Recovery after an affair

[sheba2288]

After taking huge adviceand comfort, and despite Robberbutton's change in situation, I know there are a couple of us 'survivors' out there. So this is a thread in which I hope we can help survive together.

Brief background on my situ - been with H for 20plus years, married with 2 DCs. H had affair with work colleague last year. I discovered last July. Had a rough summer/autumn, 2 close relatives' deaths added to our turmoil.

Since this Feb, there has been a turning point (thanks to MN advice), and things are starting to be a lot more positive. However.... I am often felt let down and hurt. When does it all go away????

I still ask my H has he seen bb (bitch face). He doesn't work directly with her but occasionly may attend the same training/meeting. He says the same as your H, that we're putting her at the centre of things . They are right, the marriage is about you and him, she only played a bit part (a very destructive one) . But it concerns me less and less. I get more worked up about socials she may be at.

Hello there, quick hug to Suff, I really hope he can man up enough to make it work. Your original thread was the first one I read after finding out about my husband's affair, and it was hard going. It's difficult for me to feel lucky at the moment, but seeing the behaviour of some of these men is truly sobering as I can hardly fault my (D)H on the way he has handled the post-discovery period. Yours has a lot a lot a lot of work to do.

Can I take advantage of this thread to ask some of our elder stateswomen (elder - ha! I've probably got a good decade on more than a few of you) a few questions?

The first one is about the evolution of your grief/rage/despair. I am a month in to this process, and it just seems to me that things are getting worse and worse, albeit with ups and downs along that downward curve. (I posted about my own situation here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1169883-For-those-of-you-who-have-had-affairs-and-others-with-WS-insight?pg=2 -and asked about this in my second last post, pls help!) Admittedly the background to my husband's affair and the depth of my reaction to it is a bit more far out than usual, but still, I'm just wondering if the steady worsening of my feelings means that this situation is just not salvageable. I also have to admit that to see some of you still very distressed even after a couple of years terrifies me and makes me wonder if this is worth it. But perhaps your curve was still always an upward one?

Second question is about your kids. I cannot remain in an unhappy marriage forever for my 5 yr-old, but he is the reason I am still here and willing to see if we can get it back on to a sounder footing than before. To those of you who have survived - did your children all realise what was going on? My son does not seem to have yet, we are doing our very best to shield him. If they didn't realise at the time, did you manage to protect them indefinitely? Do you feel that has been very worthwhile? (One of you said, I think, that you wondered now whether it might not have been better to face the pain up front and separate, rather than have this long drawn-out torture....)

I know I had more questions but my brain is so fried that I've forgotten them. It's probably for the best anyway as I tend to write novella-length posts and then regret them.

Thanks so much to you all, really, I have found this forum so unbelievably helpful and comforting over the last month.

Hi all, this is my very first post here and only joined today after being given a link to this forum and happening on this thread this afternoon (strange it was the one that jumped straight out at me), I spent most of this afternoon reading it at work, but eventually had to stop as I ended up crying over some of the posts.

I am 5 months down the road after discovering for sure about my husbands affair. It only lasted 6 weeks, but, call it female intuition or just a gut feeling, I knew pretty much as soon as it started. Even so, finding out for definite was the biggest kick in the teeth I have ever had. I felt like my whole world collapsed at that moment in time.

How I found out was because he had been trying to end it with her, so she made sure I found out. Probably in the hope I would kick him out and he would go running to her.

To be honest, on that first day I was just too numb to even think about anything but getting our child looked after elsewhere so he didn't have to witness any of the immediate aftermath, the poor kid had already seen me slowly falling to pieces over the previous weeks.

I'm not defending what he has done at all, but last year we had a terrible terrible year, what with one thing and another, we lost our business due to the recession, his mother became very ill and ended up having to go in to a care home, (shortly after that is when the affair started). There were also many other small stresses going on throughout the year, which would normally have seemed insignificant when not already under major stress.

