Can't believe I'm typing this. DH and hotel booking

[BrokenTree]

Dh away overnight on business. He was sorting his paperwork this morning and I saw the hotel confirmation. It was:- One Room: Two Adults...... I asked why it said that and he just said "oh must just be the bog-standard booking if you have a double room" or similar words.

Needless to say something rankled and I went to the Hotel website to make a booking and, guess what, you need to click down to confirm the number of guests.... It starts with 1.

Have spent the morning feeling sick, shaky and tearful. This can't be real. It just can't. I am a stupid, smug cow. What my DH be unfaithful?! Don't be ridiculous, etc., etc.

Don't really know what I expect anyone to say just need to get it out there so to speak. It could be an innocent mistake couldn't it?

Xales, Wamster, WWIFN, Notrightnow, Amicable - you've all touched a nerve. There are so many thoughts going round in my head right now I can't think straight.

All other lovely, kind posters who've taken the time and trouble to bother with me today - thank you so much.

This isn't about a single/double room booking that's not what I meant tbh. This hotel doesn't have single rooms - looking at the website it asks you what double/deluxe room you want, how many rooms then how many adults/children. You need to click down to say how many of each. That is what I am struggling with. The automatic default is 1 room and 1 adult. Not 2 Adults. If you were on your own you'd leave it at 1 wouldn't you? The price is the same. I desperately want to believe your kind stories of mistakes made, truly I do.

He called at 9.50pm to say goodnight and to check all was ok here. Of course I said all was fine. Oh, Amicable I see you had the early night scenario as well - (great name btw I think that's what I am). Keep the peace.

WWIFN - you're right about the incident last year I think. I thought we'd talked boundaries through but maybe not. The lady in question we both worked with when young, free and single many years ago - she's lovely. I moved on but DH and she worked very closely for many years. Then last year she was having a really tough time. Dh then left the firm but used an email address that we both had access to (but I didn't use) to to keep in contact. Mmmm. It was the tone of his emails that I discovered by accident in fact. "Really looking forward to seeing you again" type of email.

He doesn't use the home computer much. Everything is on his Blackberry which I have no access to. He leaves it lying around on charge but I don't know how to access it/password.

There is more - when isn't there in relationships - but for now I can't really cope. My head is aching, probably from all the coffee and I need to try and sleep.

Thank you all for listening, it means a lot.

a) You don?t know he booked it through the hotels own website not e.g. a corporate site, or a Hotel.com site, in which case their default entries will apply
b) Asking to speak to Mrs x won?t help ?like the receptionist is going to know if there?s one or two people in the room
c) Being eager to get you off the phone at dinner wouldn?t tell you anything. If I had a business dinner, told dh when it was and he phoned me during that time for any non emergency reason he?d get short shrift (in fact I?d prob ignore the call, text back something like ?anything urgent?? then call after dinner. And that would apply even in a duty dinner I couldn?t care less about. It?s simply rude to talk on your phone at the table.

To be honest, the calling you at 6 and then again just before 10 'for an early night' is not quite sitting right. But more because of the back history than anything else.

Anyway, I hope you've slept and feel a bit clearer. I always agree with WWIFN and do again, so I'm confining myself to sympathy at this stage.

Maybe I have a more bossy manner than you, but I'd surprise him when he's next there and insist on full disclosure of the contents of his blackberry. If my partner did this to me, I'd be pissed off but I wouldn't have anything to hide. Has he ever admitted some level of blame in connection with his contacts with this other woman last year? Has he ever agreed that he went too far? Even if not, you saw the contents and they crossed YOUR line, so either way I'd say you could use that as the reason for full disclosure of his blackberry contents on this one occasion. But that's not going to solve things for the future - as if he plans on doing something wrong then he'll just hide his tracks more. So perhaps you need counseling, really.

It might be that he's genuinely done nothing wrong and selected an extra adult by accident, or to get extra towels or toiletries or something in his room. Personally, even though I trust my partner entirely I'd still hang him out to dry over this. It just doesn't sit right, does it? But even if he has cheated, would it really be the end of the world if he agreed to stop?

