed to me that he really didn't have the capability to see what he was doing to us at the time, so engrossed with the ego-massaging that the OW was doing. At the point of discovery, it was much easier for him to just walk away, which is exactly what he wanted to do. Just to walk away and hide. Not only did I save him, I've felt that I've also preserved his sodding reputation as so little people know in RL. And for that, I sometimes feel a mug.

However, for that past 6/7 weeks, I have seen him show remorse. He can openly talk about it, when he feels low, and he is starting to understand my down times as well, which previously he found very hard to cope with. Immediate reaction before would be 'wouldn't it be easier for you to throw me out?' - and I refused. Last reason why I chose this path is the corny one of there still being love. We have been together over 2 decades, through good times and some downright awful times too. We've been fortunate in work and been able to reap awards for that. One of the things I kept bantering onto H about OW (she was on the prowl for at least 4 years) that I could see just that she just wanted what we had - family with 2.2 children with nice house, and a generally good life. I was not going to concede to that bunny boiling bitch!

Although I found out in July about the affair, I can honestly say that it was only in Feb that things have improved. I have to remind myself that this is the case, as beforehand H was not repentant or sorry enough. I remember WWIFN having huge doubts about our relationship at the time. So, even though I started this thread claiming to be a 'survivor' I certainly class myself as having 'passed' the exam yet - not sure if term of phrase is correct as it is really H who has to pass, but hope you all get my drift!

I really think it is a process of their feelings that take about 6 months from discovery, that they have detached so much to give themselves permission for the affair that it almost takes them the same time to reattach, and that reattachment does take work for both of us. As my DH moved out for a while, I didn't have to watch him struggle so much with his feelings, when we were together we could concentrate on us and the DC - dating again if you like. The seperation at the time was terrible for me (with 4DSs) but in hindsight, it did help.

Sheba I could have written the bit about preserving his reputation. It gets to me that so few people know, particularly in his family. Spending time with friends and family who don't know is torture because they all think he's a good bloke. And spending time with people who do know is just as hard because I feel like a mug for still being with him.

Glad to hear you're seeing progress in your H. I hope mine starts showing some of the same honourable behaviour. As it is mine won't say the word "regret" and has had nothing negative to say about OW, apart from admitting that he wasn't in love with her now and probably never was, despite believing the contrary. He still finds her attractive, apparently, and she is still on the prowl - our counsellor spotted that fact as quickly as I did - and those combined factors have brought back a whole load of vulnerabilities that I thought were dispensed with. He says it is all clear in his head - he doesn't want her and that is that - but actions speak louder etc and I have no way of knowing what is really going on at work.

Amicable I fear you and I are in the same place. part of me thinks it is pointless carrying on because it is wearing me out (not sleeping enough) and he might never be the man I need after all this stress. Another part believes that there is so much he needs to change about himself that it can't happen overnight. I still have hope and there is still love there, which is as good a basis as any I suppose.

Re-reading my post last night, I meant to say 'I certainly DON'T class myself as passed yet'! T'was a late post!

TSL - damn annoying isn't it? Pretending to all who don't know, H is such a loving husband, life & soul of a gathering, when I could scream from the rooftops sometimes. Those who know, outside my immediate family, are his workplace colleagues and some work associates, in an environment where affairs are commonplace, and since his affair has ended, I have not seen any of them at all.

Counting - I couldn't bring myself to let H leave at the time. He wanted to go, and we have talked since, that in hindsight, I wished I did. Our DCs at the time were so vulnerable, and for about 4 weeks, I couldn't function apart from dressing them, making anything to go with oven chips, and trying to be OK in front of them. We both felt that it delayed our initial recovery, as he was resentful that I kind of blackmailed him into staying. But his initial response the day after I found out, was to phone the bitch and ask her 'if she was in?' - he admits he didn't have a clue WTF he was doing, but running away was the only way out. And if I had said yes, move out, I don't think we would be here today, as the BBB (aka OW) would have nabbed him. The one big thing for him is that he struggles to take in what he did, ie when he actually sits down to think about last year, he can become a crumbling wreck. Initally it was one whole 'feeling sorry for himself' and 'we were arguing all the time' - but now he ihas turned the corner to recognise that HE was the one who made the decision and he has to be the one who has to prove himself. And I am told of his regret quite often now.

That said, I too, am trying to make more of an effort. I haven't bought oven chips for months (well not to feed my kids, only their fussy friends who come over for tea!), and generally, we are planning each weekend a few days beforehand. Two months ago, we didn't even dare to say what we were doing as we didn't know how we would be. It was our DD who suggested walking on a Sunday (this is a teenager who normally would love to slob around in PJs and be on FB, watching TV all day), and since we have had really enjoyable hikes/walks as a foursome. Something we recognised we were not doing as a family as much before. The DCs are just so happy having this big family Sunday.

