You wait, don't you, for the man to make the first move?

[IngridBergmann]

If there is a first move going to be made, that is...!

And I really don't know. how do you know? No obvious moves have been made at all.

It feels like we are very close friends and we always laugh a lot and talk a lot, but then, this is someone who has a multitude of friends and family and is very socially easy going.

He could be like this with everyone. I don't know if he is just being friendly, or actually does like me but is really, really shy of doing anything about it.

We always hug when we say goodbye and there is a kiss on the cheek but nothing else yet and it's been a few weeks.

He did offer to lend me his spirit level and so I asked if he had a big one, then we both laughed and he said 'Oh yes, enORmous!'

See I could have just kissed him right then and there but I was too scared. If he was shocked it would be awful so I couldn't risk it.

What do you DO? Do you just wait? I think I might go mad. But I will be sensible.

He's just being friendly, isn't he.

Wonderful self-awareness there, Ingrid :)

Good to hear you benefited from counselling. As you doubtless realise, we can't deal with 'demons' by wrestling with them, only by getting to know them better ... and nobody else can fill that hole; we have to learn how to love ourselves. I feel strangely confident you will pick this up again and get some way further with it!

Thankyou, it is lovely to read stories from other women who have felt this way, it makes me feel I'm 'Ok' even if a bit flawed (well a lot, then!)

and especially those of you, Blinder, Herbaceous, who have gone on to get it right as it were. That's well encouraging!

I don't worship him, he's lovely but am now starting to see how me might not be right for me - the things I ignored earlier thinking he really identified with me, are now just differences between us, not things that 'he's prepared to overlook so I can too' iykwim - he's clearly not overlooking them, so I don't have to either!

He's lovely, but I don't feel impelled any more, that he is absolutely right, or anything like that now. He's just a cheeky bloke who probably is lapping up the attention and has a great deal to offer, but isn't for me. I'll just be his diy friend.

I should add that a really lovely man turned up with a kitchen cabinet today...I'd spent the day waiting while he had a flat tyre on the motorway, and when he finally got here he was heavenly! He asked if I had anyone indoors to help with the cupboard, as well...do you think he might be interested?

He was much more scruffy as well. He repairs agas. all in all a better bet...seriously, I can see now that there are other men out there. It's good. Everything's Ok.

Ingrid - I too entirely get where you're coming from. I too would have done things almost exactly as you did them (with more arm-touching and possibly 'accidental' leg touching)... and I too would be in this same position as you are now: looking at your next scruffy DIY man. Your friend is a friend - and while he might have been a bit attracted to you and it might not have all been in your head, everything works out more complicated... I've lost track of the amount of men I've flirted a bit with without really meaning it (some people are just flirts...) and also sometimes I can think I like someone, and change my mind soon afterwards... (while all the time, I'm personally not available). Have this guy as a friend and listen to the advice above about, for example, not looking overly-keen to the next one. And to working on your self-confidence. Even when men are overly-keen, it can be off-putting, I find... But bless you, I'd have been exactly the same as you x

Thanks, Ginger that's a really sweet post.

You've reminded me of a year in the past when I was, for some unknown reason, attractive to quite a few men. I was not available, I was in love with someone, but was giving off a vibe I think - and there was flirting, from me, which wasn't deliberate but I was on a roll and felt very attractive.
Someone was in love with me for the second time, but this time I could accept it! So I felt sublime.

I must have been asked out by about 20 men that year - some of them in the middle of the street. It was seriously weird. Great self confidence, and very happy though quite awkward at times, and I ended up having friends fall in love with me when I didn't want them to and I always felt awful having to say no.
So I sort of know what it is to be on the other side. Not sure what happened after that stage...I think I got pregnant and then interest subsided markedly. (not surprisingly).

It's a very strange place to be. And I've never been as confident since. But I think that's true for many women after having children.

Being asked out by 20 men in a year is a hell of a record for anyone, Ingrid! :)

yebbut that was ONE year and I didn't have kids, was much younger and wore leather trousers the entire time. (motorcycling every day!)

I think that helped It made up for the other 30 odd years of my life when NO one has asked me out! This is probably karma for that year isn't it.