I just think he was vulnerable (and stupid), and if I am totally honest, I almost found myself having an affair earlier in the year. I became very close to a guy, who flattered me constantly, and lets face it who doesn't like hearing nice things?. We flirted a lot, swapped emails, phone calls etc. But when he started asking me to do things (go out for a drink etc etc), I thought to myself 'what am I doing?'. I love my husband too much and would never ever do anything like that to him, even now.

I thought I was starting to have more good days than bad days. My husbands Mother passed away recently, we were both with her holding her hands when she passed. But I think the grief I am feeling over her is bringing back the memories of the grief I felt when I found out about his affair and I feel like I am totally melting down again.

I should add that he has done everything he possibly can to reassure me that it's me he loves and what a stupid idiot he was. He is doing everything he can to make our relationship right again.

Wow, I know it's a very long post, and I apologise for rambling, but I could probably think of a million more things I want to say in it. It's took me almost a hour to type it out, as I had to keep walking away. It's the first time I have really talked about it.

Oh gosh suff. I will give you the advice that I am giving myself, as we are again in a very similar situation (although my H is probably not being quite as sure as yours sounds at the moment about getting back together).

Give it HUGE amounts of time. If you are anything like me you will still be swinging all over the place in terms of what you actually want. Don't make a decision to take him back when you are having a 'loved up' week, only to feel different the next week and regret it.

Relate, or some sort of counselling, would be critical I would think. They would presumably have advice on rebuilding trust, because I haven't a clue on that front.

Really think about what YOU want, don't just assume that you want him back. Try and get a bit of distance (now that the pressure of the OW is 'gone'), to really consider YOUR needs. Your H is a different man to who you thought he was. Is this really who you want to share your future with? Don't feel pressured by family / friends / church etc to just jump back into fixing it at all costs. This is the time for space and a huge pause. For your H too, what if he changes his mind in a week once the current drama has settled?

I find that I go through phases of desperately wanting H to move back in, and practically having to sit on my hands to stop myself emailing him to that effect, but then a few days later feel quite different and know that if he ever was to come back that it will not be for a long time.

Good luck x

TSL, I wish your H could be more compassionate towards you. He needs to empathise, to say "I understand how hard us working together is for you", even if nothing can be done at the moment. Him getting cross and defensive about it is unhelpful and wrong.

lostinthejungle I wasn't getting any better, cried everyday for months, but that was because subconsciously I knew H wasn't really with me in this. If you say your H is doing everything right, and you feel he is in your gut, then I'm not sure.

Re the kids, we told them 'Daddy's not living here any more'. They didn't bat an eyelid really, he'd been around so little.

Gloria, hi. That's such a lot to go through - have the two of you had counselling? Seems like too much to process on your own.

@ aisling - I call the OW Dog Breath
I also have her number in my mobile phone and she's slapper on there.
If I ever see her in RL I will slap her even though we are 17 months on from D-Day.
(And before anyone says 'he's to blame, don't take it out on her', I slapped his face when I found out)

@ Lost - poor love, such early days, a month is nothing. It's still so raw. My Dcs don't know what happened, tho they must have heard some of the rows. I didn't stay for their sakes as such. But my thoughts were that if I didn't try I would never know - and they definitely featured in that.

@ Gloria - welcome. I have read all you said, and sounds like you and DH really went through the mill prior to the affair. However as someone recently pointed out to me, no matter what his reasons or the excuses you are prepared to make for him, he had the affair, and he made an adult decision to do so. I've had to face the tough fact that he may have done it even if we had been getting on brilliantly because the opportunity was there and maybe, just maybe, he isn't actually the infallible man I thought I had married. Although it's harsh it has actually helped me because I no longer carry any blame (still get bloody angry tho).

@two - so hard when it's a work thing. DH was out with work last Fri and he txtd me to say she WASN'T there and that was the only reason he had gone. That put me in a foul mood we ended up having a massive row even though he thought he was helping.

@suff - what's the latest?

lostinthejungle, it was me who had wondered whether pain up front was better than the drawn out torture. I am still wondering. Like you, reading posts from people who are still struggling further down the line fills me with horror. Does it ever get truly better, or do you just end up accepting a compromise and a downgraded version of what you thought your marriage should have been?

