Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair, left us)

[Dee34]

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers :(

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
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Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... :( . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

The trouble with ridiculous women like this is that they never think it will happen to them. They actually believe that they somehow have superpowers that will prevent an unfaithful man wanting to pursue yet another romantic adventure with someone else.

They fall for all the hackneyed tales about an inattentive, child-obsessed wife and then they either run themselves ragged trying to be superwoman, or they naively think that when they have their own children, he will be different.

The only time a man like this becomes faithful is when he runs out of opportunities and when the well of idiotic women who might want him, has run dry.

You are doing just brilliantly. Well done.

DEE, I am sure he will regret his decision eventually and realise what he has lost. Unfortunately for him, it will be too late.

My H was like a stranger for the first four months. He idolised his children and couldnt bear to be apart from them then as soon as he left I had to almost force him to see them. I was so scared that he would eventually stop wanting to see them. He would make constant excuses as to why he had to leave early on Saturdays (the only full day he spent with them) and in the end I had to say to him, either spend the full day with them or don't bother coming at all. That seemed to bring him to his senses and also made me realise that I had control over the situation.

Since Xmas there has been a complete turn-around, H is always on time, in fact stays longer than he has to and never tries to leave early.

I echo WWIFN, please DO NOT blame yourself in any way for this. You are doing brilliantly (much better than I was at this stage). x

Bad day today........no interaction with ex, though am seriously tempted to - I want him to feel some of this pain and hurt whilst he is away on holiday. But I know deep down that no matter what I say, he just wont see what he has done or take responsibility for it or will just plead that 'he needs to be happy'.....

This time next week, I will be working full-time and it hurts like hell to know that today will be the last Monday in a long time of me doing simple, pleasurable things like putting DS down for a nap, taking him out, having breakfast at home, playing, laughing etc. I do appreciate that I was lucky to have had so much time with him as it was (had a years m/l, went back to work for 8 months before taking the ill-fated redundancy package) and that there are people in a worse off position than me, but it still sucks. I just keep thinking that I should never have left that job as I could have been working 3 days earning what I will now and still have 2 days a week with DS (which would be fantastic as and when we move to alternative weekend access). I really, really hate ex with a passion. How can he be so selfish and so self- absorbed? Why is he and OW allowed to dictate my life like this?
He sent a text message this morning asking how DS was doing today (he sent it at 9.40am!) and what we were up to - despite my text to him on Sat night saying phone once a day only and that I would fill him in on DS activities when he got back (not sure why I said that, though tbh, fully expect him to forget to ask anyway). Needless to say, have ignored it, but I am very, very tempted to send him one back telling him to f**k right off and give him a peice of what I am going through here, but I know it wont even touch the sides in terms of any guilt or shame......the very fact that he is contacting me whilst he is on holiday with her makes me feel sick......Since all this crap started, he has not taken one day off to spend with DS and yet spent all of NYE with her and now over there/somewhere with her and has fitted in our conversations about splitting up, selling house, DS, maintenance etc whenever he has an hour or so free between work calls.....such a joke....

I have debated whether I am doing the right thing working full-time and it does seem to have happened incredibly quickly (still waiting for job contracts to be sent through, but they are mad keen for someone to start asap, hence the rapid start date). My preference would have been part-time, but really, am starting to doubt whether I can trust ex on the whole maintenance side now, so feel that I have to do what I can for me and my son. I need to remember that I do need to be strong for the two of us now.

solost - I hope he does, one day. Most recently, he switched from 'oh, am confused', 'wish I hadn't done this' etc to 'I dont think I have lost anything. Will still have DS in my life' etc....Of course, I realise that he is saying these things to make me feel like crap and also self-justify his actions, but he is so self-absorbed.....dont think he can see past his (small) knob and OWs 'selfless' devotion to him and it......

WWIFN - thanks for the vote of confidence (in fact, thanks to everyone who has posted on this thread - your words and support and advice have been immense. I love MN!). Yes, can completely see how this would be the case. It must be as can only imagine what stories ex has told her about me and his utterly miserable life that would prompt her to call him 'an amazing person'...?! Dont worry, am not thinking too much about the content of said stories - realise that I will never really know unless she told me and have no intention of ever making contact with her. It just baffles me (a lot)....

