You wait, don't you, for the man to make the first move?

[IngridBergmann]

If there is a first move going to be made, that is...!

And I really don't know. how do you know? No obvious moves have been made at all.

It feels like we are very close friends and we always laugh a lot and talk a lot, but then, this is someone who has a multitude of friends and family and is very socially easy going.

He could be like this with everyone. I don't know if he is just being friendly, or actually does like me but is really, really shy of doing anything about it.

We always hug when we say goodbye and there is a kiss on the cheek but nothing else yet and it's been a few weeks.

He did offer to lend me his spirit level and so I asked if he had a big one, then we both laughed and he said 'Oh yes, enORmous!'

See I could have just kissed him right then and there but I was too scared. If he was shocked it would be awful so I couldn't risk it.

What do you DO? Do you just wait? I think I might go mad. But I will be sensible.

He's just being friendly, isn't he.

Thought it was just me being dim.. I didn't see the text as that clear either.. And definitely not for a bloke.

Wont be around over weekend.. Relax, Ingrid.. Wil be anxious to hear you're ok on monday.

What's 'threatening' about telling someone you fancy them?

TBH Ingrid I think this is the root of the whole difficulty. The assumption that letting someone know you care for them is an aggressive thing to do, and that they will react with fear, defensiveness or withdrawal. What's that all about?

I know what you are doing, you are forcing the issue because you can't cope with the pain of not knowing - I have done this in the past too - it's almost a way of saying "go on then, prove to me that I wasn't worth it all along"...the problem is that I come across as being a bit obsessed and nutty and drive them away anyway (I'm not saying that's what you are doing!) and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I can imagine how you must be feeling, it's so terribly painful to feel so much for someone and not know if they give a shit or not. Can you bear to take a step back for a bit? Just try and busy yourself with some stuff, I dunno, knock and wall down or something, see some friends, anything to take your mind off him.

The more you fret and worry and convince yourself that he doesn't like you, the more likely it is you are going to drive him away....stop texting him flowery waffle, stop trying to make him declare his undying love.

Try to relax and let it be for a day or two if you can. You're overthinking things (said with love!)

thanks, yes, something had to give. I couldn't stand it - two months since he asked me over to his and still nothing. Have deleted 24 messages from me to him and about four from him to me, which puts it into perspective (though he did call several times and I never did).

OTHM, it's because every bloke I have ever asked out, sent a valentine to, or otherwise made my feelings clear to, has run away looking very scared.
If it's not what I did, then it must just mean I am a scary person I guess.

Unfailingly they have been scared.

Am feeling totally rubbish this morning, know I won't hear from him and don't know what to do about Tuesday. I hope he does turn up as I don't want to mess my builder around.

I remembered that yesterday he went and played with my ds for a good while, because he didn't want t join in with the others who were doing football, so they went and climbed a tree together. He was being lovely.
Maybe I am just really depressed and can't see anything good, but really the fact everyone has said he still loves her is too much to stand.

Thanks for your messages and I hope you have a good weekend, I'll try!

Maybe these other guys were scared because they just plain weren't right for you? You sound so capable and self aware, yet so down on yourself......why assume you are the one with the failings?

It's funny because I can see patterns of my own behaviour in what you are writing, yet when I am in the middle of things I can't see the wood for the trees.

I am very emotional person, I act first and think later, and I do think (sweeping generalisation alert!!) that a lot of men are pragmatists, and get put off by "in your face" emotional stuff. I get the feeling you might be similar, kind of getting swept up in the feelings you have for this guy until it gets all of your emotional attention.....(tell me to piss off with my assumptions, I can take it!).

He is obviously a good man, it's probably from what you are writing that he cares for you at least as a friend, so maybe try and enjoy that for a while, without trying to push things along at your pace!

There's no way to know how he feels about anything unless you just come out with it and ask him, you know, matter of fact like! You can't tell me that you can plaster and take radiators off walls and all sorts and you're too scared to do some straight talking?!!