Re protecting the children, we had got to the place where H HAD to move out, the lies had just gone on too long and I had given him enough chances. We attempted to give the kids a fictional reason about why Daddy had gone to live with is mother, but my eldest was soon asking questions and was obviously unsettled. When we had yet another cycle of me finding out about H lying yet again, we realised we had to tell the kids the truth. Having read solosts thread (and from what my eldest was saying), I realised that lying to the kids about our situation may actually be more damaging than the truth.

Sorry to hear you are going through the meltdown stage again gloriarose, it is so hard.

Cloudy, thanks for your reply.

To be honest, he's never gave an excuse apart from that he was a dick headed idiot. I've never said to him, oh well we had to deal with this that and the other last year so you were vulnerable, as I am not going to put any excuses in to his head.

I have also said to him when he said 'I made a stupid mistake' I said 'no you didn't you made a very conscious decision' he didn't like it, but I have to say what I am thinking. I did feel like I carried blame at first, but not now. I'm just still very very hurt, and at times so angry I want to punch him square in the face.

If the "conscious decision" remark winds him up, maybe he's not taking full responsibility yet? Did you go for counselling?

Sufficient, I truly think he has taken the full responsibility, I should have put the whole thing in to context, when he had said that, and I had replied I had also followed by telling him about my 'almost' affair, and when I said 'he didn't like it' to be honest I think it just made him feel guiltier and so it turned in to a 'who was he' row. This all happened only a week after I found out.

sufficient - you just gave Mr Self-Pitying Drama Queen a an invitation to
more drama based entirely on him. No wonder he's put OW on the back burner (for now).

He's living with you parents?! Why?

I don't think you can believe anything he says, sorry.

Hello Gloria and welcome. I could have written your last paragraph about not blaming myself for his bloody stupid, self-absorbed decision, but still feeling the hurt and the anger and particularly wanting to punch him... probably not the best course of action, but tempting at times.

In the early days, one of the "excuses" my H gave was that he suspected me of having an affair, to the point of doubting DC3's paternity! It was all a complete fantasy on his part and he never mentioned these doubts to me.

Suff, you keep sitting on those hands. Do not let him back in yet, he has a huge amount to prove before you can do that. Keep him out for the DC's sake - imagine how they would react if he came back now, then he didn't meet your needs and expectations of him (which I hope wouldn't be the case, but it so easily could, given the lies he has spun) and you had to ask him to leave again? Take all the time you need.

Sufficient I'm curious about why you arranged and gave him that letter immediately after he had admitted some pretty damning and painful facts about his affair - admissions that appeared to make you more angry and resolute that this relationship was over. This suggests to me that you are not in a good place to make any decisions right now. I can see why he grasped at that letter as though it were a lifebelt and from his point of view, if he read that it didn't have to be over, he is entitled to assume you still have capacity to forgive and get past this. But yet again, this means that he is reacting to events; not being proactive himself about getting his marriage back.

You can still retract what you said in that letter, you know. Don't feel honour bound to adhere to it. I think it would be a mistake to reconcile too soon and without any real proactivity on your H's part. Watch and wait, would be my advice.

Sufficient - Your H's reaction to your letter, it's all about him. What a hard time he is having, how much he misses your family, what his life is like now. Nothing about you, about what he has done to you. All about him.

I would be very wary.

Suff hope you're ok.

I did PM you last night.

Gloria - sorry to hear yet another sad story. There must be something in the British water so something. These bloody Hs' (I'm sure there are Ws doing the dirty too)!

I could have written your first post myself, word for word. I'm sure the others would have nodded whilst reading it. I'm no WWIFN (she's wonderful - she could knock out Relate in one swoop!) - but taking in her advice, not necessarily directed to me, has helped me enormously.