Arggghhh - why am I even giving them headspace on my last proper Monday with DS (he is napping by the way!)? I dont want to be consumed with hate and anger..... :(

Counselling booked to start in a couple of weeks time.....

Dee - so sorry for what you are going through - i have read your posts and there is a lot of similarity with some of what has happened to me - i caught my H out on the same day - the 28 December and i think Fairygirls H leaft on the same day -and then he spent NYE in the local pub - with the OW. He also phones our DD a lot and texts her several times a day and then expects her and us to change our plans when he decides that he wanst to see her at the weekend- obviously when the OW is busy.

Self-absorbed is a good phrase but probably far too polite for the likes of them as they are selfish gits really.

You are doing really well - keep your chin up. Lots of useful advice from other people on here too. I dont think that i will be going for joint custody - i will need to discuss with my DD who is significantly older than your son at nearly 9 but i doubt whether we are moving towards her staying over 2 days a week - more likely an occasional overnighter - she has had sleep problems for a while and we had only just got these sorted when he buggered off. Since he left she has moved in with me and the dog. Lots of lovely cuddles and early nights. I will have to tackle this later on and will be redecorating her bedroom as an incentive but at the moment it is the only way i can get her to sleep.

devastatedofdorset - ah, yes, have had that type of comms from him in the past. He once sent me an email (first week of Feb) whilst he was at a sales conference abroad, lamenting how he was bored and what was I up to!!! Of course, my first instinct was to think 'ohh, he is missing me!' before I did a quick mental check and worked out that with the time difference, OW was probably still in bed as it was 3am in the morning where she is!!! Hope your situation works out for you and your DD and sorry to hear that her sleep problems have been triggered again - bloody, bloody men!

Yes, selfish gits it is then!

My big fear now is the whole custody thing. Ex has never had DS by himself for one whole night let alone a whole weekend or a night during the working week (if I have gone out for the evening, I have always rolled back home at sometime and invariably been the one to get up at the crack of dawn with DS in the morning), so worried about that aspect in terms of general care, though I do accept that he has to learn and I cannot and will not mother him (ex that is) any longer.....Then there is the aspect that this OW is coming here in what, around 1-2 months by latest reckoning, and she will be living with ex from day 1 of arriving. As I have told him a million times already, that is an intense mix as it is for any old couple to deal with, let alone the background to their relationship and that DS will be thrown into this nonsense. That is the scary part....and as DS is only 2.5, he cant choose for himself and legal advice says that unless ex has been violent or put DS at danger then cant stop him from having joint access!! My ideal scenario would be that he has DS 1 night a week and then daytimes at the weekends (and bring him back to me), but know that is a bit selfish as DS does need to see his Dad. Plus, when we first skirted talked about access, he had the cheek to say that he couldn't live with only seeing DS once a week and every other weekend as per my original suggestion.....Hmmm....which is why he has buggered off to wherever to be with her for 6 nights (and the countless nights away since Jan)??

DS does have sleep issues - not sure if they have been triggered by this or just general 2.5 year old issues. He was sleeping fine before all this happened, and since ex abandoned us over NYE, he constantly needs dummy, muzzy and his bunny (hadnt done before) and now needs me to hold his hand to go to sleep - can take up to 45mins some nights (again, was able to just put him down, leave him to sing/cry/talk to himself for 5 mins and he would be asleep, now, he cries out 'mummy, where are you?' and cries hard so I do go in and reassure him. Need to pull back on that at some point, but of course, ex is here one week, away the next etc, so guess DS is picking up on this?). He is also waking up in the night for about one hour and generally up for the day at around 5.30am (before, when he woke up at that time, he would play in his cotbed or babble/sing and eventually fall back asleep again....Reckon he is getting around 8 hours sleep a night which is pitiful for a 2 year old I think. He did sleep quite well (as in didn't wake up for 1 hour as usual) on the first night ex was away - could have been a coincidence or tiredness catching up, so not reading too much into this - was considering telling ex to see if it made him think about what he has done, but didnt as dont think he would have got 'it' anyway....and as someone else said, it would just mean that he could go back to his holiday with a bit less guilt weighing down his good mood....