Your assumptions are spot on and I would never tell you to piss off! You've been so kind and helpful.

I probably was too straightforward in the past and I guess a lot of men aren't used to women taking the lead.

It's very hard when you just have no idea how normal women act, what you're meant to do etc. No one ever taught me.

The more I think about it the more convinced I am that he would have done something by now if he really cared. Standing next to me when builder was here, pretending to be my husband, doesn't count!

It's all too confusing and I'm not going to do anything at all. I shan't go round, shan't call him or text any more and I've deleted his number anyway and have no idea what it is. I'm going to walk away, and if he feels the urge to get in touch then he can do it. But I'm not going to keep throwing all these compliments and offers of babysitting and that sort of thing at him, like I have been doing.

I do need to step back from the situation and let it slide. My whole emotional energy has been diverted into thinking about him and it's silly when nothing might come of it.
anyway am off to do some more stuff to the house, in a dejected manner, because no matter how much I don't feel like doing it, it does need to be done.

Look, you took a chance. It still may pay off. Pride can ruin a lot of things (speaking from experience not saying this is you.)

I am sorry Ingrid, so sorry. I know it isn't all that simple but I think he would be a very lucky man if he did feel the same way. You are lovely and come across as a kind, funny, gentle lady. x

((hugs)) Ingrid, I still think you are someone very special, but not in a stalker way.

Hi Ingrid

I have read your whole thread and I am a little bit in love with your friend too. He sounds a delightful man but probably still hurting from his broken marriage.

WHile I understand your impatience to get things sorted out once and for all there is another way. Don't be impatient and say anything drastic, but continue the gentle friendship between you with your DC playing together.

When he is smarting less from whatever happened and looks around for someone to build a relationship with, there you are. He obviously likes you and isn't averse to hugging you and kissing you. He just isn't in the right place in his head for anything more yet.

Can you imagine the chat between him and his male friend when he goes out for that drink? "I really like Ingrid and her kids, she is just the sort of person I could imagine getting close to. She does her own plastering you know. But I'm not ready for that sort of thing yet. I hope she doesn't get snapped up by that builder bloke, he seems her type and he has a really big spirit level!"

Friend then pats his shoulder in a manly way and tells him to give it more time. If it is meant to happen then it will.

Have a good weekend, doesn't DIY make you feel good!

Hi Ingrid - hope you don't mind me de-lurking but I glimpsed at the thread last night and now have read it all.

I don't have any advice but I just want to say that you sound like a fantastic person - you're a great mum, a great neighbour, you can plaster!!!, you give people eggs!!!, your text messages are like little poems!!!, you can garden and you're kind, self-aware, compassionate, intelligent. And if this guy is as perfect and lovely as you say, the fact that he is friends with you speaks volumes.

So enough of the low self-esteem and painful self-analysis - you are fabulous and you deserve lots of luck and love.

I would step back from it for a while (maybe you'll meet lots of friendly tradesmen with their own large spirit levels while your building work is done) and put a little space between you - that's my only advice really.

Good luck

what Tondelayo said

You sound absolutely amazing! Be kind to yourself and go rock that DIY!

Oh god. you're MUCH too nice and you'll start me crying again in a minute!

Four, I think you're really wise. I mustn't let pride spoil it, so I will stay friendly, of course I will, it's tempting to lash out and say 'right, no more mrs nice person' but that will just wreck whatever is left.

All I can do is be a nice person and carry on smiling and being sensible wherever I'm actually able to, which I realise isn't often but I will try hard.

Whatever the truth is about Lover boy and whatever he feels in his heart, I can't honestly do anything more until he tells me, at least something to go on. So it's really in his court now.

I keep re-reading what I sent him last night (about being a twit and hope we can be friends) and it does come across as a really nice message, cheerful (more than I was feeling!) and so he doesn't need to be scared. I'm not angry with him or anything. I just feel stupid.