The most important bit is the communication thing - your H has to talk to you. I banged my head against a wall for nearly 6 months until he really opened up. Jusy try and get through each day as well as you can. And if he wants to be with you (and you want him to be with you) then just treating each other gently, and I found the period of confidement will come. It's been mentioned earlier that it seems to take the guilty partner a period of time before they seem to realise the damage they have caused. When us, as the innocents, expect them to be sorry, beg of forgiveness, etc from day 1. It certainly happen for us.

I have only had a recent period of 'peace' - in fact I started this thread on 24/3, and I was quite low then. So it's still a rollercoaster...

Suff - You know your DH better than most, and moreso now than ever before. But what screams out at me as an observer is that he has now realised he can't cope and he's saying anything he can to get back in your favour. I am not yet convinced that given time, he wouldn't stray again. Remember this is the man who told he and the OW had fabricated a txt to send you about the state of their relationship. A man who is STAYING WITH YOUR PARENTS???? How dare he!!!! A man who has never felt remorse until you present him with the letter? Up to you, but I am with Spidooky on this.

Suff is probably feeling battered after the brutal reality check she is getting here. Hope you're ok.

Sheba I so wish H was more communicative. My H would be happy never to mention the OW or the affair again, but I need to talk about what happened and is happening now with her to gain some assurance that that it is all genuinely and firmly in the past, and I need to talk about him for some proof that the selfish git that broke my heart is doing all he can to change into someone I can begin to respect and trust again.

And then there's the issue of honesty. He was obviously worn down by all the lying and sneaking around so has sworn he'll be honest. The problem is that he cannot see where honesty becomes cruelty, eg when "explaining" his affair, he told me he found OW attractive, and recently when I asked if he still found her attractive, he just said "yes". I shouldn't have asked, more fool me, but I found his blunt and unqualified answer cruel.

I saw a good quote the other day, which in rough translation is: "Honesty without love is bludgeoning. Love without honesty is lame."

I think you can recognise that someone is attractive without actually being attracted to them. I can see that my dh's ow is attractive - in a fake tits sort of way. I can see why he would have found her attractive. She is pretty much the fantasy I suppose. Slim, big boobs, glamorous, wealthy enough to be able to not have to worry about housework or childcare - so I can see her attraction.

Equally I can see that certain male singers/film stars are attractive - but they don't necessarily do it for me!

The art, I think, is looking beyond the physical presentation of someone and seeing their personality, the way they behave towards other people, how kind and thoughtful they are.

I can see that my husband is attractive - I can say that he is attractive and I am attracted to him still. It's just that I don't know if I actually like him very much! So it needs more than just a physical attraction for someone to mean something - if that makes sense?

Dear elder survivors who now feel that their marriage is on a more or less sound footing, can I ask another question? I'm wondering if you made the decision to stick with your husbands from the very beginning after finding about their affairs? Or did you very seriously consider throwing them out/did you actually throw them out?

Thanks so much.

TSL, bearing in mind that you know your husband quite a bit better than I do, I have to say I think that although his answer was undoubtedly difficult to hear, like WBB says it doesn't necessarily mean exactly what you took it to mean (does he generally express himself effectively, with all the nuances?). And also, I do think that if we ask a question we have to accept how the answer will make us feel. I asked for explicit details of my husband's affair and I got them - really lovely I can tell you. But if we know they are being honest and prepared to tell us about such details, even though it hurts, then there is a greater chance that they are being honest about the big stuff, kwim?

Lost, yes you and WBB are probably right. I knew the answer, I just would have liked him to realise that it would be hurtful to hear and qualify it with something to soften the knife-in-the-heart effect. Ho hum.

Not knowing (or not remembering, I have met her but have no particular recollection of her) what OW looks like is tough. I am curious because he isn't amazingly handsome, but he has professional kudos, whereas she is at the bottom of the work hierarchy. So she could be higher up the attractiveness scale than him (and me?) but feebly in awe of his status, or not that attractive, just good at flirting and massaging his ego. I don't know if would help me to know.

Honesty is certainly a good thing in the wake of years of lying. But his version of honesty has been rather selective, in that he usually only answers my direct questions rather than volunteering information that would help me get past this and begin to trust him. He isn't that good at expressing himself, he goes in for long, heavy silences. He hates conversations about emotions, he would prefer just to let them, and the rebuilding of our marriage, to happen "naturally". Which I think is a cop out.