As always, whenever I can hear ex droning on about DS being his priority, the fact that he is willing to put his and this woman's happiness and 'right' to be together first before DS safety or emotional wellbeing, makes me want to give him a good old slap (dont worry, I wont!)

aw go on, punch his lights out.

ds is definitely picking up on all the upset imo. YOu are devastated (though even that doesn't sum it up) and ds will be acutely aware of that on some level. I doubt that the main thing for him is that dad isn't around as much as usual - ds has been used to that, it is a regular occurence.

Been thinking about these sudden and intense 'love' affairs. They're not real (sorry to state the obvious) - they are both idiots to fall for that shit. Not only are they not real but they aren't harmless either. I cant speak for her as I don't really understand the female psyche too much in situations like this (except I understand dumb and stupid) but they will both be thinking they have met the 'perfect' man/woman - that is soooo off-kilter.

Not talking a lot of sense, sorry (and will probably get my post deleted for inciting violence) but I would like to ask how he was as a partner to you Dee. Did you do the lion's share of the housework/childcare, or did you share it moreorless equally?

When ex's ridiculous new (childless) wife came on the scene, she gushed into 'loving' my children -basically went from 0-60 on the loving mother front in a nanosecond. She was bizarre, an alarming woman. There's was also the love of the century apparently . Dee, I'd get out of the line of fire while you have the chance if I were you. I could tell you so much more (sorry to be mysterious) but suffice to say, get away from the ridiculous woman while you can. Go home to your folks and buy a house there - ok, London is expensive but I really would upset the fantasy about what they're planning to do when she gets here, right under your nose, forcing you to comply. Really, I really would. Have you got an offer on the house? Could you stay with your folks, or a relative, for an extended period?

smokingnuns - ohh, am intrigued....shall I pm you?!

On the partner front, I have been doing a lot of thinking, following the advice on here. I did everything and there was a massive sense of entitlement that he shouldn't have to do anything (or at least not much) once I quit work. Don't get me wrong, he did do the bath routine and took DS out to swimming and for bike rides (when I suggested it!), but I did everything else, except iron his work shirts (cant stand ironing shirts, but in my sad attempts to salvage our 'relationship' whilst he was in the US for NYE, I contacted an ironing service and had them all lined up for when he came back, figuring this could ease his stress a bit...... I do remember getting a lot of 'well, I have been working all day you know' nonsense in the last year, though he never had to even so much as take his post to the PO, suit to the dry cleaner, select birthday gifts or buy birthday/xmas cards for anyone other than me and his parents. I booked and arranged all our holidays. All he ever had to do was pack his own suitcase and check directions (though I would still be the one to check for stop-offs on the way etc). He was also quite lazy around the house, the type that would take a clean glass from the dishwasher for a drink and then not bother to empty the rest of the load; walk over soiled nappies right by the front door without putting them out etc. I do understand that a LOT of blokes are like that and I guess I didn't mind, but now that I am looking back on our relationship and him, there were a lot of flaws that I was just happy to put up with for the sake of peace and quiet (oh and getting things done!).

I have been mightily worried about the fact that they will be living nearby, esp as our town is not even that big; its not big enough for the two of us (meaning me and him), let alone OW who will no doubt have some sense of entitlement (to who knows what...) given her many sacrifices to be with ex. When I raised this to him last week before he went, he said that he and OW would be moving to a nearby village - still not 100% sure about that, and who knows, she could be giving him some crap about moving away (and he, her) and then do something completely different. He also said, don't worry, he wouldn't leave me and DS in a 1 bed bedsit whilst he shacked up in a 10 bed mansion with OW (no, no idea where that came from either, but he has said it twice now and also very kindly told me that when this all started, he was talking to his PITA dad and told him the same. Also, quite weird, he has also told me how much the OW will be earning once she comes here - I didn't ask, but had said I was worried they would be on a massive joint income with joint bills and I would be on my own when he was trying to wheddle out of any maintenance bar what the CSA advise. This was all before my first post on this thread and I have since taken up advice of uttering 'not interested' when it comes to their affairs). Our town is quite good for schools and with job and assuming ex gives a fair maintenance and fingers crossed a good share of equity (as in what the house sells for, I will defo be getting 50% as joint owners), I should be able to get a reasonable standard of accommodation for myself and DS. I also think that with this job, I should be able to transfer to a different location if I wanted to at some point in the future.