My dh books double rooms but when he comes home the reciept always shows double room, one checked in. I know this because I see the reciepts as I have to manage the money at our end and need to know whats gone out before he claims it back

How are you doing OP?
I still believe that the way you feel is the most important in this - if you weren't concerned then all this would add up to nothing, but as he has a history and alarm bells are ringing for you, you are probably justified in being suspicious at least

He might not have used the hotel direct booking site, theres loads that he couldve used. Its really common to say two adults, I dont know anyone that would say one because (as someone thats been single for a long time!) you really do get a second rate room.

Im sorry about your niggles but, place dont base anything on that hotel booking or not wanting to been disturbed at a work dinner. You havent really got anything concerete so far, I guess all you can do is keep your eyes and ears open.

Good luck!

Hope you're doing ok today BT. Am rooting for you that this all turns out to be nothing. That said, I do think your own instinct is all important here. The hotel booking, "early night" etc in and of themselves are really not suspicious and could well be entirely innocent. I think it's your reaction to these facts that is most telling. You sound like somebody who has had a niggle at the back of her mind that just wont go away. That deserves some investigation at the very least.

My dh calls when he gets to a hotel and also calls before he goes to sleep,sometimes it's a quick 'I'm knackered so going to sleep' or a tipsy call after the bar has closed .Sometimes he doesn't call in the evening but will call when he gets up.

I'd find the 2 adult booking a bit odd but it could be just a misplaced click of a mouse.

I hope you do manage a really good chat about your worries or suspicions when he arrives home.

Try and have a calm and relaxed day,don't let your mind run away with it.It's definitely better talking face to face.

How are you this morning BrokenTree?

I understand fully that if you'd had no concerns before, you'd have had the reaction that all your "Meh, it was an accident with the mouse!" posters would have had. And that's not to disrespect those posters, who were only trying to do their best to calm your nerves yesterday.

I'm sure you would have had the same reaction once upon a time, because I am sure you are not an unreasonably jealous or paranoid person.

When an emotionally healthy person has nagging doubts and when there has been a previous betrayal of trust, your responses yesterday were in fact entirely normal. If you hadn't had any misgivings about what you saw (your H after all, didn't volunteer the "booking mistake") and about your H's changed story when challenged, in fact I would wonder whether you were in denial.

I think the relationship with your mutual friend needs unpicking a bit here. You say you found communications from him to her that made you uncomfortable. Is there any evidence that his friend found them uncomfortable too? Did you speak to her? Did he ever admit that he was flirting and hoping for something more, or has he insisted all this time that although he could see why you were concerned, there was really no intent on his part? You say you discussed boundaries, but I wonder whether the missing piece in this jigsaw is his admitted intent?

People in his shoes will often insist that there was no intent there and in the face of that denial, it is impossible to solve the problem. It gets swept under the carpet and the feelings of mistrust continue, because it is obvious that there has been a nagging voice inside you that knows what his intent was, but perhaps you've been struggling because you've never been able to get him to admit it?

This really needs resolving, because whether he was with someone else last night or not, you have been left with an instinct that he has been trying to find an affair partner for some time now. Perhaps because your mutual friend deterred him and therefore nothing happened, this was an easy comforter, but the fidelity in your relationship can never be controlled by a third party. Only he can control his own fidelity and if he has been seeking an affair, one day he is going to get lucky.

Most of all, I wanted to validate your feelings and urge you to take action. In your shoes, I think I would want to do some research behind the scenes before speaking to your H, because if I'm right about his earlier denials, that could be what will happen this time and you will be no further forward, but he could get better at hiding his tracks. I wonder why, for example, you don't know the password to his phone? People often have passwords to protect phones from children, but there's no reason why this is secret from a spouse. Would he volunteer it freely to you, I wonder? Would he let you use his phone without warning - and disappear off for a while with it? Or would he panic if it left his sight?

Brokentree I hope you don't mind if I ask whenwillifeelnormal a question on your thread? I do so to help me to answer a question that I have about boundaries and because I value her opinion about such matters, but I am suggesting using your thread rather than PMing her, because the answer might help you take the next stage in your situation, as well as help me.