TSL Amicable you both need to get to a point whereby your Hs' are going to decide to commit or not. Easier said than done, I know. For months, my H just 'existed', maybe Counting is right, there is an initial period of absolute unstableness . I expected my H to be so sorry and regretful from Day 1 but to see him, trying to forget and just 'move on' (I hate that phrase!) but actions from him initally wasn't relaying what was coming out of his mouth. IE he wasn't putting up boundaries with OW (still a bloody work colleague) - classic Shirley Glass analogy!

For once, I'm quite proud I plucked up the courage to actually start this thread. Typing all this out and reading back your stories has been quite catharic (sp?)

It is so comforting to read this thread because it all sounds so familiar and helps me to understand that what I feel isn't unusual and that it's okay to not just feel that I can move on.

Amicable - so sorry you're hurting like this. Our marriage was rocky long before my dh's EA. He had other women friends before the one that he eventually slept with - after I kicked him out - but he swears that they were just friendships made through work and that nothing physical happened. He couldn't see that these sorts of friendships were inappropriate - until I asked how he would feel if I did the same thing. Oddly enough he didn't like that idea .

I wonder whether sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you can start to re-build a marriage. I don't think things could have got any worse for us. Divorce was definitely an option - and he knew that. I think the fact that on the very day I kicked him out I saw a solicitor really shocked him into seeing for the first time that an EA/affair had serious repercussions. Until then it was a bit of fun, someone to pay him lots of attention (which I wasn't) and someone to massage his substantial ego. Which I didn't do.

I first found out about OW two days before a family trip to Centre Parcs. It was a horrible time. He was still enamoured of her at that point, although hadn't yet slept with her. But she was his priority. At the time (and I hadn't told him) I'd found a lump in my breast and was waiting for it to be checked out. He was mortified and the fact that he could lose me permanently really seemed to concentrate his mind.

He ended it, but she pursued him relentlessly and, of course, he was flattered (stupid man) and he did eventually see her again. I found out and as far as I was concerned that was it. He had to go. I allowed him back to pick up his clothes but our relationship was over.

He moved out for a few months during which time he seemed to recognise what he was doing and he did finally end it. But it took a long time before I considered taking him back.

And a year later our relationship still isn't what it was before. And I don't think it ever will be. He's not the person I married and I'm certainly not the person he married because of what he did. I'm more cynical, less trusting and I don't know if things will ever recover completely.

I wonder sometimes whether it wouldn't have been better to just end it at the time - but I love him, he loves me and his children have been traumatised enough by their previous experiences.

So we muddle along.

Jays wales, you deserve a medal (at least) for what you've been through!
What I'll never understand ( and this is probably not the thread to ask it on) is what makes a woman behave the way ows ( in general) do? The way they won't give up. (My H's ow kept trying to re establish contact for 4 months) he had told her it was over, he was recommitting to the marriage, etc.,I know each one is different but why don't they give up, feel guilt ?
Is it because they believe they they are destined to be with him, or somesuch rubbish?

My husband's OW had been treated badly her husband but they stayed together because he was extremely wealthy and she liked the comforts that being with someone like that brought with it. And it was convenient I suppose. An available baby sitter so that she could go off and do her own thing. Apparently she was making him pay. A marriage of convenience.

She was very used to getting what she wanted and - being of the younger, slimmer variety - thought that there was no way she was going to lose out to an older woman. Clearly she thought that older equated to old granny - as my sons call it! She just couldn't understand why he would chose me over her and when he did finally end it with her she caused an almighty scene and had some very choice words to say to him. Ultimately she was a foul mouthed - if pretty - old slapper! Who couldn't get what she wanted so na na nana na . Mind you, having seen a photograph of her I couldn't get over her resemblance to a horse!!

What she hadn't bargained for was that she was just a bit of fluff for him - pretty to look at but no real substance. And oh my god, so irritating. Don't you just loathe those woman who play the helpless woman thing. I can't bear them. And simpered and called him 'baby'. The whole thing made me feel like vomitting. Stupid, silly and weak woman. And him too.

Aislingorla - I asked the same question about the ow in our lives. Why didn't she give up/get the message? (DH had sex with her once but she continued to pester him for over a year afterwards). I think, in the ow's eyes, the fact that a man is prepared to risk his marriage and the happiness of his wife and children means that she must be somebody really really special to him. (The fact that, certainly in my dh's case he never in a million years expected to be found out is irrelevant to her). Coming from that stance it's then easy to misconstrue what she is subsequently being told. Especially, as in my dh's case, when it is coming from someone who wants everyone to like him, doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy, doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings etc etc.

My dh proudly showed me an old text shortly after discovery in which he'd said something to the ow along the lines of, "I do care, but this is never, ever going to go anywhere". He saw it as evidence of him pushing the ow away. I only saw the first 3 words - as I'm sure she did. She probably thought what he really meant was that, he cared about her and if circumstances were different he'd be with her like shot. In my dh's case he was basically just crap at getting the message across that nothing more was going to happen. His excuse for such feebleness is that, because the ow was someone we saw socially, he felt he had to maintain some sort of 'normal' relationship with her. He was also worried that she was becoming increasingly obsessive and might spill the beans so he felt he couldn't risk upsetting her. Finally of course, there was a huge element of sticking his head in the sand and hoping that she would just go away.