We did have one offer on the house, but it was 20k less than asking price, which works out to be about 5%. We initially rejected it as it was first offer and house had only been on for 2 days or so, but I am thinking that it is not such a bad offer now, as really, really want to move on and out of this house and away! Ex is sitting tight though - bit of a muppet really as could take ages to sell this place!! He did suggest (day after he came back from his NYE jolly!) that he could buy out my share of the equity.....told him no chance as still have emotional attachment to this house and cant bear the thought of him shacking up with OW here and DS toddling around from his bedroom and jumping into their bed in our bedroom. I know its only bricks and mortars, but I do have an over-active imagination at times .

Dont want to shout from the rooftops too soon, but have been feeling quite positive the last couple of days (despite my other thread). 'Positive' in that I am actively not thinking about him and her and also putting my game face on whenever I have had to speak to him (which hasn't been that much as took everyones advice and told him to cut the calls). Took reading over this thread again and also speaking to someone who is into healing and stuff to make me think about the energy and time I have spent and spending imagining their perfect holiday and mighty plans for life-long happiness . All the good advice you have all taken the trouble to post is starting to sink in.....I also don't want my DS to pick up any bad vibes or anger from me, so want to change for him as well. Don't get me wrong, I am still massively angry with ex and cant stand the bones of him and OW, but, I do realise that he is in my past now, I no longer have any influence on him (expect in a negative way if you look at the things he has said - haven't posted half the really crap stuff he said, esp at the beginning of this saga - did I mention that when he first gave me the 'I dont love you' spiel before he flew off into the sunset for his NYE jolly and before I knew there was someone else, I (in my shocked state of course) was literally begging him to change his mind, he turned around and snapped, 'I have no desire for you - I am dead from the waist down with you!!'.......reinforces the thoughts of WWIFN and others that this is all about a new sex adventure with a dash of romance thrown in).

Anyway, he is back this afternoon so steeling myself to stay strong and detached when we are f2f. He phoned this morning and I missed the first call and got a message on the machine asking to speak to DS and also just checking to see how I was?? Know he is playing some mind games and not gonna fall for it again. Last time he came back from the US (ill fated NYE trip), he phoned from the airport and gushed, 'oh, how are you doing? I'm really looking forward to seeing you' nonsense, then promptly walked through the door and said 'no, still don't love you, sorry').

Wish me luck ladies (and men!)

Lumme - that was a long post!

On the partner front - just before xmas, he was quite happy (at the time) for me to spend my evenings writing out cards for all his extended family and friends for when we went to his parents for the ill-fated xmas trip. I must have written god knows how many.....when I called him up on this (as in, how could you have been planning what you were planning and having an affair and treating me like a fool), he said 'oh well, you didn't have to do it!'. Ditto for when I was running around buying pressies for his nephews (he would have just given them cash - they are toddlers also).

Dee you are doing so well - keep it up and roll when the punches hit and the inevitable bad albeit less of them moments arrive.

Today started out Ok DD and i are going away on saturday and we are looking forward to time away but i have already seen the OW slapper twice today - once at school and once on the way to work and tbh it is really hard seeing such a lot of her. DD is also having to interact much more with the OWs children through school and clubs. So advice from others about moving and your feelings are very valid.

i have also said - or rather texted as this appears to be the preferred style of communication from my H that if he had any decency he would keep a low profile as it is not fair and he has left the village and moved 5 miles away because i cant because of DD and disturbing her even more. But hey like all the other selfish people - men and women -who put their families through this type of thing - they are thinking with a different part of their anatomy.

You are doing so well i admire you and good luck for your meeting later today. As others would say - detach, detach, detach!

Gosh Dee you are doing so much better than I am, am taking inspiration from your positivity. So much of what you have written resonates hugely. Very short version of my story is that my DH left me when son was 2.5 (August), to me out of the blue as we were a week into IVF (having lost two babies in the previous year - one ecoptic, one ended pregnancy due to chromosome abnormalities). Further complicated by fact I moved to Australia when 7 months pregnant(he is Australian) and he is now forcing me (he can legally) to stay here until DS is 18.