TSL - I once asked my dh a specific question about something he and ow may have done together. He answered me honestly, was extremely embarrassed about it but he was honest. And given the amount of lies he'd told me before then, as much as I hated what he said, I had to give him some benefit because he could have lied and I wouldn't have known the difference.

Your dh was honest. Yes it may have been painful and not what you wanted to hear - but what if he'd lied to you and told you that he hadn't found her attractive. You wouldn't have believed it and would have known that he was lying.

My dh sounds a lot like yours - he thinks we should be putting it behind us and moving on. Well, I am ... but probably not at the pace he thinks we should be. This weekend is particularly hard as this time last year he wasn't here. He'd left mother's day presents for my children to give me but he wasn't here himself. He was wallowing in self pity!

I have told him that I do sometimes wonder whether I did the right thing or whether it would have been less painful to just give up and let him go. I did try that after he came back but he fought really hard to keep me. And just wouldn't give up.

He would never raise the subject of the OW at all if I didn't. I think it's a mixture of embarrassment (he's not one for talking in great depth about anything 'difficult' - if I'd left it to him our children would have no clue that they weren't adopted!) and that he's just not used to it. His family are odd - he can spend a whole hour talking to his mother or brother on the phone and not talk about anything really personal. He and his brother have never talked about our marriage or what we went through. It pains him to have to talk about 'difficult' things. Well, tough really ... I come from a very different household where we do air things and we do talk and, as a family, we're a whole lot closer as a result.

And it's how I bring up my children - with honesty and I never flinch from the difficult questions.

But it's easy for me and hard for him. And possibly your dh too?

Hi Ladies/Survivors

After a solid few weeks of genuinely thinking that we are well on the road to recovery, I've had the wind taken out of my sails. For a reason he cannot explain, despite a whole 36 hours of semi-arguing/discussing/crying, he went out for lunch on Fri and returned at 1am Sat am. Drunk. He apparently had foreseen my reaction, yet failed to either reassure me that he could be trusted on a night out, and also was not in communication from 3pm to said 1am. He claims to have even felt like crying whilst getting drunk, was in such a low mood (ahh - don't you feel sorry for him - NOT!).

So I attempted to ring him at 10pm, started to fret a bit. No joy. He could not see why i was upset about it - and then started the whole 'you'll never trust me' speech. Kids were back huddled together not knowing what the hell was going on - AGAIN.

A truss was to be had last night - woke up feeling crap. He asked me what was the matter - I said he didn't want to hear it, but I then went on a I think 20 min rant about how the hell I'm supposed to trust him, when he knew I would be nervous/unsteady about him being out. In no way have I objected since the affair that he curtails his social/business entertaining. But surely if he had an ounce of respect for me he would have at least rang to say that he was going on a bender? When I really touched a nerve with him, relaying back to a very deceiptful incident last year (before discovery), whereby he was again all day and non-communicado, he crumbled in a heap and I ended up stopping the so-called argument carrying on. He's acting out like the bloody hard done way partner again!

So another truss came this morning - lovely start to Mothers Day! It ended up a really pleasant day - all of us for lunch, then another Sunday hike. But I'm left with his response that he willl try and think of me next time. WTF? Why the hell do I have to be treated this way?? URGHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

So TSL - I'm back on the 'when does this all go away?' stage....

But I'm left with his response that he willl try and think of me next time

No TELL HIM if he does it again it WILL be the last time... He got away with it again and you are left feeling awful again

You have just taken a huge step back in your recovery, Her owes it both to you and your DC's who are obviously traumatised by all recent events to get his act together.

He needs to ship up or ship out.

Oh sheba He really doesn't get it does he?

I don't feel in much of a position to dish out advice but it does sound like he is taking the p*ss. How dare he act all hard done by! And his response is feeble to say the least.

Do you see any evidence that he is trying to change himself, his behaviour, his attitude to you and your marriage?