My H's was younger but 'what a dog's dinner'? Loads of make up and always dressed like she's going to a ball! Like wales' H's, she couldn't believe he chose to come back to me over her. I saw all (most of?) their emails and texts where she told him he was extraordinary, wonderful and sexy! All fantasy, as affairs thrive on.
Now (almost 2 years on) he so wishes she did not exist!
But do they not feel quilt?

Oh dear. I promised myself I wouldn't butt in here because I'm aware I can dominate affair threads and get in the way of posters being honest about the realities of how they are feeling.

But to me, there is an elephant lurking within some of the recent posts. The reason that lots of OW don't give up is because the man doesn't really want her to. He is still getting something from the continued attention and adoration and that's why he's sending mixed messages and making statements that could be interpreted in lots of different ways.

Of course a resistance to having difficult conversations and telling people exactly how it is, are among the behaviours and character traits that permitted the affair in the first place, but believe me, if you really wanted someone out of your life and to give up hope, you would leave no room for manouevre. Catwalker's experience is a little different, because I can see how your H was trying to smooth things over with the OW out of terror that she would spill the beans, but even then as you know, I think your H was still getting something from the continued attention.

The OWs that don't give up after discovery though - well, I think I would question just how unequivocal a message they were getting from the men. I think they failed to retreat because they were getting an impression that there was still a chink. Sorry.

Hello, all. Sorry to butt in on your thread.

H had an online fling with a woman in October. He was spectacularly bad at hiding it and I found out a week after it started.

I'm having a hard time at the moment. He did all the right things after it all came out - counselling, begging, making changes. As time has gone on, though, things have slipped, and we have the same arguments that we always had. He's trying, but I can't help but feel that it just isn't good enough.

I'm trying hard to not keep punishing him. I'm not really angry any more, and I feel that it isn't really about the infidelity these days. But what has happened has changed how I see him, and how I feel about me. I feel differently about what sort of person he is. I feel jaded, and I'm struggling to see if we will stay together for the long term.

Oh I think you're right there. A lot of men love the attention that they get from the OW - mine included - and can't seem to see past that. They seem to be able to compartmentalise their lives - fun with the OW on the one hand, and routine and domesticity with the wife and children on the other. And never the twain shall meet. Except they do meet and that's when the shit hits the fan. They never think they're going to get found out. They underestimate us wives at their peril.

I do though think that they have to be ready themselves to end the affair and no amount of yelling or screaming from us is going to make a man end an affair. He has to want to do it. And sometimes that only happens when circumstances force him to sit up and think about the consequences of their actions. Because they don't do that. They don't think any further ahead than what they're doing right now with OW.

When real life intrudes hopefully they start to see things diffferently.

My dh did see the OW after he'd ended it. But I'm sure he was ambivalent. And weak. She pursued him and flattered him and 'understood' him. Yeah, right. Because of course the wife doesn't understand. Well, do you what - actually we do understand. All too well.

My dh had to make the decision himself to end it and it was only seeing clearly all the hurt and pain that he'd caused me and his children that opened his eyes.

He is different now. I'm different now. We are different together and we make more of an effort to be together and to do things together. It's not easy with three small children and no babysitters. My parents elderly and ill and with one child with behavioural difficulties life is tough sometimes.

When my dh called OW in front of me after she'd called him her response was priceless! And she showed herself for the bitch she really was!!

When, in my case, my H. had completly stopped contacting the ow. The message was plain and simple.However, for about 3 months after discovery, she occasionly emailed him, usually work related , but lots of colleagues could have answered her queries.(same company, different countries)
I think it was because, quite simply, she was convinced she had met the love of her life and thought that, given time, my H would realise it and come back to her. Therefore, she was reminding him of her availability.

Yes, but if he failed to reply, or replied with the information she needed instead of passing it to someone else and most significantly, never once replied with a message of "Stop contacting me. I want nothing whatsoever to do with you about any matter at all." then I can see why she felt she had permission to keep sending E mails.

He actually said ''stop contacting me please'' and passed her work email onto another colleague. She did finally get the message and realised they were perhaps, not destined for each other afterall!
Can we leave it there please.

I think the OW they choose are also a reflection of their self esteem at the time and men tend to affair "downwards". My DH's OW was truly vile and he moved in with her. She had a couple of dogs that she never walked so there was dog poo everywhere including, at times, in the house. There was only bare floorboard in the house, her towels and bedlinen were disgusting by all accounts. She didn't have a bed just a mattress on the floor. One of his closest friends was invited round there by OW (obviously wanting to legitimize the relationship) and he couldn't believe it. He said to my DH that he never normally comments on people's relationships and circumstances but WTF was he doing there !!!

DH discussed this with his counsellor last week as he still couldn't comprehend why he went there - it's down to what he thought he deserved, his lack of self esteem. He also needed to reach rock bottom to turn his life around.

But if you were trying to impress your lover, wouldn't you clear the dog sh*t up first ????? And only have the fluffiest towels in the bathroom or am I a towel snob like Monica from Friends