He says no-one else involved but the script is the same. It is my fault, I should have seen he was unhappy, our son will be happier as his Dad will be happier, the change in behaviour in our son as he struggles to comprehend and is left with no live in father and a mother who is now working and stressed and on her knees with unhappinesss blah blah.

Like you I get consumed with rage and just the sheer sense of 'unfairness' that someone else can just decide that my life will change in all its facets (have to go back to work in country never worked in, gave up big corporate career to be SAHM, used ALL of my savings to buy house, buy furniture, fund reonovations,can't see friends and family, have to be single parent)whilst he gets everything he wants and he has the time to invest in a hugely high paying job (of which we will see barely anything). I know I have to focus on what I can change/influence and let go of this sense of injustice but I honestly loved him and though he loved me so it is just such a shock. And I am heartbroken for my son.

Anyway, not to hijack but just to wish you well and will try and borrow some of your stregnth.

Wow Dee you are doing so well. Just ignore any personal texts/questions. Reply to the ones you need to regarging your son and keep it at that.

Is it worth going back to the estate agent and seeing if the offer is still on the table? I don't know how your house is priced but only a 5% drop that fast seems really good in today's market!

Sell it to your ex as you being able to seperate your finances much faster than you may be waiting months if you don't get any more offers and he can go buy with OW that much sooner.... If it is all good for him he will agree faster than if you are doing it for 'your benefit'.

Don't be surprised if you do have a wobble or two it will be perfectly naturally you are still processing and dealing with a huge betrayal.

Xales - good idea! Yep, he will defo poo-poo any idea if he thinks it will benefit me in any way, but turning it around to allowing him his long wanted freedom and ties to me might just swing it.....will give him a few days though. Today is his first day back after 6 nights in the arms of OW, so am sure he is going to lording it around and prepared to give me aggro...though, he could be completely different and be all nice as she has made him in a nice mood (she is Ms. Wonderful after all) and he may be on his best behaviour so he can report nice things back to her (see below for my thinkings on this)? Who knows - wont indulge any negative fantasies though!!

devastaedofdorset - I dont know how I would cope if I had to do the whole school and kids mixing thing. I am bricking it just thinking about bumping into them in town on a Saturday afternoon when she arrives here. They are completely and utterly selfish - it does make you wonder how they can sleep at night and look at themselves in the mirror....I did ask ex how could he sleep at night once and he said, 'its not easy for me you know' (one of his standard lines) and that he has trouble sleeping. Guess thats what having a long distance (for now) relationship with a woman in a country 8 hours behind you will do to your schedule I guess...I find it hard to believe that he is sitting up thinking of the destruction he has caused or about anything other than his own selfish ends....

Downunderdolly - sorry to hear that you are in the same boat.... and in such similar circumstances, though it must be ever so hard to be away in a foreign country. I really hope that there isn't an OW involved, but I guess he would have revealed this by now? It is really hard, and I am going through this stage by stage, but we will get there! I think what has helped me has been to take on the advice of the lovely folk on here and friends and family and detach, think about DS and stop wasting my time thinking about ex and OW. He has made his choice and nothing that I say or do will change that. I have also been thinking about our relationship and what was missing (as advised by some people on here) which has helped me to see through some of the mist. I have also been keeping a note of every negative and hurtful thing he has said or done to me since this sorry saga started and although it was painful at first to read back on it, it has helped me when I have thought that I would crumble and beg him to come back. I did love him, still do probably, but I also dont like him very much (should I say hate?!). This is the man who whilst on his shagging holiday at NYE, said to our son (remember 2.5 years old) on the phone, 'you are the man of the house now'!! He also delighted in telling me about a film he had watched on the flight about a single woman with a young son and how she goes about dating again and how I should watch it (and he was supposedly out there to think about 'us' and our problems?!). We will get stronger - I think we need to just take it day by day.....

I had to send him a text earlier today to ask him to babysit DS on Sat night before he goes and books anything else in. He replied back, 'fine, you deserve some time to yourself'!! What the frig has happened to him? Unfortunately, he also said that he would be off to London on Sunday for some corporate event/hosting, so would be taking a/l next Friday (not this one of course) to spend with him. Am guessing he is only taking a/l as I called him up on this last week when I found out he was taking a/l to fly off to the US and was away for 6 nights......guess its good for DS at least, but I wonder if he would have been booking a/l if I hadn't had said anything.....??