Sorry if this goes off tangent and is not helpful to you at all brokentree

whenwillifeelnormal you suggest that brokentree asks her DH about his phone password and suggests that she seeks access to his messages. I know some partners do this and some (who perhaps have never had reason to NOT trust their partner) don't feel a need for this.

But what do you do if you have had reason in the past to mistrust your partner (like Brokentree) but your partner refuses access to his phone/email on the basis that it is an intrusion into his privacy? This is the situation I am in and it's really trickey. I would like to assert boundaries whereby access is open to us both, but my DH is deeply offended by this intrusion on his privacy and would become outraged if I were to suggest it/enforce it. We would be in stalemate, with no evidence of a problem/infidelity but no trust/security.

Apologies for out of control bolding there, not sure what went wrong!

I agree with loves2cycle. I don't think it's necessarily normal or standard practice for couples to share their phone/email/facebook passwords with each other. There's just no need. So that in itself is not something that would immediately strike me as odd about the OP's situation.

Mind you, these threads often make me feel like it's me who is the odd one.

Ugh, I skimmed, so my agreement with loves2cycle doesn't make that much sense. The rest of my comment stands though.

I travel away for business a lot. I always get billed '1 person' for a double room.

If I was planning on being unfaithful (which I'm not), I certainly wouldn't book the room for 2 people either. You'd just sneak someone in and out.

I wouldn't take this as a sign on its own but if you have suspicions you are well within your rights to approach him or hell, even turn up at the hotel. If there's nothing up, then no harm done.

I always phone dh before I go to bed and first thing in the morning. I am just used to him being the last person I speak to and the first in the morning so I like carrying that on when I'm away.

There's a vast difference between privacy and secrecy. I agree that it's not unusual for couples to keep their passwords private, but beyond ethical issues like work confidentiality or keeping the private confidences of a friend, individuals with nothing to hide would normally have no problem with letting a password become known to their spouse.

It is especially important to be transparent after a breach of trust, because this lack of secrecy actually builds trust. This brings me to your question Loves. Your H is being unreasonable in the extreme. The trust was compromised in your relationship and he should be doing everything in his power to restore it and understand why you have problems with secrecy.

After a betrayal of trust, it is perfectly normal and in fact advisable that passwords are shared. When trust is shattered, a partner has an insatiable need to see incontrovertible evidence that what s/he is being told is the truth. It would be the triumph of hope over experience to continue to trust someone who has lied to and deceived you, regardless of what that person is saying now.

So there is a period of cross-checking and openly conducted invasions of privacy. A spouse trying to make amends understands why this is happening and encourages it, knowing that s/he would feel just the same compulsion, if the situation were reversed.

After a while, if there is complete congruity with what a regretful spouse is saying and the bits of incontrovertible evidence, like phones, bills, e mail accounts, social networking sites etc., the trust actually returns and the need to snoop recedes to such an extent that it stops completely. And it must stop completely at some point, because it is not healthy to be constantly second-guessing a partner and invading their privacy, however openly that is conducted.

I cant stand it when people play with my phone or, look at my photographs and I have nothing to hide. Its just a line I wouldnt cross with anyone. Its a personal thing.

Thank you for responding whenwillifeelnormal to my question. I won't continue going on about this on brokentrees thread as that feels wrong, but I am grateful that you answered my question.

I hope you're OK brokentree today. I know what that feeling is like of lack of trust with no real evidence to support it except instinct and odd bits and pieces. You feel as though you're going mad with the questions running through your head and you just want to know one way or another so you can make an informed decision about your future and get on with the business of dealing with the emotional fallout rather than living through a deep fog of uncertainty.

I hope your DH can be open with you about phone passwords etc. as I can see that is a very good way of restoring trust.

Well I have nothing to hide, but there is no way I would allow anyone to read my emails or texts. I don't even like anyone beig in the same room when I am writing or reading emails. Ok perhaps I am a bit mad, but I certainly don't do this because I want to hide somehting. I just like to be private.