Yes, you wait. Then see them get hit on by another women, but still you wait. They get engaged and eventually married, but don't reveal your feelings yet! After 3 or 4 children are born and grow up and have their own children there is a chance the other woman might die of old age. GET HIM ON THE REBOUND!

Ingrid you sound beautifully balanced now! I'm so happy!

I do feel more balanced, thanks. LOL at Tiggy it'll be a loooong wait...!

I didn't hear from him yesterday, but we thought to be generous and took round his present this afternoon before he got home, just with a note saying happy birthday from us all.

He turned up on the way home, not sure why. I was taking my sink out and on the blower to buildre wot is coming tomorrow. So asked builder if he wanted to talk to so and so and they had a nice conversation I think

then he admired my plastering so I played it down, and he asked my advice about his wall, and I gave him some cement. Then he buggered orf.

I had to ring a bit later as once sink was off, there was a large hole behind it and so I needed my cement back! but he was out with the kids so didn't get message for ages by which time I had patched it with something else (and tected to let him know). However he didn't get that text so turned up dutifully with cement. I then ran after him (was feeding ds2 so ds1 answered door) to give it back!

He wants to meet me tomorrow to give me the key to his house so - get this - I can go there with my builder and show him round the job he wants doing!!!!??! Cheeky much?!! (he didn't ask me about this before telling builder that's what he was going to do).

See I might as well be his wife at this rate. I think I have quite enough of the taking for granted, making arrangements around and sharing house keys, thankyou

very sweet to turn up with cement though. I do like him, as a friend. But it's all cool now, no longer in tears - far too busy flooding the cellar!!!

He wants to meet me tomorrow to give me the key to his house so - get this - I can go there with my builder and show him round the job he wants doing!!!!??! Cheeky much?!! (he didn't ask me about this before telling builder that's what he was going to do).

What did you say to this? Did you agree to this?

I hope there's not a part of you that thinks this is a good sign, that you're now getting all cosy and comfy and a real part of each other's lives, etc... Because all it says to me is that he is taking you for granted, thinks you'll do anything to help him, and have incredibly unbusy days so you'd be free to do this kind of stuff.

I really don't like hearing how much you contact him.

Why don't you have proper friends? You'd get EVERYTHING you needed from friendship. He wouldn't become the centre of your world if you had friends too. Please sot yourself out so you can have lovely friends in your life, they'll prove far more valuable than men. Plus, when you get a man, he'll lik the fact you have friends, he'll meet the lovely friends AND the friends will keep you busy so you won't be available at the drop of every hat.

I just figure that it's useful being someone's "key buddy". Maybe he went about it in a cheeky way, but now Ingrid can impose on him in the same way. ("Hey, here's my key. I'm going away for a week. Water the plants while I'm away") :)

Thanks, ginge, it is useful - and I quite like it.

Beautiful, well, it's complicated - I've never felt easy about having friends, only really had one special friend at a time, like a best pal, and not really felt comfortable in a crowd.

I'm also afraid that women won't like me (long story involving my mother) but that is changing now since I've made a lot of really nice friends on the school run, and some of them at least seem to like me. But I am always afraid of friendship, because I might not be able to give back what the other person gives me - I don't understand the dynamic, because I was brought up by socially isolated and awkward parents who barely had any friends themselves, my mother in particular didn't trust anyone.
So I didn't have anything to copy.

Anyway to update a bit, yesterday went fine, did the quote thing for him and then he called round to get the keys last night. Today we met in the morning, I brought him home, then he called round here to help me move some really heavy stuff I'd not manage myself (I asked him if he could, no problem).
Then we all walked back from school together, I took his kids home, while he did some work at his place, then he came to get them and offered to have mine tonight while I go to the mums night out, as he knows I never get an evening off.

That was lovely of him. It does go both ways and he isn't using me, he's being a good friend - we spent ages talking earlier.
I am comfortable in the friendship, it doesn't matter that I fancied him, of course i still think he's great but telling him took the pressure off, so we're free to be buddies like we were but without the tension and stress.
It feels weirdly inevitable that we talk or meet every day now.
Like it's been decided for us. And we had a lovely hug earlier and it's all fine, didn't even discuss relationships or love or anything. None of that is in the way.
I don't know how long it'll last but it's good atm. I'm not going out tonight as I've got a rotten cold but I said Id take his offer up another time