Oh, guess who has just pulled up?!

Good luck Dee, detach, let him get on with his fantasy.

oh gawd - hope it's going/went well. It's early days, you've had a break from him, which is amazing for steadying your gait iyswim.

Wondering about the phrase 'babysitting'. He wouldn't be babysitting, ds is his. He wouldn't be 'helping you out', he would be sharing the responsibility. You don't want ex thinking all domestic responsibilities are yours eh? Wouldn't want you to end up an unpaid domestic servant, second rate, women's work..

As for he 'won't leave you in penury' - it's not up to him, it's up to the law and he essentially has no say in that. I'm concerned that you are making contingency plans (re working full-time) which don't suit you or ds in order to protect yourself financially, when there is no need iyswim - your joint 'income' was not a low income. You won't be floating your own boat financially, the law ensures that you and ds are well cared-for financially, commensurate with monies in the 'marriage' (you were engaged which shows commitment and intent - legally at least!). In my situation the law strongly promoted me (and dc) keeping the house because it was dc's home. Ex has to wait for the equity until youngest finishes his degree. YOu may or may not want to stay in the same house but it's possible you can (and btw you don't have an overactive imagination to feel repugnance at the idea of ex moving OW into the 'marital' home). But as you know I would advise you get out of the situation altogether to avoid being a walk-on in their fantasy, which they will force you to be (as he has already), using ds as currency. What are your local links? Are they 'better' than links elsewhere? You may need to look at why you moved where you are - for what reasons - and see if those reasons still apply. YOu need to be where you can recover - not a short process - not somewhere where the wound is constantly reopened as you are forced to play your part in their play without a murmur, of protest or grief.

I am not being mysterious in order to worry you - on the contrary, I don't want to alarm you but do want to warn you. ex's wife has made life extremely difficult in her bid to prove to the perfect man that she was the perfect woman, which included her bid to be my children's mother. To my astonishment she was not only in direct competition with me, she staged a coup (ex her chief general). I'm sorry to say she has been successful on many levels and I wish I had been more canny at the start. My story may be extreme (and it's not over yet!) but I recognise some of the things you are describing and wouldn't take the chance if I were in your position. The window is open to move as ds is pre-school age but once he is in school you are pretty much stuck. School-age kids find relocation difficult with two parents but it's almost impossible with one ime, though there are exceptions of course. I appreciate that we don't know the ins and outs of where you are living or why, what's in it for you, but please do think about what you stand to gain by staying.

Sorry I'm labouring the point

Good point Smokingnuns, my DH's OW had designs on my DC too - in fact she wanted my life ! Fortunately after six weeks of living with her, my DH "came to his senses" only after she suggested that I needed to be arrested (I did hit him for a vile comment he made to me for which he has since apologized and admitted he deserved the pummelling I gave him) - so my DC would not only have suffered the trauma of their dad walking out on them but their mother being arrested - all ok in her eyes.

Dee keep your cards close to your chest and get good legal advice.

Take good care of yourself - it's a truly horrible time and even 2 years down the line and with a DH who has done a complete 360 degree turn around in behaviours etc, I still have moments of complete and utter horror and sadness at what he did then (some of it has been especially hard to forgive and I most certainly will never forget ).

smokingnuns & countingto10 - lordy, you have just reminded me of a grim incident early on.....shortly after finding out about OW, her being in the US etc, I said to ex that he could only contact her from his car and not from the house as he was still living in the family home (as in calling her - of course, I couldn't police his text messages though I do sometimes think I can hear that constant pinging even now and he has moved out!).....Anyway, he agreed and said, yep, fine. Within a week of agreeing, I caught him calling her from his office! In the evening! Whilst I was walking around the house doing laundry etc (wasnt at the door, but heard some dodgy sounding laughing coming from the room). Anyway, barged in, she was of course on the other end, so I tried to grab the phone calling her all sorts. Ex of course, being the gallant gent he his, grabbed the phone and hung up on her. Proceeded to tell me it was his mum and stormed off to his room. I followed and found him on his mobile phone to her! I tried to grab that phone, and he stormed off out of the house. I calmed down a bit and called him to come back - mainly as DS was up and down and a bit confused with ex being here one day and not the next (this was in the early days). He first said no and I said to him to stop being such an idiot (or words to those effect!). He came back in and the first thing he said to me was, '(OW) says that I have to phone her every 15 mins or she will call the police'!! Now, this woman lives in ANOTHER COUNTRY!! Ex weighs something like 17 stone (about 5ft 9in on a good day). I was flabbergasted, esp as I have never, ever laid a finger on him in all 11 years and, hey, I think I had a right to be a teeny bit upset.....BUT, I am now beginning to wonder about this OW and her emotional welfare, esp as she is the type to just up and move country for someone she barely knows......