OK I said I wouldn't go on about this as it may not be helping brokentrees at all but your views kittya and tabitha are exactly why I haven't enforced this boundary. How can you disagree with someone saying those things? I can't, so I don't, but then if someone is being unfaithful you're giving them more freedom than they deserve and full scope to carry on. How crap is that?

You can PM me Loves because I think all these posts about privacy are missing the point, coming as they are from people who presumably haven't had trust issues in their relationships.

I feel differently about some things with my DH now as he did something I never expected him to do. Before that, no issues and no insecurities. It can have an affect when there has been past problems.

I have read all of your thread Broken and at first was in agreement with those that said it was a mistake or policy of the hotel or default setting issue that made the reservation a double occupancy, and thought don't go looking for problems that might not exist..

However just a few words of caution from my experience. My ex worked away from home a lot, both in the UK and abroad. His travel office at work always booked his accommodation and he was billed to his company credit card. I never saw the bookings nor the bills. He always rang me each evening without fail often as he was going down to dinner so didn't speak for long just checked in to see if we were ok.

I never once suspected him in all those years but after a while he began locking his phone so I couldn't access it, I didn't question this once. He also began going away on the same night of the week every two weeks or so and stayed in the same hotel. On one occasion a bill for the hotel appeared on our personal credit card statement and when I asked him to get it refunded as a work expense he said he would but no refund ever arrived.

Over time I asked him who he was meeting or dining with and he always gave a plausible reply, usually someone I knew from business or a work colleague, again I never doubted him.

Eventually my suspicions became so great that I asked him outright on more than one occasion if he was having an affair and he denied it every time. I checked his pockets, his brief case, his car, questioned all he did, and got the same don't be silly, I love you, why do I want someone else.

I found out by chance, he dropped his phone, picked it up and it was unlocked, I read texts from OW.

He admitted to a three year affair, I suspect longer, with OW, a work colleague, who travelled with him on many occasions that he told me of.

He even admitted to taking her on holiday when he had told me it was a business trip, and he knew I couldn't go with him due to my own work commitments, so knew I wouldn't question it.

I had such strong gut feelings for 18 months before discovery, but I loved him, trusted him and naively thought he would never do this to me.

I agree with the other posters go cautiously, be certain, the anguish that those feelings of uncertainty, mistrust, suspicion cause are truly painful and hard to live with. I became a paranoid nervous wreck, so much so my DC even noticed. But I stuck with my instincts and eventually found him out, he was very careful, no one knew, they got away with it for so long. Get your evidence, speak with him, if he is a decent person he will be truthful. My ex wasn't decent and showed me no respect at all.

Good luck.

Afternoon everyone. Sorry only just come back to this as I have been trying to actually achieve something today after the washout that was yesterday. Also have a banging headache that is refusing to respond to painkillers. Think it was the caffeine overload.

Have been reading your thought provoking posts.

Just to answer re the passworded Blackberry, I do think if I ask him for it later and the password he will give it to me. BUT I do know there will be a sort of resigned resentment/sigh sort of reaction if you understand me. Then I may well not find anything (I have iphone and don't understand the Blackberry ) and then it will be an uncomfortable evening. Or he will be demanding to know why I don't trust him, etc., and I will end up feeling backed into a corner and feeling like I am banging on about a "mistaken tone of a few emails to a very good friend", blah blah. love2cycle I think that is the sort of reaction you get as well?

It is so difficult. I do understand people who say about invasion of privacy but what else can we do when we feel so jittery/untrusting or whatever the feeling is.

Like LittleMissHF said - if I had said "oh go on come back then" yesterday I honestly feel I wouldn't have heard the last of it.

Christ, I don't know.

He's back later this evening and I think we really do need to talk things through. Again.

WWIFN, partytime, Stealth and everyone too numerous to mention (sorry sounds like an Oscars speech) thank you all so much.

Love2cycle, please feel free to use this thread - it helps me as well seeing what you have to say - it does sound as if we are both in a similar situation sadly.

Part of your discussion could be explaining the difference between 'I'm sorry you're feeling vulbnerable, don't worry, I'll come home and we'll talk about it' and 'ffs, if you want me to come home I will, SIGH'.