Will see whether he gets in touch before Tues. and go from there.
thanks again, so much, all of you...I'm not as great as you say, really I'm not, and my plastering leaves a lot to be desired but it is quite cathartic

I am so far from wise than I could be but thank you .

I really really hope it works out and in a year you are posting baby news .

Well, amazingly there was a phone call while I was asleep (really fed up, went to lie down, drifted orf) and phone was on silent so I missed it. He left a voicemail which gave nothing away, saying he was going to bring the kids round, so give him a shout. So it was only ten minutes later when I saw it and I called him but no answer, left a message saying that's fine. and a text to follow it up.

This was nearly an hour ago and he hasn't answered. I think I might just go and book myself in at the psychiatric unit next door, because that's where I'm going to end up at this rate.

What are the odds? I'm trying to work out what he will say.

3:1 Yes let's be friends and I'm really flattered but can I speak to your plumber.

10:1 What text? And can I please speak to your plumber? And your chippy.

100:1 Actually you're my ideal woman and I was about to ask you out you twit.

Place your bets! (would not be surprised if he doesn't even turn up, btw)

Well it was the first one, in the end. He was absolutely lovely and said that it hadn't occurred to him there was anything else going on, but friends is just fine

I'm a little bit gutted tbh, but he gave me a little hug and he was just very friendly and sweet. We ended up talking about why he is single, his love life since they broke up etc and that they did almost try again but he said it's definitely over.

I told him I wasn't used to nice men and found him very attractive, he seemed very smiley and chuffed about it. So it didn't scare him off. I think he actually really enjoys being fancied!

I'm not sure what to do, now. I suppose I had so much riding on the idea of kissing him and so on, and he didn't say 'you're a bit of an ugly bird' but of course my perception of it is that I'm just not up to scratch, for whatever reason. I'll need to work really hard to believe that I'm still OK as a person, enough for someone else nice to like me iyswim.

But for now at least we are closer than we were, we've talked about some more personal stuff, and been honest ,and that's worth having.

So that's the upshot of the thread and it could have been worse! Thanks again for all the support and help. I didn't tell him that about twenty interested women were awaiting the outcome, but it was tempting

Sorry it's not what you hoped for but at least you have a great friend.

You are a lovely person, remember that OK?

Also do you live in north London - I've just had a quote for plastering my house

LOL

We're in Kent. And you would need it done again after I'd finished.

De-lurking as well just to agree with all the posters who say that you sound lovely. Sorry you didn't get the response from him but, maybe with some time to think about it he may come round to the idea. But, don't dwell on that. He didn't run away and he didn't look scared. He looked all smiley - that's good.

Yes smiley is very good. Not entirely satisfying in terms of lustfulness on my part - the more he smiles the more I want to grab him and snog him! But it's good to have the answer and to have it all out in the open.

He is genuinely very nice to everyone so I think that's my lot, really, but I suppose you never know. It's bugging me now why he doesn't fancy me. I might ask for a constructive critique next time...from a bloke's point of view. He's had enough compliments from me to last a lifetime, I could see his head visibly swelling so I think I deserve some hints on that stuff.

He kept asking if I ever go out. He gets evenings to himself, I never do so evenings are off the list.

Anyway...one day maybe someone as nice as him will come along.

Thanks btw!!

Don't ask for a critique - no point. I mean I don't find Brad Pitt OR Johnny Depp attractive - doesn't mean they aren't.

I am with you on Brad. What is with that? Could live without JD as well tbh.

You speak wisely. But interested to know if men hate birds who can lay floors.

Or if I am doing my hair all wrong. It's an ideal opportunity, having a close male friend. Will also ask him to pass on any attractive single friends he has!

No to a critique as well. Have you really no-one who could babysit? Another mum?

Really sorry it didn't work out as you had hoped. But you have a good friend, and good friends are not that easy to come by.

Take a step back and put your heart away now, and enjoy being good mates.