Part of me thinks, he wouldn't let her do that to me, but of course, the evidence of his behaviour and loyalty scream otherwise....Oh, no, am tempted to call him now and get some reassurance from him on this (but know I wont get any, so wont!!)

HELP!

sorry - 'to her', meaning the OW, he wasn't really on the phone to his mum....

Dee - your post talking about your positive thoughts is really amazing, it is so hard in a crisis to find the emotional space to really look at things with a bit of perspective, and you are doing that. It's very inspirational.

As you say - it can be easy to slip into panic mode and focus on losing your partner and how painful that is, when there are usually faults and failings in your partner that have caused unhappiness for a long time.

re. the OW. I think you have to strike a balance - which is hard - between being sensibly prepared to protect yourself from bad behaviour from the two of them - and also staying calm and only dealing with things when they actually happen.

YOu must not let fear dominate your thinking. Stay in that lovely positive state you were in. Unfortunately, you can't control who is your son's carer - whatever the future - we can't pick step parents for our children. If not her, it could be someone else one day, so you just have to roll with it.

What is the evidence - that this man, who is a liar and incredibly selfish, is telling you he 'has to' call her or she will be worried for him. Firstly - he could be lying. It's OUTRAGEOUS of him to tell you that, even if it's true.

You don't know the lies he has spun about you remember. Presumably he told her your relationshp is completely dead - she may have no idea you were still together - perhaps she thought you were mad, simply because of what he told her.

I know how important this woman is, when she is going to have contact with your child, but you have to cross bridges when you get to them, not before.

Be calm and be prepared, I think smokings advice is good - do think about moving if it's a small place, I think that sounds like a very stressful situation.

I agree - re. babysitting btw. he's not babysitting - it's his child and at the moment you are doing all the childcare.

Hard as it is, it will be easier if you can get on with him and this woman, if she is going to stick around. Be the bigger person and don't let him see you upset again - don't call him!

If you stay calm with him and don't show emotion it will make this ongoing situation easier in the long run.

Deep breath.........

Have had my dinner now (DS is taking ages to sleep and posted whilst my pasta boiled! Another plus of ex leaving - can eat more veggie stuff/fish/food I like!). And calmed down a bit (curse this over-active imagination!).

waterrat - yep, you are right, I do need to cross certain bridges when I come to them and of course, if I spend all my time thinking that the worst will happen, I cant be too shocked if that does happen to be the case, IYSWIM?! So, yes, I shouldn't be focusing on them now, OR in the future.......BUT, I do take smokingnuns and countingto10's advice on board. In terms of town etc, I think I could avoid seeing them, but I think I would spend a good few weeks making sure that I didn't spot them (that sounds a bit crazy right?) before I could feel comfortable. Where ex is living right now is totally unacceptable. He is about 5 mins walk away (and at a steady - not fast - pace), or around 1 mins drive away. Far too close for comfort which is why I couldn't believe that he didn't tell me she was here a few weeks ago. He agrees and says that he is going to move once she gets here......But again, its the whole trust thing and accepting that he has any say in the matter! As has been said, who knows what he has told her about me and our relationship? Yes, fear will be my downfall so need to ditch it!

In terms of phoning her every 15 mins, I told him that was totally unacceptable if we were going to have a proper adult discussion. He then proceeded to send her a text or message, but yes, you are right, he could well have been lying....

This evening went well in terms of interaction with him. Kept out of the way in dining room (He picked up DS from nursery today as surprise, surprise, he is off early on business tomorrow and cant do morning or afternoon runs and is back late). Kept nice and calm, wasn't even tempted to needle him about his weekend or where he was or what he got up to. It really did feel as if I didn't care - surely, this cant last?! I did mention the house issue only after he mentioned it first. I suggested we revisit the offer made and talked about percentages and how it would be good to move on for both of us. He looked a bit put out and said something like 'Oh, you've changed on the house. So you're really keen to move then?'..Err, yep! He did get a bit arsey with me for the rest of the evening (cutting little comments etc), but just ignored them!

Also, just had a thought - as he is away on Sunday, this is actually a good thing as means that DS and I have a day to ourselves and its the day before I start work, so a double bonus!

PS: smokingnuns, sorry to hear about what you are going through....sounds awful. Hope it all gets better soon.

Hmmmm.....

Ex has done an about turn on the house! He called this morning to speak to DS on his travels and I said I wanted to speak to the estate agent and see about that initial offer and he said, 'umm, yeah, okay'! Going to get on to them asap before he changes his mind.

He also muttered something along the lines of 'oh and let me know if you would like me to come round this evening after I get back at x o'clock to help out etc'? (I say muttered, but it was in a caring, gentle voice - noticed the difference compared to other times we have spoken on the phone) Eh? Has a week in the arms of the OW changed him a bit? Or is he picking up on my detachment and so now speaking with a bit of mutual 'respect'? Have had lots of 'how are you?' on the phone when he calls (did it again this morning - asks after speaking to DS. I invariably just sigh, humppf, or utter 'fine').

Dont want to read into anything, but is this the workings of a romantic idiot still? Or should I be upping my guard even more???

Or should I not really be bothered?!

I think it's a reaction to your own detachment and calm. It's interesting that in situations where we feel that we are being treated unkindly, I know the tendency (and it's what I've often done) is to become more and more upset, hoping to get through to the other person how hurt we are. We want them to know - and we feel very out of control ourselves.

But actually all that does is encourage a spiral of unpleasentness - and it gives the person who has hurt us a justification to keep being cold/ avoid us.

I noticed the same on Solosts page and thought it interesting - when she does what Mumsnet suggests and is calm and detached, she actually gets better treatment back.

It's the old zen buddhist thing - you can change the dynamic of a situation simply by changing yourself/ your own behaviour.

When you stop giving energy to the negative cycle, it really does change it.

I also think that in part, behaviour creates reality. If you decide that you will behave AS IF you are calm and detached, that will become a reality, partly from yourself and partly because your partner will respond.

he is still an arse, but you are probably reaping amazing spiritual benefits from your wonderfully spiritually enhanced behaviour!

and yes, you will have to redouble your guard, because seeing a calmer version of him will probably make you suddenly feel warmer towards him.

Basically - the answer is - be kind and calm however hyou feel inside - and life will definitely be easier. It might be hard when she turns up - but it will be even more important then that you do nothing but smile and be the bigger person.

if you have slightly hippyish leanings, I would recommend a very good book called 'there is a spiritual solution to every problem, by wayne dyer. very good for situations like this.

www.amazon.com/Theres-Spiritual-Solution-Every-Problem/dp/0060192305

Dee up your guard even more.

Chances are he is completely in love with OW and happy from a week of shagging.

But......

He is sensing that you are detaching/not caring as much and he can't have that. You have to be there desperately wanting him back even though he doesn't want you. You are not allowed to move on. Just in case things do go pear shape with OW. Oh and because he is soooo awesome and how could you ever move on?

So he is playing nicely nicely now just to keep you stringing along. He is still the uncaring man who is 'dead from the waist down for you'.

It is just part of his game and manipulation.

These guys think their other halves are idiots. He needs to feel your unhappiness so that he has a good reason for leaving you.

Without you giving him 'grief', he has nothing to go on when slagging you off to OW. The more reasonable you are and the less personality you show to him, the more it will unsettle him.

You'll never know what goes on between the two of them and that little set up can't be a bowl of cherries all the time. Just make sure that you have moved sufficiently away from him so that he cannot draw you back into his game. They've only known each other a short time and its only had the gloss of romantic assignations. I think we can all work out the next chapter.

He'll be subconsciously keeping both options open so your detatchment will be chipping away at his confidence.

From your posts, it is clear that you are smarter than him and with some support can always be a step ahead of him. You don't need to follow his script. Create your own and leave him in your wake.